NOLA 2013 media

[Dulaney]

The mystery behind my blown engine is partly solved. Harry's lap timer lost my video, but I was able to use a program called iExplore to find it inside my iphone. Video is uploading now, should be ready in a couple hours.
http://youtu.be/N09b22Wbim0
In the video, you can see the oil pressure bouncing all over (gauge is on far left), and falling to near zero in the corners. Somehow, it was near normal everytime I glanced at it. The last time down the straight, it was near zero, and I should've seen it. Especially since I had noticed it seemed down on power. I have a low oil pressure light, but the sensor busted a while back, and I plugged it (I'm super-dumb).

I figure it's worth the embarassment if I can help someone else not repeat it. Buy and install a low oil light - they're cheap!
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjustable-Oil-Pressure-Warning-Light-Kits,7805.html

No clue what caused the fluctuating oil pressure. The water temps never seemed to rise, which I find odd.

[Dulaney]

There was someone on track that's even more dumb than I. Many of us saw this genius not wearing his firesuit with the Porsche on fire in the paddock, but here is that same individual on-track without it. Some fire-crew!
1225

[Pranav]

When I saw you pulled over, I felt the need to pull over as well to keep you company! About to do a leakdown and cooling pressure test tonight to figure out why I overheat so much! My cooling system has been fine until TWS, but repeated mistakes (not ducting the radiator soon enough, not bleeding/filling properly multiple times) may have finally taken its toll. My money is on a warped head...

[MikeS]

Sounds like we missed quite a weekend.

[Dulaney]

When I saw you pulled over, I felt the need to pull over as well to keep you company! About to do a leakdown and cooling pressure test tonight to figure out why I overheat so much! My cooling system has been fine until TWS, but repeated mistakes (not ducting the radiator soon enough, not bleeding/filling properly multiple times) may have finally taken its toll. My money is on a warped head...

LS or LT? I wish the LS had a bleeder screw like the LT. It's a PITA.

I believe the CMC rules allow a 1" extension to the airdam just below the radiator. Highly recommended, if you keep the bottom feeder setup (may be required, I don't know).

[cobra132]

That is a sick sound when a motor lets go. Sad to see Jim. Get that thang fixed for Hallett.

[Dulaney]

Trying my best to have it Hallet ready. I lack about an hour to have it out of the car.
Gonna try HKE in Houston, who built Patterson's motor.

[BryanL]

That is a sick sound when a motor lets go. Sad to see Jim. Get that thang fixed for Hallett.

Yeah I listened to it a few times-sounded like he was already off track and picking up lots of rocks in the marbles.

Sorry to hear you blew a motor. What is the parts rundown on what you are running now? Stock cam/tune? How much rpm do you turn? Your oil pressure was all over the map and not just in corners-was that a warning for a spun bearing? You running an accusump or racing baffle? Let me know what the failure was when you tear it down. Good idea to switch and try HKE. You could find a low mileage LS6 (corvetteforum) but then I still think you will spend the same amount on forged short block from HKE especially if you upgraded the LS6 with rod bolts, timing chain, oil pump, LS7 lifters. Also, what kind of oil have you been running in your LS?

[marshall_mosty]

My videos are pretty tame and the only thing you see in mine is the water temp slowly approaching (and passing) 250... Oil temps then go north of 300. The motor seemed a bit down on power when I pulled it in to find #4's exhaust valve hung open and the pushrod turned into an "S"... The motor will come out tonight and back to the builder for diagnosis.

[AI#97]

sucks to hear about the motor Jim. LS6 crate motor in Misty's car is going on 6 years old! Guess I should start looking for LS3's just in case!

[Pranav]

The one race (three) where I had full footage. I think I'm doing a lot better than my debut at Cresson, but still got a lot of work (seat time) to do...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bNXO69NKSEQ

[Dulaney]

Bryan,
Previous block was mostly stock, with rebuild/machining. New bearings, upgraded lifters and pushrods. Double valve springs. ARP rod bolts. Set rev limiter at 6700 (I think).
Ran Mobil one 40 weight with Improved Racing's baffle, Melling high volume high pressure pump. No accusump. 340/360 HP/TQ, custom de-tune. It was put in for Cresson last year (after previous motor only lasted half a day at Houston). So, a year and a couple months.
Took it partly apart tonight and found three broken rods, all on driver side. Dinged up the head enough that I don't want to use it. Don't know if crank is salvageable, didn't go that far I to the tear-down. Rods broke in the center. Wrist pins were still in broken part, and caps were still on crank.

New engine will still be LS1 but a newer '01 block, stock heads. Z06 cam to try to move power band higher. Hoping it'll be able to rev to 7, and the torque won't call flat at 5400 like previous.
Forged pistons and rods. Accusump, oil cooler. Ls3 intake valves, cut to length. And a low pressure switch!
HKE has been very helpful in making recommendations. Driving to Houston tomorrow to drop it off.
Hoping I can detune it enough for my weight (3180 with 75# ballast). I'd like to pull a other 50# out of the car too

[Dulaney]

The one race (three) where I had full footage. I think I'm doing a lot better than my debut at Cresson, but still got a lot of work (seat time) to do...

You shoulda downshifted for turns 1/2. RPM's were way too low. Gotta stay in power band. Fortunately, we have yearly dynos, so you know where this is.
saw some axle hop in braking for 3. I've struggled with this for ages, and my current pads have made it worse.
Get a proportioning valve if you don't have one to dial out rear brakes, and switch to a cheaper/less aggressive rear pad.
I have a decoupled torque arm, but still hop

[Pranav]

Yeah, I've got a prop valve but havent even dialed it far back just yet; not getting any hop under straight up braking, only when downshifting because I'm not heel-toe-ing and slamming it down into 3. the problem becomes worse later into the sessions as the tires get hotter and I get more fatigued/less focused...

[Casey_SS]

Bryan,
Rods broke in the center. Wrist pins were still in broken part, and caps were still on crank.

Do the big ends of the rods still spin freely on the crank? From what I've read about oil starvation failures, usually the rod bearings micro-weld themselves to the crank and the force of the spinning crank is what breaks the rod(s).

Pretty common failure for the #7 rod in stock LT1s which is part of the reason most builders loosen up the bearing clearances a bit. Factory spec is .0010 - .0030 and GM built them on the tight side to make adequate pressure with 5w-30 oil (better gas mileage / emissions). Race builds are typically .0025 - .0035 and require 20/50 minimum for decent pressure at temps over 220ish. No clue how this compares to LS1s but probably close? I would definitely ask and make sure your builder has a good answer :)

[Casey_SS]

Jim - I just re-read your post and saw you mention Mobil 1. Oil is a touchy subject for some folks but I've been privy to the details of 6 different short-block failures on road courses now and only one of them WASN'T running Mobil 1 at the time of failure. Coincidence? Dunno. The kicker for me was helping a friend play with setup at a DE a few years ago. First session he came in after only 3 laps with ~5psi oil pressure. He went out with ~60psi. Found out it was Mobile 1 so I convinced him to drain and refill with a different brand and he had good oil pressure the rest of the weekend and the last 3 years or so. That was proof enough for me. The conclusions I've drawn may or may not be fair but I've decided friends don't let friends race with Mobil 1.

[Suck fumes]

Agreed! Mobil 1 sucks! Even my dad 30 years ago had issues with Mobil 1 and he quit using it due to the same reasons haha. That's why I'm puzzled when people say "I don't waste money on expensive oil, I just buy Walmart off the shelf oil!" Really????? Well I guess if you plan on rebuilding your motor once a year then why does it matter right? You get what you pay for when it comes to oil. I've tested numerous brands of all price ranges and have seen a LOT of pressure ranges. The most important test is to see how much oil pressure you have right after you come off track when it's hot and idling. If it's less than 10psi, change to a diff brand or build the motor tighter.

[ShadowBolt]

After we broke the non hardened steel oil pump gears in the aluminum block engine I built a few years ago I purchased a aftermarket temp and oil pressure gauge. I also bought the piggyback oil pressure light that sits on the pressure gauge. Also the gauge has an alarm in it. If I had had this installed at Houston two years ago all I woulod have had to do is replace the oil pump and we would still be running that engine. Not spending the money on the hardened steel gears was really dumb after I had spent so much on building the engine but at least if something like that happens again the light and horn will go off and give me a chance to save it.

http://prosportgauges.com/premium-external-warning-light.aspx

http://prosportgauges.com/amber-white-premium-oil-pressure-gauge-1.aspx

Jerry

[Pranav]

I'm fortunate to have the fully programmable dash, does warning lights and hooks up to an external buzzer. So far I've had no oil pressure issues running mobil 1 20w50 (never gets below 15-20 when hot), but I am changing it out every weekend because I am running in the 280*+ range. Plan is to finally get a good oil cooler in there by hallet, so what oil do you guys recommend I run?

[Dulaney]

Reaching through the bore from the top, I can't get the rods to turn. They're pretty mangled though, and are possibly under a bind. I don't have the oil pan off, to limit the mess in the back of my truck. So, I can't put a whole lot of force on them.

Donovan's been giving me crap for Mobil 1, too. I've used it in my street cars for hundreds of thousands of miles, but I guess this is different.
He's ordering me a case of better oil. HKE recommended 20w50

[Suck fumes]

20w50 is like syrup. Not sure that you would need something that thick.

Pranav get a Setrab oil cooler-$250. Get the one rated for 300hp. My oil temp never gets over 220.

[ShadowBolt]

20w50 is like syrup. Not sure that you would need something that thick.

Pranav get a Setrab oil cooler-$250. Get the one rated for 300hp. My oil temp never gets over 220.

Our mod motors run really cool. I run the stock two row radiator and while some were having trouble at NOLA my water never got over 190 degrees. Most of the mod motor builders say to run 0W20 or 5W20. I have been running the Valvoline racing oil because it has very High zinc/phosphorus. They don't make this in a 5W anything so I run 10W30 and so far it's been okay. At the end of a race the pressure will be around 20 PSI at 1000 RPM's. I guess I should hook up a cooler. I already have one just never installed it on this car.

http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/full-synthetic-motor-oil/8

I'm not sure how we can really know what oil is the best (everyone thinks their iol is the best). When I worked in a shop the dirtiest engines I ever saw were running Pennzoil and the cleanest ran Havolene. This was way before synthetic oil was around.

JJ

[Pranav]

I mispoke, I meant 15w50. Yeah the Setrab or this really good cooler made by Derale are on the list. Planning on a fan for it too.

[Suck fumes]

In spec Miata guys used to get lab tests done on their used oil to find the "optimal oil". Believe it or not pennzoil platinum synthetic was actually the most protective! I run royal purple 5w20 and have never had an issue.

[Suck fumes]

Do u run a mech or elect gauge? Pretty crazy that your car stays at 190 the whole race! I would think running with other cars it would get higher at times?

[Pranav]

I may go with this cooler if I can make it fit (or bigger if theres room):
http://www.amazon.com/Derale-52510-Stacked-Plate-Cooler/dp/B004XOR0LQ

I'm thinking of this for an oil filter sandwich adapter:
http://www.amazon.com/Derale-15735-Non-Thermostatic-Sandwich-Adapter/dp/B004XONTUW

I like the seperate spin-on nut adapter, allowing me to precisely control the location of the inlet/outlet ports, so I'd just run straight 10AN hose to the cooler tucked up along the block/pan with the appropriate 45/90 connections at the cooler.

However, the Canton looks to be a better piece since it actually replaces the bypass in the block instead of spinning on to it. Anyone use it, and does it let me clock the port locations?

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product/22-541/22-541----SBC-REMOTE-OIL-COOLER-SANDWICH-ADAPTER/

[Dulaney]

I'm going to try this thermo switch
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15721/10002/-1
with this cooler/fan combo
http://www.jegs.com/i/Derale/259/15820/10002/-1

I figure -8 is plenty. By using the fan version, I'm not required to mount it on the bumper, which seems to take some damage with my off-track excursions.
I'm not fighting overheating issues, though. Simply doing it as added insurance while I'm plumbing for the accusump anyway.

I bought this when it was first released, but never used it (until now)
http://www.improvedracing.com/oil-adapters/low-profile-oil-cooler-adapter-for-ls-series-engine-p-68.html

[ShadowBolt]

Do u run a mech or elect gauge? Pretty crazy that your car stays at 190 the whole race! I would think running with other cars it would get higher at times?

I never see it go over 200 except at Hallett in tracffic (200-210). It used to run way hotter before I installed the radiator wind deflector. It is an electric gauge set-up so it may not be perfect but it has never pushed any water like the 5.0 would.


JJ

[GlennCMC70]

I use M1 15/50. I used it in my LS1 Camaro and I use it in my LT1 Camaro. Motor was built in 2007. I've run countless races on this motor....
All of 2007 season, 2008, season, 2009 season, 1/2 of 2010 season (crash). I've run the National events in 2007, 2008, 2009. I've run some long ass enduro's at TWS and ran every lap of them. I think we ran 3 total. One was so long it counted as a full season of CMC racing.

I change it every other event and use a new filter w/ every change.
With that said, I had very bad oil pressure at TWS. Most of the weekend I was @ 0 on the guage at 5K on the front straight. I'm not sure where the problem is. The motor is coming out for a health check and at least a fresh set of bearings. After all that track time, its about time. Not bad for a $1700 long block rebuild. $100-$150 for bearings and machine shop labor and I'll be good for another 5-6 years.

[AllZWay]

I don't have an oil temp guage and don't want to know. I ran the first engine 5 years with mostly Royal Purple 10-40 and it was a 135k pull out engine.

[michaelmosty]

I run AmsOil 15/50 and my first motor lasted 5 1/2 years racing at every event. The only reason it blew was b/c of the $80 Summit balancer. Everything still looked perfect with the cylinder walls / pistons. My oil temp is usually 240 in the cool weather and gets to around 300 in the summer months. I change the oil every 3 events.

[early70scamaros]

No clue what caused the fluctuating oil pressure. The water temps never seemed to rise, which I find odd.

My car was doing this as well.

During race 2, I had an off track excursion in 7. I watched the water temps after that and it never climbed higher than 190 so I figured I was safe. During the last lap, water temp pegged. Once back in the pits, I cleaned the grass off the opening and the car quickly got back to normal temps but had little to no oil pressure. 30 minutes afterwards, I started the car and still no oil pressure. Figured I was done as I have been way down on power anyway (could not pull any CMC car down the straight).

Went to load the car on the trailer before race 3 and the oil pressure was fine, so I went to grid. Still had no power and the oil pressure fluctuated greatly in the turns.

Figured I was on borrowed time, so I did not risk it in race 4. Will try to check it out over the next couple of weeks.

[MikeP99Z]

I run Motul 15/50

[marshall_mosty]

Here's my post-tear down report. #4 exhaust valve barely kissed the piston, so no gaping holes. The valve seized in it's guide. Upon disassembly of the head, it was most likely due to my overheating issues... I'm going to have all the guides checked and a new valve/guide in #4 exhaust. Should have the heads back by the end of next week. Gonna put a new water pump and radiator as well to try and cure the overheating issues. The passenger side head gasket was in good shape, so I have no clue as to why it was overheating...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/945664_4098059749212_1987146872_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/p480x480/393113_4098039148697_1094087041_n.jpg

[Dulaney]

My damage was slightly more extensive:
12271228122912301231
There are two wrist pins in that last picture...

[marshall_mosty]

My damage was slightly more extensive:
12271228122912301231
There are two wrist pins in that last picture...

Okay Jim... you win... :)

[cobra132]

That blowed-up good!

[marshall_mosty]

So I figured out my issues... When I put this motor together over the Christmas break, on the first warmup cycle the driver's side head gasket (fancy Cometic) didn't seal properly and I was blowing water out from between the head/block at 6/7. Pulled the head, did a visual, and put it back together. Didn't have any issue breaking in the motor at Cresson as well as the dyno tune session.. Fast forward to NOLA (my firsy event this year) and temps were 250+ and I'd lose all the water from the radiator between rounds. The temps caused the #4 exhaust valve to sieze in the guide. Root cause is the Cometic gasket didn't seal yet again... When I pulled the head today, the gasket itself had a slight twist and there was water in the cylinder...

So, new head gasket and I'm going to have the heads diassembled and everything checked... Should be easily good for Hallett.

[AI#97]

Jim, we have a stock LS6 cam sitting in the garage. Has a season on it maybe. We have been running amsoil 15w50 in her car for a long time. go 3 to 5 events. She has a small oil cooler and it's HARD to get oil temp...might see 200 degrees on a hot day. We run it AT LEAST 1 qt high or they starve in corners....common LS problem.

Regardless of oil, heat and dirt are the major issues. if you are still using the stock filter on an LS1, it is the same size or smaller than the one on our lemons neon. It is an item I plan on changing soon by installing a remote filter setup similar to the mustang. It runs dual FL-1a filters and I go a full season on one change of motul and topping off 1/2 qt per weekend. No oil cooler and oil temps below 230. New boss motor will have a cooler. Dirt is what kills oil and raises temps. keep it clean and you can go seasons on a change as long as it doesn't go acidic while sitting for months at a time.

[Dulaney]

Interesting thought, Matt.
It'd be pretty easy to add a second filter inline with the new oil cooler assembly using either of these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ear-2177erl/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-1028/overview/

I'd want to make absolutely sure that the filter had a bypass if clogged.

With this, the cooler, and the accusump, it's starting to look as though I need to figure out how to run lines over to the passenger side. Anyone have any safe routing ideas?