Toyo RR costs????

[GlennCMC70]

I just ordered a set and was not expecting the price I was charged. I will not say if it was high or low, just not what I was expecting.

$600 in Toyo Bucks and I was charged $436 delivered to my door. That's $1036 for a set of tires.

Is that what you guys are seeing?

[Suck fumes]

Mine were $986. But yah pretty close. Expect to drop a grand every weekend on these things if you want to stay at the front. They last a lot longer on a lighter car which was why I was all for them but didn't know that on our heavy tanks they would start fading on the 6th heat cycle and go away. They act very similar to Hoosiers.

[blk96gt]

Mine were $1004

[ShadowBolt]

A set every race weekend is not what CMC was supposed to be about. I hope that does not turn out to be true. Giving up a second or two because your tires have one race weekend on them will not be any better for us than the 888's were. I hope your wrong. But I'm not saying you are.

JJ

[Suck fumes]

Ive used prob 8 sets so far on the SI car so I think one set per weekend for optimal lap times is accurate. Now there is still plenty of tread left on them after the weekend just not much grip.

[MikeP99Z]

Where are you ordering from Aaron?

Best heat cycles for me on the first set were 2 through 8. 9-12 were ok but losing grip fast, and i just screwed around on them for 13-18. Nothing really left grip wise after 14 or 15.

[blk96gt]

How many heat cycles could you get on a set of 4/5-32 shaved RA1's before they started falling off? What kind of differences in lap times did you see vs. the RA1's?

I'm really wishing I would have brought my RR's this past weekend to compare...

[MikeS]

I'm seeing them for more like $1200 for the 18" size. Where are you seeing them for ~$1K? Or is that for 17s?

[Suck fumes]

I get all mine from tire rack since I have an account through my business. So my prices will be lower than what is normal. But ~$1k is for 17's. Retail on the 18's is $1200 Mike.

The RR sticks better than the RA1's by a little bit under cornering in that 1-6 heat cycle sweet spot but I always bought my RA1's for CMC car at 3/32 so they always stuck pretty well.

[marshall_mosty]

$1110 shipped from Appalachian Race Tire

$275 in Toyo Bucks plus $280 cash for a pair...

[Rob Liebbe]

That pricing and life span is ludicrous. I'll table the motion to seriously look into something else. One of the "lower" level tires from Toyo or Nitto (same company by the way) with more life span would be my starting point. Additionally, that kind of money will put a serious hurt on my desire to return to CMC, I'll just build the car for open track or sell it.

[blk96gt]

Those are my thoughts as well Rob. If I have to buy a new set of tires every weekend I'll go find somewhere else to run.

[AllZWay]

That pricing and life span is ludicrous. I'll table the motion to seriously look into something else. One of the "lower" level tires from Toyo or Nitto (same company by the way) with more life span would be my starting point. Additionally, that kind of money will put a serious hurt on my desire to return to CMC, I'll just build the car for open track or sell it.

I think we keep asking and keep being denied. :mad:

I much more for a tire that last than a tire that is fast.

[Suck fumes]

Any tire under racing conditions is not going to last long. However I can vouch for the nitto NT01. I had a friend that ran a 6hr enduro on those and won the whole thing with not issues! And the tire still had about 40% life left! But they would require shaving which is not something I enjoy doing.

Pricing isn't any diff for the RR vs RA1 shaved. Still about a grand. The life span is about the same to for me. Not saying I like or approve of that but that's my experience.

[ShadowBolt]

If it really requires a new set of tires every race weekend or you will be a second or two slower I can't see myself racing past this year. I hate to even say that. I love this sport and I love the guys I race with but I will not go from buying 10 to 12 tires per six race weekend season to 24 tires per six race weekend season. I can't see more than a few CMC guys (maybe none) being willing to pay $6000.00 per year in tires. Changes your whole thought pattern doesn't it James?


Jerry

[kbrewmr2]

someone's ubercompetitiveness is showing

[Suck fumes]

This tire budget is about average if not less than most. Gotta pay to play.

[Rob Liebbe]

It is a bit telling that even the guys who get a good amount of Toyo bucks on a fairly regular basis are complaining about costs. If this is the case then we can either select another "official" tire or all agree to and run on an unofficial tire and just don't worry about Toyo bucks as a group. I feel like the RA1 was the gateway tire and we are now being forced up the chain to a more expensive plateau.

The Nitto NT01 is one of the ones to consider as is the Falken Adven (I think that's right) has had good success on a Lemons Mustang that I know of.

[AllZWay]

If it really requires a new set of tires every race weekend or you will be a second or two slower I can't see myself racing past this year. I hate to even say that. I love this sport and I love the guys I race with but I will not go from buying 10 to 12 tires per six race weekend season to 24 tires per six race weekend season. I can't see more than a few CMC guys (maybe none) being willing to pay $6000.00 per year in tires. Changes your whole thought pattern doesn't it James?


Jerry

You know you are preaching to choir I sit in. :D I'll quit long before I waste that kind of money on tires.

[blk96gt]

Mass exodus from CMC to PT???

[michaelmosty]

How many heat cycles could you get on a set of 4/5-32 shaved RA1's before they started falling off? What kind of differences in lap times did you see vs. the RA1's?

I'm really wishing I would have brought my RR's this past weekend to compare...
I always got my RA1's shaved to 5/32 and could get 3 events out of a set (flipping after each event). I felt like they had the exact same grip for the first 15 heat cycles. They maybe dropped of 1/4 of a second at heat cycle #20 and really starting losing about a second / lap around #25.

[Fbody383]

This tire budget is about average if not less than most. Gotta pay to play. Nope. We could race on just about anything.

My interest is, and always has been, being able to have races in between hanging out with car people and having some food/dring 5 or 6 weekends a year. I could care less about absolute lap times if the field all runs close.



If this is the case then we can either select another "official" tire or all agree to and run on an unofficial tire and just don't worry about Toyo bucks as a group. +1

[GlennCMC70]

RA1's slow down about the same rate as the RR's seem to be at this point. But I didn't see guys buying new RA1's every event. We always pretty much ran the tire until it was dead.
Lets see how it works out for us before we all plan to bail.
Not having to shave a tire is a major plus. This opens the door to any Toyo dealer to sell us tires w/out having to invest in a shaving machine. I could see the price of this tire dropping a bit as more vendors are used to sell them.

But I agree. I would rather run on a tire that lasts all year and be slow, than one that is toast after 1 weekend. As long as we all are on the same tire, I don't see the issue w/ regards to grip.

[Suck fumes]

Yah you don't have to buy new tires all the time. In just saying if you want to win every time your best chance is on new tires. The life span and grip characteristics and price are almost the same as the RA1 and tread life lasts the same which is why I don't understand why everyone is all up in arms. No Shaving puts everyone on a more even playing field

[michaelmosty]

RA1's slow down about the same rate as the RR's seem to be at this point. But I didn't see guys buying new RA1's every event. We always pretty much ran the tire until it was dead.
Lets see how it works out for us before we all plan to bail.
Not having to shave a tire is a major plus. This opens the door to any Toyo dealer to sell us tires w/out having to invest in a shaving machine. I could see the price of this tire dropping a bit as more vendors are used to sell them.

But I agree. I would rather run on a tire that lasts all year and be slow, than one that is toast after 1 weekend. As long as we all are on the same tire, I don't see the issue w/ regards to grip.
Glenn, what was the fall-off you were seeing with the RA1's?

[Rob Liebbe]

Yah you don't have to buy new tires all the time. In just saying if you want to win every time your best chance is on new tires. The life span and grip characteristics and price are almost the same as the RA1 and tread life lasts the same which is why I don't understand why everyone is all up in arms. No Shaving puts everyone on a more even playing field
I don't recall anyone talking about new RA1's every weekend to be competitive, seems like guys were winning on tires that were pretty old. Oh and they did not cost $1,000 per set hahaha. Aaron, you seem to be a very competitive kind of guy hahaha, and one that seems to have a well funded racing budget hahaha. Most of us in the Texas AI/CMC group are more laid back and not well funded which is why we are here instead of Spec Miata, ST or any other super competitive and pricier groups hahaha. I'm not saying that people here don't want to win hahaha, it just isn't necessarily worth the extra cost on these tires hahaha.

hahaha


hahaha


hahaha

[AI#97]

Aaron, are you saying the RR's have the same fall off as RA1 version 2.0 or version 1.0 from 2005-2008? I remember buying RA1's for $175 ea back in 2005 or so, plus shaving.

And FYI, BFG's are the bomb! I took take offs from Misty's car and put them on the mustang for this last weekend. 23 heat cycles and still usable, but about 1-1.5 seconds off pace. Just no rain tire unless you want KDW's.

NASA CAN'T sign a contract with Nitto per their contract with Toyo. oh well. Run outlaw rules and everyone buy a container of NT-01's. Same or better life than the RA1 version 1.0. I have a set with over 30 heat cycles on it and nearly 1/2 tread left. Also have a couple other sets with 40+ heat cycles and still in great shape. Hell, that 30+ set was on the car in Houston and ran faster than the Hankooks I had and out qual'd some of the ST guys on Hoosier R100's and Yoko Advans. LOL!

I recently scratched the Yoko's and Hankooks off my "to try" list and it sounds like the RR may get scratched off too.

[marshall_mosty]

From a wear prospective, I'm generally happy with the RR's... Now if they heat cycle out, time will tell.

[MikeP99Z]

Wear for me is about the same. I only got 3 days (9-12 heat cycles) from my 5/32 shaved RA1s before they dropped off significantly. Heavy cars kill tires, I'm a heavy car (~3400#). I felt the RRs wore about the same, they were losing it by heat cycle 12. I ran them for 6 more cycles just to see the degradation, and they really really lost everything around heat cycle 15. They were still round, looked ok, no cords etc. for cycles 16-18. Almost no grooves left in 3 of 4 tires by heat cycle 18.

With the exception of the price difference I'm paying for 18" vs. 17" (personal choice to switch sizes), my use will be about the same for RR vs. RA1.

[kbrewmr2]

And FYI, BFG's are the bomb! I took take offs from Misty's car and put them on the mustang for this last weekend. 23 heat cycles and still usable, but about 1-1.5 seconds off pace. Just no rain tire unless you want KDW's.
newly introduced this year - their answer to Hoosier H20, Kumho W710, etc
http://www.philstireservice.com/bfgoodrich/bfg-g-force-kdw-r/

[ShadowBolt]

If these fall off the same as the RA1 then I don't have a problem. I was not aware of that big a drop off in the RA-1. I usually would cord a tire before it got too slow to run. This was before the current set-up on the 55 and now that I don't run so damn much negative camber the heat cycles may become an issue with either tire. So figuring half day practice with three or four runs prior to most race weekends I was seeing about 10 heat cycles per weekend. Maybe heat cycles has been an issue with me since day one and I did not realize it. From Jeff Burch talking about thin to wins I assumed we wore out the tires prior to them slowing down. Maybe we are all learning something. I thought the faster guys like Michael (and Burch back in the day) were running their RA-1's until they corded........NO?


JJ

[Suck fumes]

Aaron, are you saying the RR's have the same fall off as RA1 version 2.0 or version 1.0 from 2005-2008? I remember buying RA1's for $175 ea back in 2005 or so, plus shaving.

And FYI, BFG's are the bomb! I took take offs from Misty's car and put them on the mustang for this last weekend. 23 heat cycles and still usable, but about 1-1.5 seconds off pace. Just no rain tire unless you want KDW's.

NASA CAN'T sign a contract with Nitto per their contract with Toyo. oh well. Run outlaw rules and everyone buy a container of NT-01's. Same or better life than the RA1 version 1.0. I have a set with over 30 heat cycles on it and nearly 1/2 tread left. Also have a couple other sets with 40+ heat cycles and still in great shape. Hell, that 30+ set was on the car in Houston and ran faster than the Hankooks I had and out qual'd some of the ST guys on Hoosier R100's and Yoko Advans. LOL!

I recently scratched the Yoko's and Hankooks off my "to try" list and it sounds like the RR may get scratched off too.



The RA1's I got last year from Phil (paid him cause his shave was the best) were only about $10 cheaper than the RR. And the wear characteristics of both are about the same. With shipping from Phil the RA1's were almost $1k. So like I said the tire budget really shouldn't change much. I always bought new 3/32 tires last yr every weekend. Now that's not something you have to do but I didn't want any excuses as to why or if I lost. You don't have to buy a new set of RR's either every time. The tread will last a while but the grip starts to fade about the same as te RA1. Just try them before you develop an opinion.

[GlennCMC70]

Glenn, what was the fall-off you were seeing with the RA1's?

4th weekend and they were junk.
I could run them at 3 weekends, but it wasn't fun. This also is very track dependent. MSR-C is a slick track, but it seems to like tires w/ a weekend already on them. Hallett, as I recall (been a while) likes new rubber w/ no heat cycles.

My best recollection is new tires during weekend 3.

[MikeS]

Anyone have any idea how much Toyo pays NASA to be designated spec tire in most if not all competition classes?

[RichardP]

From Jeff Burch talking about thin to wins I assumed we wore out the tires prior to them slowing down. JJ

Officially, there is no difference between the RA-1's from back when Burch ran and the RA-1's you can buy today. Unofficially, many people believe that the older tires both lasted longer and didn't heat cycle out.

In my experience, the RA-1's from way back needed a staggering amount of lead to balance out. Then they didn't. Then they didn't last as long...


Richard P.

[AI#97]

newly introduced this year - their answer to Hoosier H20, Kumho W710, etc
http://www.philstireservice.com/bfgoodrich/bfg-g-force-kdw-r/

Mother of Hell! they are nearly $100 more each than the dry tire!

[Suck fumes]

Yah but those Hoosier h20 are unbelievable in the rain but they wear out incredibly fast. They are realllllly soft.

[kbrewmr2]

if you want to simultaneously give the middle finger to physics and the weather when it rains and you're racing, get true wet tires like those, Hoosier Wets, etc... full tread RA1s look like junk in comparison.

[michaelmosty]

4th weekend and they were junk.
I could run them at 3 weekends, but it wasn't fun. This also is very track dependent. MSR-C is a slick track, but it seems to like tires w/ a weekend already on them. Hallett, as I recall (been a while) likes new rubber w/ no heat cycles.

My best recollection is new tires during weekend 3.
That is pretty darn close to my opinion as well. After 3 weekends, if there was tire left they were only used for goofing around or as worst case scenario a spare in case of a puncture.
The 3rd weekend for me still felt pretty good, but that might be the 150 lb less weight.

I just hope these RR's don't fall off as much as we are talking. I was planning on running the RR's at TWS and Hallett but if they start heat cycling out quickly then they will be crap for the 2nd part of Hallett when the grip will be most important!! I'm thinking of running the RA1's for part of TWS so I can save the RR's for Hallett.
The purpose of CMC is budget racing. (I know, budget racing doesn't exist, haha). Buying a new set of tires for each event is NOT budget racing.

[Suck fumes]

Keep in mind most SI cars have to weigh 3440-3540 pds thanks to our rediculous power baseline of 285hp (way to low) so our cars will eat tires faster. Our tires would last a lot longer if they changed the baseline to 295hp/305tq so we could remove a lot of this weight ballast.

[smitty328]

4th weekend and they were junk.
I could run them at 3 weekends, but it wasn't fun. This also is very track dependent. MSR-C is a slick track, but it seems to like tires w/ a weekend already on them. Hallett, as I recall (been a while) likes new rubber w/ no heat cycles.

My best recollection is new tires during weekend 3.

FYI,Mike Stacy told me Hallett is being resurfaced at the end of this month.

[ShadowBolt]

That is pretty darn close to my opinion as well. After 3 weekends, if there was tire left they were only used for goofing around or as worst case scenario a spare in case of a puncture.
The 3rd weekend for me still felt pretty good, but that might be the 150 lb less weight.

I just hope these RR's don't fall off as much as we are talking. I was planning on running the RR's at TWS and Hallett but if they start heat cycling out quickly then they will be crap for the 2nd part of Hallett when the grip will be most important!! I'm thinking of running the RA1's for part of TWS so I can save the RR's for Hallett.
The purpose of CMC is budget racing. (I know, budget racing doesn't exist, haha). Buying a new set of tires for each event is NOT budget racing.

If we can get two race weekends out of them I could stand it. One is not right for a series like CMC. I used to buy 10 tires per season. If 12 would last and be fast enough for six race weekends......... I guess I should have kept up with my times because I really thought the RA1 was supposed to be good until it was gone. If we only raced on the newer tires and testing was done on older tires that would keep the cycles down. I don't have a way to carry the number of tires and wheels I would need to do that. I would need five or six wheels and tires for Qual and racing and another four or five (if something happened) for testing. Four on the car and six to seven extras. I think with my two trailer spares I can only carry three or four extra tires and wheels. Either way we are going to have to figure out a way to keep heat cycles down.
JJ

[Suck fumes]

Skip practice in the morning or just use old tires and then use RR for qualifying.

[Rsmith350]

FYI,Mike Stacy told me Hallett is being resurfaced at the end of this month.

That could be good or bad....

[ShadowBolt]

FYI,Mike Stacy told me Hallett is being resurfaced at the end of this month.
I hope this is true. Hallett with new blacktop sounds like fun.

JJ