LT1 Power Steering rack sources

[Pranav]

What is everyone using? Dawdy mentioned PSC or TurnOne may have gotten into the business of doing racks as well, gonna make some calls this morning.

For those that weren't there, came out Sunday and made 3/4 of a lap during warmup before the rack blew a seal and dumped all the fluid; UV dye shows it fluid coming slowly out from somewhere behind a boot at idle.

The more I think of it, the more it may have been my fault:
-On first install last year I swapped the lines by mistake and blew out the top shaft seal; replaced the seal
-Tore one of the accordian boots at some point
-Throwing it around when I put my front clip back together this month probably didn't help

This is the rack that I'm running:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150919467609&item=150919467609&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466

I'll also look into an underdrive pulley for the new (spare) pump, already had it deflowed by PSC.

[y5e06]

let us know what you find in regards to rebuild services. I never investigated it myself, just heard about it in passing in the past.
found one link.
http://www.turnone-steering.com/power-steering-racks/

[Pranav]

To clear up some confusion, THIS is the rack I have in the car:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-99-Chevy-Camaro-Firebird-Power-Steering-Rack-Pinion-NEW-OUTER-TIE-RODS-/160701202817?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:1123

The above and what is in my car looks to be the F41 package (came only on V6 cars) and the input shaft is at a 60* angle.

Some searching shows the LT1 rack I'm looking for has the input shaft at 45*?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-99-Chevy-Camaro-Firebird-Power-Steering-Rack-Pinion-NEW-OUTER-TIE-RODS-/160701202817?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:US:1123

My steering column connected to the 60* just fine, if I get the right 45* rack, will it also fit? I returned the car's original rack for the core charge a long time ago, never thought to make the comparison back then.

[y5e06]

talk to ross. he has my old street Z28 LT1. perhaps he'd sell you that one, if he has no plans for it, and you can use it as is or send it in for a rebuild. it should still be good though.

[Pranav]

Answered my own question on the correct rack type. The V8 rack has a 45* input shaft angle for improved header clearance, and the shaft/linkage is the same on the body side for both engines, which is why my V6 rack still worked. (EDIT: I AM WRONG, ALL 93-97 LT1 racks have the steering input shaft at 60*, 45* is the LS1 stuff)

Finally talked to both PSC and TurnOne today. Here's what I learned:

-PSC does not do racks, they told me to talk to TurnOne

-TurnOne will rebuild a rack for $200. They don't have any racks on hand, you have to send them yours.

-When I asked TurnOne about the intricacies of pump pressure/flow settings and steering feel, I was told that there really isn't much room for improvement on the pump; marginal at best. Work needs to be done on the spool valve inside the rack for any real gains. The cost is too high and demand is too low for them to justify making a spool valve of their own, and anything they'd do as a one-off is just big money (and I'm not sure if that would be legal for CMC).

-I got the feeling that TurnOne is a lot more experienced as far as getting the flow rate and heat build up sorted out on the pumps than PSC. Likewise PSC charges $75-100 to re-do a pump while TurnOne charges $175, and I've heard TurnOne may get you the best result on steering feel, even though it's a small improvement.

I have a spare PSC pump on hand and will just run that for now, I did not have issues with any foaming with the PSC pump and think it's good enough for my purposes.

Now I just need to find a cheap used V8 rack and send it off to TurnOne, since I have the wrong, slower ratio, V6 rack in the car now. ROSS!!!!

Also, has anyone tried a underdrive PS pulley?

[Fbody383]

Also, has anyone tried a underdrive PS pulley? I have a Turn One pump. I killed it at Hallett a couple of years ago and then rebuilt it myself; the parts kit is about $15. No cooler and no problems since and I keep a rebuild kit in the spares.

Get a Turn One pump and a cooler and keep clean fluid in it.

[Pranav]

Is that a Turn One specific rebuild kit or a generic one I can use on my PSC?

Just ordered a rack from a salvage yard in Pearland, having them ship it up to Turn One.

[AllZWay]

Pranav.... I just run a stock pump and have the same one I started racing with 7 years ago. I do have a decent size cooler in front of my radiator and I run Royal Purple fluid. I also change that fluid once a season.

[Fbody383]

Is that a Turn One specific rebuild kit or a generic one I can use on my PSC?

Just ordered a rack from a salvage yard in Pearland, having them ship it up to Turn One. As I understand, the magic is in the valving; the bearing/O rings etc. are just stock parts.

http://www.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imagekey=1146031&imageurl=http%3A//www.rockauto.com/info/Gates/348374.jpg

Ok, i was wrong... they're $6 at Rock Auto for the expensive one.

[GlennCMC70]

De-flowing the pump is done for two reasons.
1) heat. Pressure ='s heat. We dont need alot of pressure. The stock pump is set-up to generate alot of presure at very low RPM's. We need low flow at high RPM's.
2) Less "assist" give you a much better feel for the tires. It allows more feedback to the wheel in your hands. I would de-flow mine even more if I could.

Turn One is what is on my car but PSC is who I use now as they are local. They allowed me to pick a flow rate for pums I took them in the past. I want to say stock is 12GPM and they were setting them to 2.5 GPM.
A pulley for the LT1 should be easy to make since it has no ribs due to using the back of the belt.

[Pranav]

Cannot believe my luck.

Swap in my new Turn One new rack and a spare PSC pump I had, test drive and idle the hell out of it, no leaks. Take it to TWS today, make one lap and pull it in. PS fluid all over the damn place.

Turns out one of the hard line flare nuts was jacked or something, maybe the guy who rebuilt put it on crooked so it cross threaded and never seated the flare right.

1308

Another day at the track wasted, and I'm scrambling to fix this shit right before a race yet again. At least I caught the "new" leak before running the pump completely dry.

How many different gods do I need to pray to and how many farm animals do I need to sacrifice to get back on track?

We all know Turn One is a pretty reputable shop, and Jeff on the phone made it clear they will figure out WTF happened and make it right. I've found a possible replacement rack sitting 7 miles from their shop so maybe it'll all be over quick...

[Casey_SS]

Sorry to hear Pranav, that sucks. Glad to hear Jeff is taking care of you....he was good to me in my time of need as well.

I can't advise you on the spiritual stuff but I'm pretty sure the farm animals are innocent on this one. Race cars are just temperamental - no matter how much time and money you pour into one, it's going to have good spells and bad spells. Look at anyone who's raced more than a season or two...we all go through phases where nothing works and you just can't catch a break. Sometimes it's your fault, sometimes it's someone else's, sometimes all the humans were flawless and the car is just pissed off. Doesn't matter. The trick is learning to recognize the cycle, work through it, and appreciate that because you've had so much shit go wrong lately, odds are you're right on the cusp of the next "good spell". :)

[AllZWay]

Just what Casey said... Racing can be frustrating.

Last year...hardly any issues and made every race.
This year.. every darn thing has broken. rearend, trannsmission, motor, knock sensor, starter.... arrrggghhhh!!!

[marshall_mosty]

Just what Casey said... Racing can be frustrating.

Last year...hardly any issues and made every race.
This year.. every darn thing has broken. rearend, trannsmission, motor, knock sensor, starter.... arrrggghhhh!!!

I'll mirror that comment:

Feb-2012: New stroker motor let go (fuel pump issue caused the motor to go lean) after 4 hrs run time
Nov-2012: Spare motor in the car and the transmission had a 3/4 shifter key break
Dec-2012: Dislocated shoulder after breaking in new stroker motor at MSR-C
Jan/Apr-2013: Missed MSR-H thru TWS due to shoulder surgery in Feb..
May-2013: Blew a head gasket at NOLA and hung an exhaust valve open, bent valve, galled valve seat, ABS quit working...
June-2013: Heads rebuilt, still overheating, broken torque arm mount, starter quit, Blew 4th gear in the transmission at Hallett on Saturday during qual. Installed spare tranny for Saturday R1, still overheating. new radiator Saturday night, still overheating, ... On the trailer after pulling off halfway thru R3.
Sep-2013: Rebuilt tranny with A-5 internals working fine, ABS still not working, cooling finally fixed, heads crapped out, smoking like a mosquito fogger prior to R4... on the trailer early.
Current day: New AFR165's sitting in the box with new head gaskets waiting to be put on for the start of the 2014 season... Still need to figure out the ABS.

The joy's of racing... :)

[Fbody383]

I'll mirror that comment:

Dec-2012: Dislocated shoulder after breaking in new stroker motor at MSR-C

The joy's of racing... :)

Well... FALLING off the car doesn't exactly count.

Err... I mean, an unplanned, high speed, of track excursion that caused a loss of power steering and only Herculean effort saved orphans and vunerables from certain doom resulting in the shoulder injury.

Hang in there Pranav.

[marshall_mosty]

Well... FALLING off the car doesn't exactly count.

May-2012 was falling off a latter, working on the car
Dec-2012 was putting the steering wheel in the passenger side of the car... I know, I know...

[Rob Liebbe]

Dec-2012 was putting the steering wheel in the passenger side of the car... I know, I know...

Uh, for future reference, steering wheels go on the driver's side of the car in this country. ;)

[RichardP]

Uh, for future reference, steering wheels go on the driver's side of the car in this country. ;)

Um... steering wheels always go on the driver's side. Which side of the car is considered the driver's side varies in different parts of the world...


Richard P.

[Rob Liebbe]

Um... steering wheels always go on the driver's side. Which side of the car is considered the driver's side varies in different parts of the world...


Richard P.

OK Mr. Nasa, your right, my wording was poor. His original post was putting the steering wheel in the passenger side, irrespective of left v right, so I can save some face. The fact remains that Marshall's shoulder is made of glass.

[Fbody383]

May-2012 was falling off a latter, working on the car I thought you fell off the former... what else did you fall off?

Pranav, work UNDER the car when it's on jack stands or a lift.

How else can we help and stop cluttering up your thread?

[Pranav]

Well the good news is that they can most likely cut the fitting off and weld on a new one, saving the need to start over with a new housing.

Unfortunately the FedEx location at which I dropped off the package on Saturday hasn't received their ground pickup yet; Turn One won't get it until the end of Thursday, their shop is closed Friday, likely won't be able to touch the rack until Monday.

Cutting it close again. Jeff was notably stressed out about the whole situation, both of us just want to get it fixed and the car back on track ASAP. Good guys...

[Wade]

Is everyone with a 4th gen running some special steering rack? I thought I knew about the pumps being a big deal and needing to be "tuned" for less flow, but why can't you just run a reman rack off the shelf at O'Reilly's? is Pranav just being 4n4l?

[GlennCMC70]

I have been running the same junk yard rack since 2005.

[AI#97]

I have been running the same junk yard rack since 2005.

Vatozone rebuilt and Turn one pump here.

[Pranav]

I honestly thought I was doing just fine with my no name rebuild special until I broke it. I will say that in the two laps I ran with the Turn One rack, and hustling it around the paddock/neighborhood, the steering felt fantastic. The old rack would always "jam up" and cause the pump to whine randomly right out of the box. They say its something to do with the piston on the rack shaft coming loose (common for these racks) and some/most remanufacturers not re-rolling it on to the shaft to fix it. When I sent in a junkyard, a virgin 150k mile OEM pull, it had the same loose piston issue on teardown.

I am unsure if the parts store's sources take this extra step, but what turned me on to getting a junkyard rack rebuilt by Turn One is the fact that the parts stores use the same part number rack for the slower ratio V6 and faster ratio V8s; it's a crap shoot as to whether or not they will give you the right one in a pinch. However, after the fact, I learned that the ratio can be verified by turning the input shaft with a wrench before leaving the store, so maybe the latter is not a valid point.

I probably still am being 4n4l, but I made it a point to go the extra mile for reliability on this car from the start by observing everyone else's common failure points, except for when I cheaped out and didn't have a shop rebuild the first shortblock, and didn't do the rack thing right the first time; those are the only things that have bit me in the ass so far.

We wouldn't be having much of a discussion right now if it weren't for the freak occurrence with the stripped fitting...

[cobra132]

FTR I did not touch that rack. FMR

[Pranav]

FTR I did not touch that rack. FMR

http://i.i.cbsi.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2013/01/25/en_0125_Rewind_ClintonLewinsky_900x675.jpg

[Casey_SS]

Lol!

[Pranav]

They received the rack this morning and already got it tore down. No other issues spotted besides the obvious fitting. They're welding on a new fitting, still not 100% sure if they'll get it back together and ready to ship today before the close for the week, but it's getting there.

[MikeP99Z]

Nothing like welding nipples onto your rack.

[Pranav]

Nothing like welding nipples onto your rack.

http://madeofwynn.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/picard-facepalm.jpg