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marshall_mosty
09-11-2006, 07:08 PM
Section 15.6.12 discusses what must be done to permit the driver’s door to be “gutted”. However, the rules don’t clearly discuss what is allowed for the passenger door. If a single diagonal or “X” door bar is utilized, how much of the OEM passenger side door structure must remain to fufill the rule?

1. No structure, door skin only
2. OEM side impact beam only and door skin
3. OEM side impact beam, inner sheet metal, and door skin

AI#97
09-11-2006, 08:05 PM
Section 15.6.12 discusses what must be done to permit the driver’s door to be “gutted”. However, the rules don’t clearly discuss what is allowed for the passenger door. If a single diagonal or “X” door bar is utilized, how much of the OEM passenger side door structure must remain to fufill the rule?

1. No structure, door skin only
2. OEM side impact beam only and door skin
3. OEM side impact beam, inner sheet metal, and door skin


my interpretation is that YOU aren't allowed to remove any more weight!!!! :P

marshall_mosty
09-12-2006, 07:22 AM
Matt,
Weight is my ENEMY!!! :twisted:

I'm trying to lose as much as I can so I can strategically place the ballast… under the car, immediately forward of the rear axle… I can use it as a skid plate!

I’d love to be 27XX with a stock K-member! That is the goal my friend.

I still need to take a cutoff wheel to the interior sheet metal. I figure there’s 5-10 lbs there for sure. Apparently the door beams are worth 5-10 apiece.

I just don’t want to remove the beam to them find out I need a new door.

AI#97
09-12-2006, 10:51 AM
Matt,
Weight is my ENEMY!!! :twisted:



That stock K-member is your bigger enemy! :wink: I look at it this way with my car....it's 130lbs over weight, has had zero shock adjustments on it since I built it in Nov 05, Weighs 3102 post race and the driver could stand to lose about 40lbs. I installed the wing which fixed the loose condition and played with tire pressures a little fix some new push.....and I keep getting faster. I think the biggest key is to get the seat time and build a reliable car that I can just drive....to heck with absolute minimum weight or most power.....I think the driver can make up for 90% of all that.

Just my $0.02....

macstang
09-12-2006, 11:16 AM
To test your theory matt, yall can trade cars and see if the driver really can make the difference.

NASA13
09-12-2006, 03:24 PM
To test your theory matt, yall can trade cars and see if the driver really can make the difference.


ahhh yes . Driver swapping is the ultimate test. Only the most secure drivers are capable.

AI#97
09-12-2006, 05:38 PM
To test your theory matt, yall can trade cars and see if the driver really can make the difference.


ahhh yes . Driver swapping is the ultimate test. Only the most secure drivers are capable.

Only issue I have is that for another driver to get the times in my car I have gotten or vice versa, you really have to push the car and I would hate to be responsible for blowing up THEIR car and wouldn't want them blowing up mine. Otherwise, put us BOTH in someone else's car then sure....I am game!!!! :wink:

Rob Liebbe
09-12-2006, 09:43 PM
Maybe Matt and Marshall should go heads up in Corey's car during HPDE in October? Nothing like pushing an unfaimliar car without good suspension or ABS!!!!! I'll shoot the video.

AI#97
09-12-2006, 10:06 PM
Maybe Matt and Marshall should go heads up in Corey's car during HPDE in October? Nothing like pushing an unfaimliar car without good suspension or ABS!!!!! I'll shoot the video.

Better Yet....06 rental car show down! Seems we have tried that before thought with Joe J and me! :lol:

marshall_mosty
09-13-2006, 07:23 AM
During December, let's rent '06 mustangs for a day and go out to MSR-C and run the 3.1 or 1.7 CW since we are unfamiliar with those configurations.

Total cost:

$60 for three sessions
$40 rental car
$50 gas

$150 to find out what you are made of... priceless! 8)

gt40
09-13-2006, 10:17 AM
Matt,
Weight is my ENEMY!!! :twisted:



That stock K-member is your bigger enemy! :wink:Matt's right, Marshall.

Give your stock K-member a flotation test and put in a Griggs or MM K-member (if you're really that anal about weight, go for the Griggs K.)

FYI, you CAN your MM control arms on a Griggs K. You just need to massage the MM arms mounts a bit. that gives you a stronger arm than the Griggs tubular arms, but cheaper than the severe duty arms.

Just be ready for your track to get a TON wider if you go with the Griggs K and the MM SN95 arms!

marshall_mosty
09-13-2006, 11:10 AM
Robert,
With my 6.0" BS 9.5" rims, I am right at AI trackwidth with the SN95 Arms on the stock K-member. That added with the 3/4" forward offset and the Steeda X2 balljoints, the geometry would be so hosed that it probably would be on the other side of where I am now.

I'm going to hold out for a MM K-member for now.

oz98cobra
09-13-2006, 04:59 PM
AI rules say this:


5.13 Door Safety Bars
In addition to meeting all the NASA CCR specifications for the rollcage, American Iron Series cars must also meet the following additional specifications. At least one door bar must be used on both the driver and passenger sides. The door window glass, window operating mechanism, door panel, and door latch assemblies may be removed, but the OEM side impact beam on the drivers side may not be removed or modified unless NASCAR-style bars or other approved door bar designs which extend to the outer door skin are added to the roll cage. NASCAR style door bars are highly recommended for adequate side impact protection.

Since the class rules (which override the CCRs) permit gutting both doors, and the intent of the rule specifying that the OEM door beam must remain unless NASCAR style door bars are fitted is to provide protection to the driver, I believe you can remove the passenger side OEM door beam along with the rest of the gutted junk. Certainly there are plenty of AI cars running around in the this configuration already!

At any rate, you certainly don't need your option 3?

Best get this from a director though to be sure.

marshall_mosty
09-13-2006, 05:25 PM
We've already thrown this around on the NASA forums and JWL didn't give a really good answer... I'm going to hold off, just incase. Hopefully there will be an official ruling from NASA for the '07 ruleset.

http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=11179

I'm currently running #2, but would like to run #1.

AI#97
09-13-2006, 05:37 PM
I found some change in the couch so here is a few cents more....

Do you honestly think texas tech shed would notice? Do you ever plan on going to nationals?

The rule is used to protect the person sitting in that seat. IF you ever plan on giving students rides, I would say leave the beam unless you plan on doing nascar bars. Not passengers....lose the fugger!

Daron, had some stuff come up and haven't had the chance to call you back....let me know when you need the tubing bender......

MW

marshall_mosty
09-14-2006, 08:34 PM
My newly mounted ABS pump right in the passenger footwell is pretty much keeping me from having a passenger ride along anymore.

I guess I'll fire up the cutoff wheel and see what the baby's worth... I'll post back when I have a number.

marshall_mosty
09-21-2006, 11:35 AM
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=11179&start=10

Issue is closed. OEM beam can go as long as you have a minimum of two bars forming an "X" or NASCAR bars.

AI#97
09-21-2006, 11:53 AM
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=11179&start=10

Issue is closed. OEM beam can go as long as you have a minimum of two bars forming an "X" or NASCAR bars.

Great! Now you are going to lose another 4 lbs! Guess I need to spend some quality time with the car this weekend to start shedding pounds. The driver has lost about 10lbs over the last couple weeks so.....

marshall_mosty
09-21-2006, 02:52 PM
We'll see where I end up for October... I do know it will be AI-X.

donovan
09-21-2006, 06:36 PM
Great, now my car is officially legal... I removed it four years ago...

marshall_mosty
09-22-2006, 10:36 PM
Great! Now you are going to lose another 4 lbs!

Matt,
The impact beam was 14.5 lbs... and the other interior metal was 2.5 lbs. That's when my cutoff wheel exploded and I quit. I've got another 5 lbs of metal that going to come out before MSR-H for sure...

AI#97
09-23-2006, 09:04 AM
Great! Now you are going to lose another 4 lbs!

Matt,
The impact beam was 14.5 lbs... and the other interior metal was 2.5 lbs. That's when my cutoff wheel exploded and I quit. I've got another 5 lbs of metal that going to come out before MSR-H for sure...

WoW! Mine weighed about 3.0 lbs each when I weighed them. probably a different kind of metal!

marshall_mosty
09-23-2006, 10:12 AM
The Fox ones are "W" shaped and mine was about 8" tall. Not really an "impact beam"... more like an "impact panel".