Pads for ST-40 calipers. What do you like and who do you get them from?

[GlennCMC70]

Like the title says, what and who......
I may need to install my new brakes for MSR-C.

[marshall_mosty]

I've been on PFC01's, but I've heard those are now obsolete, but replaced by an equivalent PN.

[ShadowBolt]

Yep. I ran the PFC01 but last time I ordered (from John George) he said the 01 was no longer available so I went to the 06. I can't tell any difference. I just went on line and the 01 is there. I did not try and click on it.


JJ

[y5e06]

if you liked the CT's for the LS calipers then you could stay w/ that. carbotech makes pads for the ST-40 in all their regular compounds. dunno about availability etc.

http://ctbrakes.com/calipers.asp?Make=Stop-Tech_Calipers&Model=ST-40_%26_ST-45_Caliper

[Casey_SS]

http://www.lpiracing.com/Porterfield-R4-E-Carbon-Kevlar-Endurance-Brake-Pad-AP-372-R4-E-762p198512.htm

[ShadowBolt]

http://www.lpiracing.com/Porterfield-R4-E-Carbon-Kevlar-Endurance-Brake-Pad-AP-372-R4-E-762p198512.htm

I'm going to try this pad next. Less than half price of the PFC's. I know Dan runs then and he is kinda fast......
JJ

[RichardP]

I'm going to try this pad next. Less than half price of the PFC's. I know Dan runs then and he is kinda fast......
JJ

Dan and I run the R4, not the R4-E. I've been running it for a very long time and like it enough that I haven't tried any of the newer compounds. I have no data to compare it to anything else...

Richard P.

[ShadowBolt]

Dan and I run the R4, not the R4-E. I've been running it for a very long time and like it enough that I haven't tried any of the newer compounds. I have no data to compare it to anything else...

Richard P.

Thanks Richard. I hope I like the R4. The price of the PFC's are crazy when you look at them next to the Porterfields.


JJ

[marshall_mosty]

So what is the proper process for rotors if you switch pad compounds? Especially for floating rotors with slots... I'm not really interested in buying new rings to just change pad compounds.

[ShadowBolt]

So what is the proper process for rotors if you switch pad compounds? Especially for floating rotors with slots... I'm not really interested in buying new rings to just change pad compounds.

I've never had an issue as long as I was going from one race pad to another. When I used to drive my C6 to the track and change pads to race pads then change back to street pads I did have issues because the street pad could not knock off the transfer layer from the harder race pad. After a few days it would be okay.

JJ

[Suck fumes]

At the very least Go over the rotor with a buffer pad on a wiz wheel air tool really well and or resurface them. I know first hand going from a hawk to a Carobotech pad does not mix well! The car wouldn't stop worth a flip.

[BlueFirePony]

So what is the proper process for rotors if you switch pad compounds? Especially for floating rotors with slots... I'm not really interested in buying new rings to just change pad compounds.
In short, if you are going to a pad with a significantly different operating range, material or bite you will want to resurface your rotors at a minimum and make sure your rotor's operating range (factoring in the resurfacing) matches the pad's. If you are going to an almost similar pad, then clean, scuff and check for wear, resurface if needed.

In long.....
When you change pads, make your rotor surface as much like new as you can.
A clean hard surface with directional edges (if you have slots, cross drilled or even partial drill) meets brand new consumable gritty surface. Look for high spots on your rotors, any cracks.

Also, if the pad and rotor temp range changes you may need to adjust how you cool the brakes and how you brake to take advantage of the pads/rotor behavior. Combinations of pads, calipers and rotors can create totally different behaviors.

If you go with the R4s they can operate with good bite from 400F or so to 1000F. Other pads need to be kept cool and some like to run hot. Where do your rotors run the best and how long do they take to cool/heat?

The APF02s I ran had better bite through their entire range than any other brake pad I tried (spec'd at .6 coeff of friction all things considered equal) but really grabbed in a range of about 575-850F. They also required less cooling to keep the bite higher but also cost twice what the R4s do. I ran several different sets of rotors (mostly slotted, some cross-drilled) most could not keep up with the pads and warped or cracked quickly. Changing the way I ducted the brake system could have helped. The DBA4000 (and then the 5000) were the only ones that could mate up with the APR pads. I raced almost exclusively on DBA and APR (some Mintex). I did a lot of trial and error in TT and DE sessions (probably over $3k in products).

When I was at a track (ECR) that lent itself to me being very aggressive coming off my brakes the pads needed to release fast so I used a specific pad that had great initial bite and came off the rotor quick - that's not just the pistons in your caliper..that's the behavior of your rotors and pads as well. Most pads did not release as fast as the APRs or the Mintex.

With the loose-is-fast setup I often needed to temper my release and some pads would overheat. A set of Mintex F4R (similar to the APF02) had a wider operating range (similar IIRC to the Porterfield R4) and had great initial bite and very consistent through braking, and required less cooling...and about twice the cost - $280-300).

[AI#97]

Glenn, for the non-abs Camaro setup like Misty has, we prefer the PFC01's (now the PFC 11) but there is a lot of initial bite. We tried a set of 06's and you can hammer the hell out of them as there is less initial bite and they modulate VERY nicely. We ran them for a weekend at Hallett and they barely show wear. Misty prefer's the 01's and we keep these 06's as spares, along with a ton of Hawk DTC-70's from a former life.

I think you would be happy with the 06 or the DTC-70. The 70 is probably pretty close to an 06 but a LOT cheaper....however, I personally can't stand Hawks and find I can overheat them pretty easily.

One thing you need to keep in mind is the stoptech rotors are MUCH more efficient at cooling than the factory stuff you have been running so don't be afraid of a pad that works in the higher heat ranges. If you are a hard charger under braking or are looking to catch up to the trophy girls, you are going to need a brake pad that can take the abuse and not fade toward the end of the race.

Misty said she might cut you a deal on these lightly used 06's if you are interested in trying them.

[ShadowBolt]

I was wrong. I just looked back and I am running the 11's not the 06's. I really could not tell that much difference in the 11's and the 01's but you can get on the 11's harder without lock-up.
With tax, I paid almost $400.00 for a set!

JJ

[michaelmosty]

I was wrong. I just looked back and I am running the 11's not the 06's. I really could not tell that much difference in the 11's and the 01's but you can get on the 11's harder without lock-up.
With tax, I paid almost $400.00 for a set!

JJ
Holy cow!! The 01's were around $275/set. I guess it is not that bad considering I get 5 events out of a set. An extra $200 / year isn't that bad if you love the pad.

[ShadowBolt]

Holy cow!! The 01's were around $275/set. I guess it is not that bad considering I get 5 events out of a set. An extra $200 / year isn't that bad if you love the pad.

I think the R4 may be the way to go. Several fast guys run then and they are at a good price.

JJ

[BlueFirePony]

Holy cow!! The 01's were around $275/set. I guess it is not that bad considering I get 5 events out of a set. An extra $200 / year isn't that bad if you love the pad.

Damn...and I thought I was spending $ on pads....I know the PFC calipers for the S197 were pretty expensive (comparatively) but they also perform well from what I've heard (I know..not for CMC).
I'd definitely look at the R4 (not the E -unless you are running an enduro)

[ShadowBolt]

Damn...and I thought I was spending $ on pads....I know the PFC calipers for the S197 were pretty expensive (comparatively) but they also perform well from what I've heard (I know..not for CMC).
I'd definitely look at the R4 (not the E -unless you are running an enduro)

They had a price increase. I was paying under $300.00 plus tax and now they are like $389.00.

JJ

[BryanL]

At the very least Go over the rotor with a buffer pad on a wiz wheel air tool really well and or resurface them. I know first hand going from a hawk to a Carobotech pad does not mix well! The car wouldn't stop worth a flip.

I'm going to try Carbotechs in the rear instead of Azone golds. Rotors are fine but I don't like having them resurfaced after trying that and having them crack. What do I need to do to clean up the rotor? I'm not sure what kind of buffer pad you mean or a wiz wheel. Obviusly not the kind of buffer pad for detailing a car's paint. Any cleaners, scoth brite, emory cloth type of stuff to use to clean up the surface?

Do I need to do this when running the same carbotech compound on a used rotor?

[BlueFirePony]

I'm going to try Carbotechs in the rear instead of Azone golds. Rotors are fine but I don't like having them resurfaced after trying that and having them crack. What do I need to do to clean up the rotor? I'm not sure what kind of buffer pad you mean or a wiz wheel. Obviusly not the kind of buffer pad for detailing a car's paint. Any cleaners, scoth brite, emory cloth type of stuff to use to clean up the surface?

Do I need to do this when running the same carbotech compound on a used rotor?
If they cracked on resurfacing they were either resurfaced wrong or they maybe were gonna crack soon anyway. Check the rotor thickness and condition before handing them off and you should be comfortable having them resurfaced.
Cleaning the rotor is never a bad thing - if your pad requires bedding it's better to do with a clean rotor than a crapped up one. It really takes very little time.

You want all the spent pad material and any other crap off the rotor regardless of whether it is same pad material or not.
What I do:
A variable RPM tool like a circular buffer (not orbital, unless you want to chase it around) or sander makes it quick and easy using a gritty pad > 200 < 1500 - say 600 - it really depends how much crap is built up. I've seen people approach this like prepping a car for clear...using 1000grit followed by 1500 grit. Hmmm...I usually use more course.
If you do it without power, use a block...don't use your fingers.
You want a relatively low speed or you just might glaze the crap on instead of cleaning it off - start low and even and if it can handle more speed, pick it up. Should go quickly.
Just make sure you don't dig an edge and groove/gouge -have the rotor clamped flat so you can work it evenly. After I am done and it looks clean I dust and rub talcum powder onto the surface and take the wheel to it one last time to check for high spots and cracks. Then wipe with mildly soapy (like 4 drops/ pint) water and dry or use +90% isopropyl alcohol
My rotors have never failed me....yet. :/

[ShadowBolt]

FYI, Stoptech says when you can to use used rotors with new pads and used pads when changing to new rotors.

JJ

[Suck fumes]

I use an air grinder but put a scotch brite wheel on it instead of the grinder wheel.

This tool:
http://www.zorotools.com/g/00069620/k-G1459701?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kw=%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=CKSM88y46LwCFQ_l7AodzCIAIA

[BlueFirePony]

FYI, Stoptech says when you can to use used rotors with new pads and used pads when changing to new rotors.

JJ
Sure, that is pretty typical for the bed in process of both rotors and pads. You still want a clean new rotor and a clean (non glazed) set of pads.
The deal is that if you have both new, one or both could wind up heating up too quickly during bed-in.
So if you change both your rotor and pads to new at the same time, bed in one at a time. Once they are prepped, you would go with the new rotor (bedded) with new pad (bedded)

[blk96gt]

Anyone know the part# for the PFC-11 pads for the Stop Tech calipers?

[ShadowBolt]

Anyone know the part# for the PFC-11 pads for the Stop Tech calipers?

I have a box at home. I not be home until Sunday but I will look for you then.

JJ

[marshall_mosty]

I just found PFC01's for $294 per set.
tuningalliance.com
0447.01.17.44

Coding:
0447: Pad Shape
01: Pad Compound
17: Initial thickness (mm)
44: Pre-burnished, can be raced right out of the box

[ShadowBolt]

I just found PFC01's for $294 per set.
tuningalliance.com
0447.01.17.44

Coding:
0447: Pad Shape
01: Pad Compound
17: Initial thickness (mm)
44: Pre-burnished, can be raced right out of the box

Good find Marshall! I just ordered two sets. I can't tell a difference in the 01 and the 11 and $309 shipped to Texas is a great price.

Jerry

[ShadowBolt]

Hold the phone. I have been e-mailing the guy. He does not have stock. He also said the price is old.....no shit. I told him the 01's were no longer being made and he had no idea. He just told me that price is below his cost now. I ask for a refund. Move along, nothing to see here.


Jerry

[GlennCMC70]

Obviously I never installed those brakes yet.
While doing motor #2 install, I saw where the front rotors were questionable for TWS in Sept. Looking to install the brakes now. Still leaning towards the Carbotech's for $206 or so. I have had very good luck w/ them for a very long time. Wondering if anyone opinion has changed since I started this thread.

[ShadowBolt]

Obviously I never installed those brakes yet.
While doing motor #2 install, I saw where the front rotors were questionable for TWS in Sept. Looking to install the brakes now. Still leaning towards the Carbotech's for $206 or so. I have had very good luck w/ them for a very long time. Wondering if anyone opinion has changed since I started this thread.

I purchased the Porterfield R4's but still have not installed them. Ask Dan he runs them and they are only $230.00.

JJ

[AI#97]

I purchased the Porterfield R4's but still have not installed them. Ask Dan he runs them and they are only $230.00.

JJ
Threw on a set of hawk DTC 70's at hallett as I thought that was all we had in the spates box. Not bad compared to the 01 but had a tin of fade at the end of the 30 minute race. Not sure on price but think they are around half that of the PFC.

[Trublu]

Threw on a set of hawk DTC 70's at hallett as I thought that was all we had in the spates box. Not bad compared to the 01 but had a tin of fade at the end of the 30 minute race. Not sure on price but think they are around half that of the PFC.

I ran Hawks also. $180 but if you make use of their contingency then they'll cost $30

[AI#97]

I ran Hawks also. $180 but if you make use of their contingency then they'll cost $30

Hmm, may need to look into that but honestly, I don't like the feel of them as with some heat, I got pad fade at hallett, but Misty's car does need more brake cooling...well actual brake cooling would be good! ;) I have been spoiled by the 01's for years. When I put the Alcon's on the front of the mustang, my pad cost went to nearly $400 just for the fronts....I may need to reconsider Hawks....however, by going to the 14"/13" setup front and rear, my pad life has MORE than doubled and I was already getting 4 to 5 events on front pads. I think I have 20-25 sessions on the front pads right now and they are barely 1/2 worn. Having too much brake is a damn nice thing!

[Trublu]

FYI on Hawk Contingency vouchers.

Pretty simple process, use the Hawk Performance website and once at checkout apply the code to receive the discount. I discovered that they do not allow stacking of codes but talked to their customer service folks and they say this will be fixed before Nationals in August.

End result for me. I like the pads and I like 'em more now there is less money flowing from my hip pocket

[AI#97]

FYI on Hawk Contingency vouchers.

Pretty simple process, use the Hawk Performance website and once at checkout apply the code to receive the discount. I discovered that they do not allow stacking of codes but talked to their customer service folks and they say this will be fixed before Nationals in August.

End result for me. I like the pads and I like 'em more now there is less money flowing from my hip pocket

Yeah, but when fading brakes costs me $400-800 in tires for one race.....I'll splurge a little on pads.

[michaelmosty]

I agree Matt. When my pads cost me $350 and last 5 events, that is only $30/event more than pads that are $200.
I'll gladly pay the extra $30 to have a pad I know and love!!

[BlueFirePony]

Wondering if anyone opinion has changed since I started this thread.
We are moving away from the Pagid's for obvious reasons and probably the APR's as well. Current thought is to use the R4s unless something else really jumps out.