Speaking of Fiddy Cent Medals

[TEXAST1]

I have been racing for many seasons and I have won some really cool trophies, jackets and medals over the years. Some of my medals, SCCA Runoffs in particular, are really cool. The NASA Championship trophy is an attractive piece of glass.

How important are trophies to us? I do actually appreaciate a good trophy. Mike and I used to race harder at one the SCCA division's races becuase they actually had really cool car trophies. 8)

I already know, from talking with the Matus Group Inc. that better trophies are considerably more expensive. That being said would we being willing to pay a slightly higher entry fee to get better quality trophies and or better regional championship trophies? :?:

PS: This is just a harmless question, not a debate. :roll:

[Mike Bell]

Kevin,

First off, congrats on your podium at Nat's. My son and I were rooting for you and Matus in your respective run groups via the audio stream on the internet.

Secondly, I'd be more than willing to pay extra on the entry fee to see the awards get moved from their current low-rent status to something nicer. Since we do this stuff for fun and grins and good times it would be nice to get a trophy or plaque that is worthy of being displayed at the home or office. Just my $.02 worth on the topic.

[TEXAST1]

Hey Mike, Thanks for congrats, I was happier with the 3rd overall than the 2nd in class. It means more to beat down a large group of cars vs. being the last survivor! :lol:

I do tend to display my nicer trophies. My medals are all tossed in a box somewhere. :P

[y5e06]

would we being willing to pay a slightly higher entry fee to get better quality trophies and or better regional championship trophies?

This is just a harmless answer.
No. I'd prefer not to increase fees.

[jeffburch]

No. (further comments on current fees deleted)

jb

[GlennCMC70]

i like the current award and i even spent $400 for a frame custom made to display all of last years medals in. i have the whole season in it and its organized by event. i plan to do the same for '06 awards. i was a little shocked @ the Championship award for Texas of '05 and the Nationals. the first thing i thought when i saw the one form Nats was "thats gonna be tough to display".
if we move from what we have now, i would like to see something a little custom that would be different from one track to another, but the same each time we visit each track.
the other issue is, there are awards for 4 races each weekend, and anything of size will take up entiely too much space. the current set-up is easy to display if you are creative. thus the "i love me wall" @ my home.

[CMC17]

Ok, before I go on a rampage here, please let me thank Kevin for bringing this up and that it does warrant some serious thought.

Rant on: After winning the CMC championship back to back in 04/05 nothing is more painful than looking at the trophies there were handed out. Granted, the '05 was a little better, but it would have been even nicer if my last name was spelled correctly. With that being said, I don't think we should increase the entry fee at all. I think we could raise the yearly dues by $5 or so and dip into that fund for better trophies at the end of the year. Keep the medals for the weekend races, but make the year end trophies really special! Not for just the 1st => whatever places, but for those that have special "abilities" too (John Deere award..etc).

I'm totally disgusted at this point due to the lack of attention towards CMC/AI and AIX. Winning back to back championships mean diddly and I have diddly to show for it. If wasn't for TC using his own $$ to purchase the traveling trophy (which is really nice BTW), then there would be absolutely squat to show for all the hard work and dedication for running in the group.

I don't mind working hard for an end result, but this year I could have cared less and by looking at the points, it shows.

Rant off:

I know it's tough running an oranization and such, but besides showing up and hanging out with friends, there isn't really a whole lot of incentive. I thought about buying my own trophies (4' tall) as a reminder of what was accomplished.

Keep up the good work and ideas. Sorry to have tainted this thread.

.02

[TEXAST1]

Rant or Bragging... :lol:

My thoughts are a minimal per event entry to accomplish 2 things.

1. Better weekend trophies
2. Better Season Trophies.

Each event would cost a little more per event to buy event trophies and a portion of that money being kept to buy champion jackets or something at the end of each season to award the champs of each class.

Glenn, soon you'll be will to build a better cabinet as the new-ness of winning wears off.

Eric, I too gave Matus an earful about the first championship trophies, i don't even know where that one is. :roll:

[jeffburch]

EV, are you telling me they didn't fix the misspell?

jb

[CMC17]

I'm sure that CMC/AI/AIX will be interested in better trophies and goodies, but some of the run groups might not care (totally my assumption) and will veto the idea. I'm out to see the accolades for this group step up by a "wow" factor of x50.

My '05 trophy still sits on a shelf along with all of the other medals/trophies. Yes, the name still reads "Verner" and still pisses me off.

1. We used to get magazine press - great fodder for the scrap book I can show my grandsons later on. Not anymore
2. I was shocked that all the '04 trophies read the same for all places. 2004 Champion (a little different in color/hard to tell)
3. It would be a hoot to see some nice blinging trophies for the guys and would be something they can be proud of for their hard work.
4. Championship stickers for the car. Something that stands out apart from the "Winner" stickers. I had to buy my own in '04 and didn't buy the '05 sticker
5. I don't think it would take much to give back to those that support this series. Make 'em feel special once in a while!
6. My son's pinewood derby regional 1st place champion trophy puts everything I received to shame thus far (minus the traveling trophy).

.05

[jeffburch]

OMG!

I'm surprised no one fixed it. Then I'm not.
I nominate some slush fund money to get this fixed.

jb

p.s/
please get the nomad trophy some lemon pledge.
Get it all spiffed up. Glenn or me will appreciate it. :)

[Nick]

Add another no vote for increased entry fees.
My 2005 3rd place trophy from NASA is spelled wrong also. Todd graciously fixed the one from our group, though.

The weekend medals are fine with me, but I would like to see something better for end of year.

[Adam Ginsberg]

If wasn't for TC using his own $$ to purchase the traveling trophy (which is really nice BTW).....

For the record, Todd wasn't the only one who used their own $$ to buy the AI/CMC trophies presented to our group.

AI/CMC holds an annual banquet, handing out our own trophies, at our own cost, so raising the entry fee doesn't make sense when we fund our own.

The trophies handed out at our own banquet(s) mean considerably more to me than any of the medals/trophies NASA Texas has provided because it comes from our group of racers.

I'm all for adding another ~$20-30 per season to our AI/CMC series fund, but in no way do I want to see the entry fee raised.

[marshall_mosty]

I agree with Adam. I have my AIX "Rookie of the Year" certificate and my Lucite "2nd Place AIX" trophie proudly displayed in my son's bedroom (racecar themed). Some day he'll understand and hopefully want to follow in my footsteps. I appreciate what NASA did with the Lucite, it was a nice touch, but a little small for "year end" achievement.

I'd put another $20 in the coffer for better (nicer) or larger trophies for year end. Maybe something for 2nd and 3rd other than a paper certificate? Not that it matters for me this year, but hopefully for next year. 8)

[David Love AI27]

If wasn't for TC using his own $$ to purchase the traveling trophy (which is really nice BTW).....

For the record, Todd wasn't the only one who used their own $$ to buy the AI/CMC trophies presented to our group.

AI/CMC holds an annual banquet, handing out our own trophies, at our own cost, so raising the entry fee doesn't make sense when we fund our own.

The trophies handed out at our own banquet(s) mean considerably more to me than any of the medals/trophies NASA Texas has provided because it comes from our group of racers.

I'm all for adding another ~$20-30 per season to our AI/CMC series fund, but in no way do I want to see the entry fee raised.

I didn't even know NASATX gave award at end of year. I only knew of the AI/CMC awards at the banquet. I am very proud of my "Most Improved" certificate and have it framed.

HOWEVER in support of EV's comments, I'm not too happy about the medals not always being presented on time and the absence of the writeups. At TWS, Amber had car issues and a medal for her efforts could have lessened the heartbreak. The writeups were great for printing and leaving on the breakroom table at work for good racing conversations.

CRAP got sucked in to a negative response... trying to keep them to myself

[mitchntx]

I vote NO for increased fees of any kind.

*editorial comments deleted*

[TEXAST1]

Well the majority has spoken. I guess I am the only one who likes cool trophies and is willing to pay for them (via 8 years with the SCCA).

Last double national I ran was $425.00. Saturday: 1 practice, 1 qualifier, one race and 1 qualifier and 1 race on Sunday. That was an expensive trophy and I got a shiny silver sticker reads 2006 National Event Winner.

[AI#97]

Well, I would like to see something better from the event weekend...How about a single trophy for 1,2 and 3 for the highest points scoring driver in Race 1 and race 3? Just a thought but would add more to the fodder for the qualifying races.

medals....sure I have a stack of them from this year and couldn't tell you what any of them were for as there are no identifiers other than 1st or 2nd....and a few thirds! :wink:

I too was going to go get my own 6' trophy at the end of the year IF I win the AI TX championship....that's an accomplishment in my mind and a $13 lucite trophy just doesn't cut it in my mind. Given this may be my first and only race season with recent events, I would really like to get something out of it remember for years. I can always come down and BS with YOU guys but it's the talks over a beer at the house that could use some fuel!

Fees....they are high enough. time for the DE's to pay our bills and NASATX IS working to attempt to make this happen. The event at Unique Performance in a couple weeks is just the first step. We are going to have to stick together on this to keep things moving forward.

I will offer this up to you guys...If I can't field a race car next year I will sign up for a director roll for the AI/CMC series. I don't want to get away from racing and this group and I think that would be the next best thing to pour my energy into if I can't be out there on course with you....only time will tell.

[Boudy]

Nope, you're not the only one who likes nice trophies and is willing to pay for them. It's just that most of us feel as though we are already paying for them, just not getting them. Don't get me wrong, I haven't been around as long as most but I do share the feeling of deminishing returns for my entry fees. I like that NASA has recently designated a person to be solely responsible for marketing and write-ups. Let's just see where that goes...

As for medals and trophies:
1) It would be nice to recieve the award when you win it. Two months later just kinda takes the exitement out of it.
2) I would like to see the ante' kicked up on event medals. Something custom that we could take pride in and it's not so generic. I can personally guarantee that an investment in time, not extra money, can yeild awesome custom medals at a fraction of the retail trophy shop price.
3) I would be more than willing to toss in extra change to the fund that aquires year end trophies.

Boudy

[CMC17]

If wasn't for TC using his own $$ to purchase the traveling trophy (which is really nice BTW).....

For the record, Todd wasn't the only one who used their own $$ to buy the AI/CMC trophies presented to our group.

AI/CMC holds an annual banquet, handing out our own trophies, at our own cost, so raising the entry fee doesn't make sense when we fund our own.

The trophies handed out at our own banquet(s) mean considerably more to me than any of the medals/trophies NASA Texas has provided because it comes from our group of racers.

I'm all for adding another ~$20-30 per season to our AI/CMC series fund, but in no way do I want to see the entry fee raised.

Sorry Adam. I didn't mean to exclude you. :D I appreciate everything you and Todd have done! Thank you!!

[Adam Ginsberg]

I will offer this up to you guys...If I can't field a race car next year I will sign up for a director roll for the AI/CMC series.

Umm.....no.

[NASA13]

I will offer this up to you guys...If I can't field a race car next year I will sign up for a director roll for the AI/CMC series.

Umm.....no.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[oz98cobra]

Here's another vote for not raising entry fees 1c for better trophies at each event.

Matt got it in one - if NASA TX wants to provide us with better trophies, then raise the HPDE costs a little closer to where they should have been all along! Alternatively, seek sponsors to help find the trophies.

Personally, I agree with Glenn - the medals are fine and you can present them quite nicely if you put in a little though and effort. Any affordable upgrade beyond medals is just going to be a cheap plastic trophy or something equally cheesy anyway right?

On the other hand, Championship trophies is another story - there is no reason that championship trophies awarded by NASA TX should not be nice and classy - there aren't that many championship classes that it is going to break the bank! If money is an issue, then seek sponsors to help fund the trophies. Many car clubs do this every month/year for the trophies for their cruise nights and/or car shows - it's not a hard to do!

[Mike Bell]

I like that NASA has recently designated a person to be solely responsible for marketing and write-ups. Let's just see where that goes...



They did? Who dat?? :?:

[donovan]

I like that NASA has recently designated a person to be solely responsible for marketing and write-ups. Let's just see where that goes...



They did? Who dat?? :?:

Did I miss the TWS write up?

[AI#97]

I like that NASA has recently designated a person to be solely responsible for marketing and write-ups. Let's just see where that goes...



They did? Who dat?? :?:

Shannon has brought Bekah on board to handle a lot of this and Shannon's father who is a writer will be walking the paddock and doing interviews as well as photography to help promote the region. This is a start and will need to be refined along the way.....

[AI#97]

I will offer this up to you guys...If I can't field a race car next year I will sign up for a director roll for the AI/CMC series.

Umm.....no.

What brought you out of the woodwork....?

[jeffburch]

I like that NASA has recently designated a person to be solely responsible for marketing and write-ups. Let's just see where that goes...



They did? Who dat?? :?:

http://www.nasatx.com/documents/IntroduceJerry.pdf

jb

p.s.
Shannon handed out this to us at M-O

[Mike Bell]

Wow JB, thanks for the link/info! It appears I missed more than just great racing at Nationals lol.

[AllZWay]

I am new and really don't have a say in anything, but those little medals almost seem an insult.

My daughters get better medals for completing a tumble or gymnastic move.

And they have gotten several nice little trophies for T-ball, soccer and even a kids fishing tournament. :P

[Mike Bell]

I guess I am the only one who likes cool trophies and is willing to pay for them



Thanks Mixon. Guess my support of your idea wasn't clear? :D <--- changed to a smiley lol.

[mitchntx]

Kevin, I think the unwritten message here is not about liking nifty trophies, but rather there are other, more pressing issues that should be addressed first.

Throwing the masses cake to ease their hunger is a band-aid at best.

If all was well and harmony existed, a yellow sticky with "#1" written with a sharpie would be good enough.

It's just for fun, right?

[TEXAST1]

Sorry for missing you Mike.

My point is that I wanted to see what everyone's feeling about cost vs trophies. AS A FELLOW RACER and a Friend to most I thought I would ask about this. I am not fond of the medals as trophies, unless as said earlier, the were a little more upscale or personalized or just overall improved.

What a can of Frickin' worms... I guess I should have been more aware of the snake pit I walked into.


Daron, How much should NASA Charge for HPDE. I don't get invovlved with actual DE charges. I am sure they should need to be inline with the market as you are aware of in Texas.

[AI#97]

Daron, How much should NASA Charge for HPDE. I don't get invovlved with actual DE charges. I am sure they should need to be inline with the market as you are aware of in Texas.

Not to speak for Daron, but I would say the same as a Driver's Edge event at around $275-300 a weekend depending on venue.

That being said, I do understand the idea of putting the $200 price point out there to get the masses to give it a try. If there is going to be a price hike, there needs to be a payoff or "something special" to attend a NASA HPDE. Maybe a venue specific T-shirt like the BMW and PCA groups do to highlight the accomplishment of somone taking the risk? Gives them something to brag about at work and ADVERTISE!!!!

I would say that NASATX should appoint "team leaders" charged with advancing a single subject.....List as follows:

1. Advertising...get the NASATX brand out on the street and target attendees for the bleachers or on track. Writeups and carshows are also needing our attendance.
2. Attend to the race group's needs.....NOT JUST US, but all racers.
3. Grow the HPDE program to 100+ cars per event. This is part of advertising but if you are going to beat Rick at his specialty of running top notch DE's and attract a following, you are going to have to come up with something unique! This needs some brainstorming given we live in the drag racing belt of the world.
4. Figure out how to run a race weekend more efficiently and this could even cover better tech inspections over the weekend to prevent dead cars, wrecks or what ever.....eventually, if we want to keep 4 races in a weekend and NASATX does grow to have other run groups, we are going to have to cram in more sessions per day!!!
5. Check into new venues for racing like Eagle's Canyon and the 4 or 5 other tracks popping up soon. sorry, but I am a little tired of Cresson unless we do the 3.1 soon!!!

As you can all agree, those are big tasks and up till now, Shannon was the only one dealing with them. She is getting help and that is a good sign. I am guilty of it too but instead of being critical, we are just going to have to help out as much as we can.....

[marshall_mosty]

...this could even cover better tech inspections over the weekend to prevent dead cars, wrecks or what ever.....

I am a little tired of Cresson unless we do the 3.1 soon!!!

Matt,
No tech inspection could have spotted my failing fuel pump from the MSR-C event earlier in the year... The pump was two weekend old. :? I do still feel bad about the carnage that ensued, to a point.

I ran the 3.1 last Sunday and it's not very "race car side by side" friendly... If you were worried about body damage at Mid-O... the 3.1 shouldn't be an option, IMHO.

[TEXAST1]

All good points.
Great POSITIVE Attitude.

You are right it is alot for 1 or 2 people to handle.

However, I can see why others might get frustrated...

[micah]

Jim Pantas or someone in the S.E. region talked a sponser into donating trophies for Road Atlanta. They only have two races a weekend so our demand would be double that ,but it is a idea. Jerry w/3rd place trophy.

[dirwin]

I don't know about the trophies, I have medals and trophies from both NASA and SCCA, not much difference and they are all sitting on a shelf in the shop.

I agree with Adam, I would chip in more, just don't raise entry fees.

I had several talks with Shannon at M-O and one of them was regarding the way that things never got off schedule and is there anything to be learned from nationals that could be taken home. She did bring up a very good point, a lot of staying on schedule was whether the track crews were willing to work a "hot scene" (move cars off when the race is still going on). That is something that NASA Texas has no say, and if the wrecker driver at TWS won't get off his ass and move a car when the track is hot, things slow down. Mid-Ohio had probably better than 20 track support vehicles throughout all of the races and it didn't take them hardly anytime to clear things. Hallett, MSR-C, MSR-H, TWS: one track provided support vehicle.

Just my .02

Dave

[AI#97]

Marshall, it wasn't my intent to point our your issue but it does seem like some of the other classes have questionable cars AND drivers that need review.

Kevin, thanks for kudos but I think this mostly has to do with me looking at situations from outside of MY view given my recent situation. I guess I am feeling up my feminine side...?! :? Somebody bring me a beer before I start going off the deep end!!!!! :lol:

[TEXAST1]

Irwin, Well said! "She did bring up a very good point, a lot of staying on schedule was whether the track crews were willing to work a "hot scene" (move cars off when the race is still going on). That is something that NASA Texas has no say, and if the wrecker driver at TWS won't get off his ass and move a car when the track is hot, things slow down. Mid-Ohio had probably better than 20 track support vehicles throughout all of the races and it didn't take them hardly anytime to clear things. Hallett, MSR-C, MSR-H, TWS: one track provided support vehicle."

Dave, I don't know about your SCCA trophies, but some of mine were fantastic, come to mention it most were out of Division races mostly in the Midwest. My June Sprints trophies from Wizconsin were lazer etched with my name and all in an iron wood plaque. Something worthy of hanging up, All 3 of them :wink: I think those cost almost as much as the $400 entry fee.

:P

[TEXAST1]

Someone said earlier: "It is just for Fun"

On that point, it starts out as just for fun. Then you get competitve and loose sight of the fun, then accusations of cheating start if you aren't winning. It takes about 2-3 years. Then you want to quit and do something else. Then if you can stay involved long enough you just may find away to make it fun again. Been racing 10 years now. I have been through it, I have seen it. Outside of this post it has been fun, some people just bring me down!

If anyone has a need for "Post Race Councelling" I am a here and you now where to find me.

[mitchntx]

Marshall, it wasn't my intent to point our your issue but it does seem like some of the other classes have questionable cars AND drivers that need review.


So change your screen name to Kreskin.

I hope to some day be able to predict failures in my car.

[mitchntx]

Someone said earlier: "It is just for Fun"

On that point, it starts out as just for fun. Then you get competitve and loose sight of the fun, then accusations of cheating start if you aren't winning. It takes about 2-3 years. Then you want to quit and do something else. Then if you can stay involved long enough you just may find away to make it fun again. Been racing 10 years now. I have been through it, I have seen it. Outside of this post it has been fun, some people just bring me down!

If anyone has a need for "Post Race Councelling" I am a here and you now where to find me.

Now THAT is insight ...

[AI#97]

Marshall, it wasn't my intent to point our your issue but it does seem like some of the other classes have questionable cars AND drivers that need review.


So change your screen name to Kreskin.

I hope to some day be able to predict failures in my car.

Mitch, as a car builder, you know the difference between a well maintained race car and something someone just throws together.

And if I were to change my screen name it would be to Karnack! :wink:

[mitchntx]

Yeah, but even Schumacher has a mechanical failure now and again.

I think your expectations for this group of racers is a bit to high. We all are running on strict budgets, especially at this point in the season when budgets are stretched pencil thin.

So, cut us little guys a little slack and don't be so quick to judge, there quick draw ...

[Adam Ginsberg]

Someone said earlier: "It is just for Fun"

Where have I heard that phrase before.....


On that point, it starts out as just for fun. Then you get competitve and loose sight of the fun, then accusations of cheating start if you aren't winning. It takes about 2-3 years. Then you want to quit and do something else.

Wow.....as Mitch said, insightful.


Outside of this post it has been fun, some people just bring me down!

Kevin - you asked a question, and got answers. Isn't that why you asked the question in the first place???

As Mitch pointed out - there are other more pressing issues to address. And, as I mentioned - AI/CMC already funds season champion/other season trophies. Raising our entry fees to pay for something we already pay for isn't the right thing to do.


Marshall, it wasn't my intent to point our your issue but it does seem like some of the other classes have questionable cars AND drivers that need review.

This coming from the driver who has raced exactly 6 events with NASA.....as of today, you've not completed a full season of racing.

This all sounds so familiar......

Matt - get off your high horse. It's old, and tiresome. Mechanical failures happen, regardless of car prep. Incidents happen on track, regardless of driver experience. We don't want these things to happen, but they do. And, please recall, you made a significant car prep error this year that, by your own admission, you were aware of on track, but did not bring the car off until after the race was over....at which point the driver side rear wheel and tire left your car, and proceeded to impound on it's own.

As I said to you back in April of this year - given what we all know about racing, it's up to each driver to decide if they wish to assume the risks of our sport.

[Mike Bell]

AG, I think there may be some scope creep on the original question here. I understood Mixon's question to mean the awards given at each race event by NASA TX (neither the AI/CMC group nor the Todd Covini/Adam Ginsberg slush funds purchase those awards do they?). Those are the round medallions we receive presently on the podium finishes for each race.

So when you say:


And, as I mentioned - AI/CMC already funds season champion/other season trophies. Raising our entry fees to pay for something we already pay for isn't the right thing to do.


Since AI/CMC and Todd/Adam don't presently pay for those shiny round medallions how can you argue that it isn't the right thing to do? Two different awards funded by two different sources from my viewpoint.

Seems to me that we, the participants, pay for those shiny medallions through our entry fees. I understood the original question was simply do you want better awards funded by an increase in entry fees?. I agree that the majority who've responded have stated they don't want to raise entry fees and I'm good with that fact.

I'm glad to see you're back with us. Hope to race you in October!

[TEXAST1]

Adam, I guess my point of view is so clear to me, why doesn't everyone else see it that way too. :lol:

Since there is some obvious division on funding and would need some help on this one at ALL levels. As mentioned in another post before, what if the group had a their own fund for group "Weekend" Trophies :?: The fund would be used for not only year end but for use during the season. Then the fund could be controled and used specicically for this group.

I know some are OK with the medals but they will get old as they pile up. I will say it again. I appreciate nicer trophies and an event winner sticker, very shiney prefered. :P

[gt40]

3. Grow the HPDE program to 100+ cars per event. This is part of advertising but if you are going to beat Rick at his specialty of running top notch DE's and attract a following, you are going to have to come up with something unique! This needs some brainstorming given we live in the drag racing belt of the world.[quote]
Actually, instead of competing against Rick, why not partner with him? Rick does a damned good job at HPDEs by all accounts, and he already has some NASA drivers as instructuors, I believe. Why not forge a partnership? Let Rick bring 'em in and give 'em a taste of the crack=pipe, and when they want to go farther and start trining for wheel-to-wheel, hand 'em off to us for more race-oriented instruction?

Not only would there be more exposure for NASA, but it would allow our HPDE sessions to focus more on racecraft, and not the mixed bag it is now.

[mitchntx]

I am good friends with Rick.

Sometime when we are all sitting around the camp fire, toking on the margarita machine, I'll share what Rick said about that partner thing ...

[AI#97]

Matt - get off your high horse. It's old, and tiresome.

Wow, Adam, you go away for 2 months and you come right back to attacking me. Am I the new JG in your life to hate? WTF? Maybe this is the reason you aren't director anymore? Maybe it's just envy?.... but I will certainly watch my back when you are around in the future. You obviously have some pre-conceived notion towards me and quite frankly you can stick it up your ass.

I don't see why you are getting defensive. I am not talking about anyone specific or even in THIS group for that matter.....pull your claws back in and relax and think about those drivers in Spec 7 or other groups that consistantly are getting towed in AT EVERY EVENT.

I was going to leave this alone because it's all just stupid arguing about the negatives. Learn to look at the positives and come up with solutions or just move the fuck on. Poor the piss out of your Cheerios and STFU. You really need to think WHY you aren't part of NASATX anymore and you are proving that decision to be a good one.

Kevin, you points are all very good and yes there are others that see it your way regarding trophies....the original topic in this thread. What I might suggest is that we forward the responses to Shannon in our new chain of communication and we can start making some adjustments just as she has for the writeups and marketing efforts. We have always assumed that Shannon and Clifton were 100% in step with us and we were wrong....because we never kept them in the loop. They seem to be on our side and we need to help them help us as much as we can.

Robert, the idea sounds wonderful and reasonable but I think there is a history of some personality conflicts between the two groups that will get in the way. I will leave it at that because I don't know ALL of the details....

[TEXAST1]

Adam and Matt, Start your own post and stop high-jacking mine. However, I do appreciate your imputs as they are relivant to this thread. :wink:

Robert, your point is good. When I signed on to do this and dragged Mike Patterson into this we were here to teach RACE CRAFT not DE. I would rather not deal with regualr DE students. THey don't seem to get some of the points I make and refer to when Racing.

This is group and its developement is one of the only reasons I hang around and am still involved with HPDE. I would not want to compete with Rick, but more as you said, let him deal the first hit of race crack and well take them all the way to full addiction, like the rest of us race junkies. :wink:

[gt40]

Robert, the idea sounds wonderful and reasonable but I think there is a history of some personality conflicts between the two groups that will get in the way. I will leave it at that because I don't know ALL of the details....Well, it doesn't HAVE to be with Rick's outfit...

Any HPDE organization will do (or all of 'em.) The point is, since we're already packing a lot into a weekend with 3-4 races for each class. Adding MORE HPDE students doesn't make a lot of sense unless you move to a 3-day format, which is a hassle for most of us because of job constraints.

Move the HPDE classes (at least the beginner, novice and intermediate groups,) into another organization (Hell, it can even be one of our own creation!) which has track events on non-race weekends. Advanced HPDE and Racecraft can then be held on race weekends.

The reason it'd be good to partner with another organization would be to get the word out about NASA, using an organization (or organizations,) that already exist.

I'd like to think that someone like SVTOA and/or SAAC would love the opportunity to partner with us. They give us access to a large population of enthusiasts, and have their own marketing efforts. We give them something their members can aspire to. In SVTOA, where do you go once you've reached the fastest run group? NASA!

I think a good first step would be to get the AI and CMC race directors (and other series, as appropriate,) out to the HPDE events to introduce NASA to the students. Maybe even stage a non-points exhibition race during lunchtime once or twice a year. this can work out well for both organizations, I think. If I remember right, the exhibition race at the SACC event at Hallett went over really well.

[Mike Bell]

I seem to be on the outside of Mr. Rick Schwalenberg's circle. Guess it's my charming personality. Might be the piss in my Cheerios.

Bigger trophies, I still like that idea. More bling please........ :D

[gt40]

I seem to be on the outside of Mr. Rick Schwalenberg's circle. Guess it's my charming personality. Might be the piss in my Cheerios.

Bigger trophies, I still like that idea. More bling please........ :DAnd trophy chicks!

Err... I mean female award presenters.

[Mike Bell]

I seem to be on the outside of Mr. Rick Schwalenberg's circle. Guess it's my charming personality. Might be the piss in my Cheerios.

Bigger trophies, I still like that idea. More bling please........ :DAnd trophy chicks!

Err... I mean female award presenters.

OK Robert, it's become apparent that you are whacked out of your mind during work hours. Put down the crack pipe and come back to our little version of reality: race reports and awards, baby steps amigo.

[michaelmosty]

Matt - get off your high horse. It's old, and tiresome.

Wow, Adam, you go away for 2 months and you come right back to attacking me. Am I the new JG in your life to hate? WTF? Maybe this is the reason you aren't director anymore? Maybe it's just envy?.... but I will certainly watch my back when you are around in the future. You obviously have some pre-conceived notion towards me and quite frankly you can stick it up your ass.

I don't see why you are getting defensive. I am not talking about anyone specific or even in THIS group for that matter.....pull your claws back in and relax and think about those drivers in Spec 7 or other groups that consistantly are getting towed in AT EVERY EVENT.

I was going to leave this alone because it's all just stupid arguing about the negatives. Learn to look at the positives and come up with solutions or just move the fuck on. Poor the piss out of your Cheerios and STFU. You really need to think WHY you aren't part of NASATX anymore and you are proving that decision to be a good one.

Kevin, you points are all very good and yes there are others that see it your way regarding trophies....the original topic in this thread. What I might suggest is that we forward the responses to Shannon in our new chain of communication and we can start making some adjustments just as she has for the writeups and marketing efforts. We have always assumed that Shannon and Clifton were 100% in step with us and we were wrong....because we never kept them in the loop. They seem to be on our side and we need to help them help us as much as we can.

Robert, the idea sounds wonderful and reasonable but I think there is a history of some personality conflicts between the two groups that will get in the way. I will leave it at that because I don't know ALL of the details....
Dang Matt, I know you are the first person to say what you feel but the above post is just a joke. It's hard to take you seriously sometimes after you open your mouth and crap like that comes out. :?

[GlennCMC70]

Adam, I for one am glad to see you posting here as just another racer. We always liked you, just not in charge. (just kidding) :P

Matt, Adam gave you what you needed, a reality check. the point is not to who you were referring, but the fact that you are as much a part of what you see as a problem. your wheel could have very well fell off during the race and @ the least left you stopped in the middle of the track causing a red flag condition. you decided to not pit and check it out the very same way those other guys decided not to. we don't hold any of the "old shit" that happened "way back" against you. we do hold your negative opinion of others that have done the same thing as you against you.
before you go off explaining why Adam is not director any more, how about you spend some time in that position (i hear its open) and see how long you last. step up and place yourself in the position to make the very changes you suggest. I don't know of any problems that NASA TX or this group has that the solution to is having Adam shut the F up.
Adam, you did come in a little strong, but you did point out that shit happens.

yes, I stuck my nose in here as an attempt to stop the crap. will it work? no. and as usual, i probably made it worst.

[AI#97]

yes, I stuck my nose in here as an attempt to stop the crap. will it work? no. and as usual, i probably made it worst.

Yes.

Micheal, there is history here you don't know about and I will keep it off the forum to spare you the pain.

rest of post deleted...

[j3ffbrooks]

Am I the new JG in your life to hate? WTF?

Did you sell him car parts?

This is fun!

If I remember correctly......

Someone will quit and then show up to the next race anyway.

Sorry.....couldn't help it.

[Waco Racer]

I'd like to think that someone like SVTOA and/or SAAC would love the opportunity to partner with us. They give us access to a large population of enthusiasts, and have their own marketing efforts. We give them something their members can aspire to. In SVTOA, where do you go once you've reached the fastest run group? NASA!

NASA TX is hoping to have featured Marques and affiliated clubs as guests at each event next year. ex. GM, Ford, Z car, etc. Any help in connecting clubs with NASA would be greatly appreciated.

I would also like to have female award presenters at each event. But my wife won't let me interview any. :(

[gt40]

[quote="gt40"][quote=Mike Bell]OK Robert, it's become apparent that you are whacked out of your mind during work hours. Put down the crack pipe and come back to our little version of reality: race reports and awards, baby steps amigo.Hey! I can dream, can't I?

[gt40]

I would also like to have female award presenters at each event. But my wife won't let me interview any. :(Oh to be young and single...

Or just single...

Or young. Hell, I ain't picky. :D

I'm pretty sure I could find some. My lunch crew is on very good terms with a handfull of Hooters girls. If NASA really wants to look into this, let me know.

[mitchntx]

Matt, I realize you are going through some difficult times right now. Times are tough for a lot of us. Trust me, you don't have a corner on this market.

This is supposed to be a friendly place, but sometimes your keyboard writes checks that over-draw your friendship bank account.

Just keep in mind ... shit happens ... to any of us.

[Adam Ginsberg]

Kevin - my apologies for drawing this off course. I know you well enough to realize you are asking these questions with the absolute best intentions.

The question posted was/is:

1. Pay a higher entry fee to help fund better weekend medals/trophies
2. Pay a higher entry fee to help fund better season championship medals/trophies.

The two NASA events I've attended outside of our region ( '04 OTC and the Nationals ) provided some very nice trophies as part of our entry fee. There was no discussion about increasing the entry to to help pay for them - they were provided. The OTC trophy sitting in our game room isn't a cheapie, I can tell ya that. Granted, both of those events are "more" than the typical race weekend, however, I think you get my point.

Mike Bell is correct.....we ( the AI/CMC series ) don't fund the weekend medals - from my perspective, that's something NASA Texas should provide the racers as part of their participation in the event. Asking the racers to fund better trophies/medals at each event isn't the right thing to do, IMO. No increased entry fees to give away better medals/trophies, please. The only issue I have with the medals currently given away is they don't indicate the date or track where they were earned. That's a pretty easy and inexpensive change to make.

We ( the AI/CMC series ) do, however, fund the season championship trophies/special trophies presented at the annual AI/CMC banquet. There to, NASA Texas asking the racers to help fund this is redundant.

Drivers deserve their weekend medals at the event, when they've earned them - that's what David and Holly Donovan work so hard to make happen, and I for one genuinely appreciate their level of committment to our group. Season championship awards should be presented at a banquet just as the season ends, as we do for AI/CMC - not at the first event of the following season.

Here's a suggestion, Kevin ( and I take no credit for this....thank RP ) - how about if NASA Texas takes the $$ they were planning to spend on season champ trophies for our group, and donate it to our series fund to help pay for the trophies we present at our AI/CMC banquet????? IMO, that would show NASA Texas' support of our series/racers, and would be greatly appreciated!

Thoughts on the above suggestion, folks?

[GlennCMC70]

Here's a suggestion, Kevin ( and I take no credit for this....thank RP ) - how about if NASA Texas takes the $$ they were planning to spend on season champ trophies for our group, and donate it to our series fund to help pay for the trophies we present at our AI/CMC banquet????? IMO, that would show NASA Texas' support of our series/racers, and would be greatly appreciated!

Thoughts on the above suggestion, folks?

thats a very good idea. no reason to have 2 trophies for the same accomplishment.
i would like to see recycled engine parts - pistons, cams, connecting rods incorporated into the award. any machine shop would have a pile of these we could have. and i'm sure we have some people in our group who are talented enough to do this. but if not, our annual fund and moneys NASA TX donate (if they will) would make for a nice award.
myself, Mitch and Todd saw some cool stuff @ the Corvette Museum on the way home from Mid Ohio.

[Mike Bell]

Yeah, we're gonna need the extra cash for ANY awards at year's end: Didn't we all agree to Todd's suggestion to spend it on a party for the corner workers? 8)

[NASA13]

Here's a suggestion, Kevin ( and I take no credit for this....thank RP ) - how about if NASA Texas takes the $$ they were planning to spend on season champ trophies for our group, and donate it to our series fund to help pay for the trophies we present at our AI/CMC banquet????? IMO, that would show NASA Texas' support of our series/racers, and would be greatly appreciated!

Thoughts on the above suggestion, folks?


And with the left over money we can pay for the next "big bang " banquet for that Todd writes. LMAO
8)

[marshall_mosty]

I would like to see recycled engine parts - pistons, cams, connecting rods incorporated into the award... i'm sure we have some people in our group who are talented enough to do this... would make for a nice award. **Post edited for intention**

We had enough "spectacular" mechanical and metal carnage this year to make "parts" trophies for a while. RP/CM engine(s), DL engine/tranny, MM fender/door from TWS, EV cracked wheel from MSR-H, I should have several fuel pumps... :) , DA front corner light, RK rear brake light, MW front bumper cover, CL tranny parts, CL front spindle, JB (Brooks) timing chain, JB (Burch) hood... ohh the humanity!

[marshall_mosty]

Wow, Adam, you go away for 2 months and you come right back to attacking me. Am I the new JG in your life to hate? WTF? Maybe this is the reason you aren't director anymore? Maybe it's just envy?.... but I will certainly watch my back when you are around in the future. You obviously have some pre-conceived notion towards me and quite frankly you can stick it up your a$$.

blah
blah
blah

... decision to be a good one.




Matt,
If you truly have an issue with Adam's posts, don't be the "Hero" and call him out on a semi-public board. Pick up the phone and discuss your issues. Firestorms of shit rained down like brimstone won't help you with anything but alienation from the group.

[gt40]

RK rear brake light...You're going to have to go out to Little Bend at MSR-C to get it! :)

[jeffburch]

Adam and Matt, Start your own post and stop high-jacking mine. However, I do appreciate your imputs as they are relivant to this thread. :wink:



I agree. Someone needs to start a new post. "Director Nominations"
Once there are some 2nd and 3rd's, a new thread is started as a poll.

jb

[macstang]

[Marshall Mosty] We had enough "spectacular" mechanical and metal carnage this year to make "parts" trophies for a while. RP/CM engine(s), DL engine/tranny, MM fender/door from TWS, EV cracked wheel from MSR-H, I should have several fuel pumps... :) , DA front corner light, RK rear brake light, MW front bumper cover, CL tranny parts, CL front spindle, JB (Brooks) timing chain, JB (Burch) hood... ohh the humanity!

Umm...I have a whole car that once belonged to MB....

[oz98cobra]

Kevin asked what I think NASA TX should charge for HPDE. IMO it should be close to $275. This is the going rate for most non-sponsored 2 day DE events held in this state (DriversEdge, SVTOA, etc.) PCA is cheaper, but then those events are subsidized by wealthy corporate supporters like the Boardwalk group.

I understand why NASA keeps the price down - the perception is that they need to be cheap to attract the customer to HPDE - but I honestly do not see price as the reason that HPDE numbers haven't been where they wanted them to be.

But look at it from another point of view - NASA HPDE primarily exists as the first stepping stone towards real racing, so that is how we should gear it. I agree with whoever it was suggested that we defocus on HPDE 1/2, and look to recruit drivers from other DE orgs. Now it going to take a bunch of work to develop partnerships with any of the DE orgs, so it's going to take a while to tranistion, and some targeted marketing in the right places with help greatly.

HPDE students currently pay less entry fees than those who are racing, and yet they cost more to accomodate than the racers! They are the ones who NASA "pays" instructors to ride with, and to teach in the classroom. I'm sure reimbursing HPDE instructors cost a whole lot more on a weekend than the 9 or 12 fiddy cent medals that each race class consumes?

Another issue - one that has got some hackles up in the past when I have raised it, so please, no one take this personally - NASA TX does HPDE 1/2 very poorly compared to other DE orgs - this is not due to lack of effort, professionalism, skills or experience of any individuals, I believe it is simply because NASA weekends are primarily focused on and geared towards racing and not running DE sessions for beginners. While the classroom instructions is generally very good, with the majority of the instructors also racing, it becomes very hard for students to get the same instructor to work with for more than a few sessions, and in many cases, first time HPDE 1/2 students end up running without instructors.

Matt suggested getting 100 cars in HPDE? But what would we do with them? Run 4 groups and have all the racers give up 2 races a weekend to fit in their sessions? I don't think so! And who is going to instruct them all? 100 HPDE students with enough instructors to handle them all is a whole event on it's own!

So to me, the best plan for next year is to do the following:

1 - Reduce HPDE 1/2 - perhaps consider cutting their track time per weekend to 6 sessions - price this at say $225, which still makes it attractive to newbies, but frees up some much needed sessions for other things like racing or TT.
2 - Move towards replacing this altogether for 08 by developing marketing and/or partnerships that recruit advanced level DE drivers from other orgs.
2 - Make HPDE 3/4 more focused towards racecraft.
3 - Build up Time Trials - it's the perfect bridge between DE and racing and, despite a lot of effort by a few individuals, it isn't where it needs to be.
4 - Raise HPDE 3/4 prices to be in parity or close to race entry fees.

Anyway, that's my 2 bits worth on the subject Kevin.

[TEXAST1]

Daron, I think you are right on the money! I'll say it again: When we started HPDE is was called "Race Craft" and was geared toward students who wanted to race or wanted to get closer to it.

Many of you remember the old days when we could talk about racing in class and everyone wanted to know about it. I am usually rewarded with blank stares now days. :roll:

I have asked Matus Inc several times to dis-allow newbies. I do understand they help to pay for the event and contribute to wether or not an event is sucesseful in a financial matter. Believe it or not several events run in the red cost wise. :shock:

I think on the left coast they have HPDE only days. We would have a lot of growing to do to get there. And as Daron said there are several other quality DE groups already here and doing the 1&2s just fine.
8)

[GlennCMC70]

i think the TT thing is key. remove all HPDE 1/2 from NASA. let the Drivers Edge teach them in a more controled enviroment. target the HPDE 3/4 guys w/ other groups w/ TT. those guys have been doing HPDE long enough that they are looking for a little competition or "bragging rights". bring them to NASA w/ TT. if we do keep HPDE 1/2, cut them down to 3 sessions per day. new guys have alot going on w/ class time and track time. they need to be afforded time to look over their cars untill they get used to the routine. i paid much more than $225 per event for my HPDE track time for the 5+ years i did it.

i would also offer the TT guys a 20 minute special session instead of the 10 they get now.
also, NASA TX needs to group cars into bigger run groups. after running w/ 60+ cars @ Mid Ohio, its not gonna hurt a thing.

its starting to sound like "if i was president...."

[gt40]

NASA TX needs to group cars into bigger run groups. after running w/ 60+ cars @ Mid Ohio, its not gonna hurt a thing.I dunno -- MidO was setup well for bigger run groups (long track & two starter's stands for split starts.) I'm not sure we'd be able to handle a much larger field at short tracks like MSR-C.

[GlennCMC70]

MSR-C is the only track shorter than Mid-Ohio that is on our '07 schedule.
TWS - 2.9
MSR-H 2.4
MSR-C 1.7 or 3.1

i think we have proven we can handle more than 25 cars on track even @ MSR-C.

and the only reason we did split starts @ Mid-Ohio was some of the other region AI/X cars dont do standing starts. i think we can do it just fine.

[mitchntx]

i think we have proven we can handle more than 25 cars on track even @ MSR-C.


Not with a 20 minute race ... At TWS, a driver gets 6 laps.

The race at MO was 35 minutes long, green light to checker ... 19 laps.

[dirwin]

The only thing different at Mid Ohio was that there was no full course yellows and the track was cleared "hot" with corner yellows only. All of the tracks I have raced on down here you would have had full course yellows and re-starts with half the on track problems that took place in Ohio. I really think Shannon makes a good point here, if the track support crews can't or won't work a "hot" track, you don't get the laps.

I also think comparing Mid-Ohio is really not fair. Our tracks are old wash outs with rough facilities or "Country Clubs" that are really geared for members, not racing. Mid-Ohio on the otherhand is a very well funded (did you see the cost of the Mid-Ohio School), professionally run, full time race track that is also one of the best road courses in the country. You are asking a lot to get the Stephens Brothers to be able to run Hallett like Mid-Ohio, Scott and Shane are both great guys and the do their best, they just don't have the revenue.

[GlennCMC70]

i think we have proven we can handle more than 25 cars on track even @ MSR-C.


Not with a 20 minute race ... At TWS, a driver gets 6 laps.

The race at MO was 35 minutes long, green light to checker ... 19 laps.

what does time and # of laps have to do w/ 60 cars sharing the same 2.9 miles? we all get the same chance to win. we all qual, we all race the same # of laps, we all get the same amount of green flag time. we all start w/in 7-8 rows of each other (w/in class).

[TEXAST1]

Big D Irwin is correct. Our Facilities are just not at the level of Mid-O or several of the other "Big Tracks". That track is very expensive to rent and run. They also have a full time staff and crew at the big events. I have raced there on SCCA Regional National weekends also having good overall experience.

Dick and TWS is all about getting as much money as they can while they can.

The MSR are just that country club style facilities. I am just thankful they let us use their tracks at all. :wink:

I would say the MSRs have done a better job with track support than what I saw at TWS last event! :x

[TEXAST1]

Glenn, why only 19 laps :?: We ran 21 :wink:

[GlennCMC70]

Glenn, why only 19 laps :?: We ran 21 :wink:

hey, talk w/ the other CMC guys and find out why they only ran 18 laps! :P

[David Love AI27]

Here's a suggestion, Kevin ( and I take no credit for this....thank RP ) - how about if NASA Texas takes the $$ they were planning to spend on season champ trophies for our group, and donate it to our series fund to help pay for the trophies we present at our AI/CMC banquet????? IMO, that would show NASA Texas' support of our series/racers, and would be greatly appreciated!

Thoughts on the above suggestion, folks?

thats a very good idea. no reason to have 2 trophies for the same accomplishment.
i would like to see recycled engine parts - pistons, cams, connecting rods incorporated into the award. any machine shop would have a pile of these we could have. and i'm sure we have some people in our group who are talented enough to do this. but if not, our annual fund and moneys NASA TX donate (if they will) would make for a nice award.
myself, Mitch and Todd saw some cool stuff @ the Corvette Museum on the way home from Mid Ohio.

ARE YOU SERIOUS?! I was looking to dispose of 2 pistons with "s" shaped ros and 2 with "L" shaped ones... also 4 pieces of crank shaft, one broken block, a beatup oil pan, and numerous broken transmission pieces.... should I have pieces welded together or individually mounted on plaques or what????

If this would be for a "hard luck" award I'm NOT donating to my own award......... :shock:

[David Love AI27]

[Marshall Mosty] We had enough "spectacular" mechanical and metal carnage this year to make "parts" trophies for a while. RP/CM engine(s), DL engine/tranny, MM fender/door from TWS, EV cracked wheel from MSR-H, I should have several fuel pumps... :) , DA front corner light, RK rear brake light, MW front bumper cover, CL tranny parts, CL front spindle, JB (Brooks) timing chain, JB (Burch) hood... ohh the humanity!

Umm...I have a whole car that once belonged to MB....

OPPSS.. I forgot... no more bitching about blown motor/tranny and broken alxe..... :?

[David Love AI27]

i think the TT thing is key. remove all HPDE 1/2 from NASA. let the Drivers Edge teach them in a more controled enviroment. target the HPDE 3/4 guys w/ other groups w/ TT. those guys have been doing HPDE long enough that they are looking for a little competition or "bragging rights". bring them to NASA w/ TT. if we do keep HPDE 1/2, cut them down to 3 sessions per day. new guys have alot going on w/ class time and track time. they need to be afforded time to look over their cars untill they get used to the routine. i paid much more than $225 per event for my HPDE track time for the 5+ years i did it.

i would also offer the TT guys a 20 minute special session instead of the 10 they get now.
also, NASA TX needs to group cars into bigger run groups. after running w/ 60+ cars @ Mid Ohio, its not gonna hurt a thing.

its starting to sound like "if i was president...."

I want to keep DE!!! I enjoy having my family able to participate on the same weekends...

[mitchntx]

i think we have proven we can handle more than 25 cars on track even @ MSR-C.


Not with a 20 minute race ... At TWS, a driver gets 6 laps.

The race at MO was 35 minutes long, green light to checker ... 19 laps.

what does time and # of laps have to do w/ 60 cars sharing the same 2.9 miles? we all get the same chance to win. we all qual, we all race the same # of laps, we all get the same amount of green flag time. we all start w/in 7-8 rows of each other (w/in class).

Are you really serious?

Most of us aren't superman like you, Glenn.

We maight be better than the guy ahead of us on a single corner, instead of every corner.

So the mere humans only get 6 or seven chances at a pass.

Not all of us can pass at will ....

[CMC17]

i think we have proven we can handle more than 25 cars on track even @ MSR-C.


Not with a 20 minute race ... At TWS, a driver gets 6 laps.

The race at MO was 35 minutes long, green light to checker ... 19 laps.

what does time and # of laps have to do w/ 60 cars sharing the same 2.9 miles? we all get the same chance to win. we all qual, we all race the same # of laps, we all get the same amount of green flag time. we all start w/in 7-8 rows of each other (w/in class).

Are you really serious?

Most of us aren't superman like you, Glenn.

We maight be better than the guy ahead of us on a single corner, instead of every corner.

So the mere humans only get 6 or seven chances at a pass.

Not all of us can pass at will ....

C'mon, Mitch!!! Have you forgotten about NPR??!!?? You hit all of them there corners really well for more laps than I can remember. You were the man to beat and that F-body was wide, very wide. Control and consistency came to mind when I was trying to figure out a way around joo!! Nice driving and I have no doubts you are a superman!

[mitchntx]

Control and consistency came to mind


And that was my down fall.

Kudos goes to that SchuVarner ANALytical mind of yours setting me up and then deflating what was left of my already sensitive ego.

For the money I've spent in therapy, I could have built a Gearge of the Jungle mobile.

I haven't been the same since ...

[GlennCMC70]

Are you really serious?

Most of us aren't superman like you, Glenn.

We maight be better than the guy ahead of us on a single corner, instead of every corner.

So the mere humans only get 6 or seven chances at a pass.

Not all of us can pass at will ....

i live on the same plant as you, subject to the same gravity and yellow sun.
not sure why you want to refere to me as "superman", but thanks, i guess.
really confused w/ you right now.

[AllZWay]

"I love it when chicks fight." :lol:

[TEXAST1]

"I love it when chicks fight." :lol:


:D :D :D :D 8) 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: I am still laughing :!: :!: :!:

[mitchntx]

Are you really serious?

Most of us aren't superman like you, Glenn.

We maight be better than the guy ahead of us on a single corner, instead of every corner.

So the mere humans only get 6 or seven chances at a pass.

Not all of us can pass at will ....

i live on the same plant as you, subject to the same gravity and yellow sun.
not sure why you want to refere to me as "superman", but thanks, i guess.
really confused w/ you right now.

Make a coherent response and the confusion will subside

Let me quote it again ....





Most of us aren't superman like you, Glenn.

We maight be better than the guy ahead of us on a single corner, instead of every corner.

So the mere humans only get 6 or seven chances at a pass.

Not all of us can pass at will ....

In response to this ....




what does time and # of laps have to do w/ 60 cars sharing the same 2.9 miles? we all get the same chance to win. we all qual, we all race the same # of laps, we all get the same amount of green flag time. we all start w/in 7-8 rows of each other (w/in class).



More detail?

Folks will get impatient knowing that time is running out and makes stupid moves. It happens time and time again ...

Add more cars to the mmix and racers will get even more anxious.

[jeffburch]

"I love it when chicks fight." :lol:


:D :D :D :D 8) 8) :lol: :lol: :lol: I am still laughing :!: :!: :!:

15 yard penalty for excessive emo use! :lol:

jb

[Boudy]

"I love it when chicks fight." :lol:

OMG!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm friggin' dyin' here. That's the funniest shit I've heard since, "I was teellin' Gleenn..." :lol: :lol: :lol: Hell, I've got tears...

OK, Proctor is President for a day. I needed that. For the first time since my trailer break-in, I actually feal like dragging the car to Houston.

Thanks dude,

Boudy

[GlennCMC70]

sldjk;vnonvonvawvav val;weo;fmv <------- (another non-coherent responce)

[NASA13]

Are you really serious?

Most of us aren't superman like you, Glenn.

We maight be better than the guy ahead of us on a single corner, instead of every corner.

So the mere humans only get 6 or seven chances at a pass.

Not all of us can pass at will ....

i live on the same plant as you, subject to the same gravity and yellow sun.
not sure why you want to refere to me as "superman", but thanks, i guess.
really confused w/ you right now.

LMAO

" I am really confused by your tactics, and I am going to keep acting tough until I figure you out."
shake and bake fellas shake and bake.

[AllZWay]

I can't take credit for the line. That is Mitch's line.... I was just using it against him. :D

[TEXAST1]

It is all about timing. :wink:

[gt40]

Folks will get impatient knowing that time is running out and makes stupid moves. It happens time and time again ...I think I follow this...

This is my take on it.

Let's say you and a competitor are pretty much dead-even on the track. Close enough in lap times to where you can't pass him except maybe at one specific corner (I'm thinking of the entry to Rattlesnake at MSR-C, for instance.) The more laps you run, the more times you'll navigate that corner. the more times you navigate that corner, the more chances you'll have to get past him.

So having more laps is to your advantage -- in that situation.

[mitchntx]

Thank you Mr. King

[Waco Racer]

Sounds like somebody needs to clean the cats out of his car and Man-up :!: :o :)

[mitchntx]

maybe so ...

[GlennCMC70]

the same end result can come from 2 cars on the track.
last comment on the matter. 8)

[oz98cobra]

Not quite the last Glenn - I'll chime in! ;)

60 cars on most of the tracks we race on? Major safety issue and I'll go find somewhere else to race if gets like that!

I assume that you mean we have to combine more groups into one big one so we all get more track time? That's even worse because now we have an overcrowded track with cars of disparate capabilies - Spec Miata fields with 40-45 cars worked OK because they were of similar performance, but mix it up between groups, and you've got a huge problem - even with 20 minute races!

[macstang]

FWIW, i ran the CMC 44 in a Performance Touring class at nationals (which Clifton was the race director). We started with around 50 cars (I think) and they were all different speed capabilities with differences between the fastest and slowest being 20-30 seconds per lap. I dont think we had any issues because of the speed difference, and I did enjoy it because it gave me experience passing cars that were not in class with me, rather than always being the slower class and being passed.

And no Matt, when I started 50th, and finished 25th, they ALL didnt point me by...lol

But some did-they knew enough to stay out of the way.

Likewise, I did point some out of class cars by.

[TEXAST1]

I am not sure on the exact number but, SCCA allows 25 cars per mile of track and considers it safe. :shock: :roll:

I have raced Mid-O with 54 A/S cars what a train wreck!

[AI#97]

I am not sure on the exact number but, SCCA allows 25 cars per mile of track and considers it safe. :shock: :roll:

I have raced Mid-O with 54 A/S cars what a train wreck!

I thought it was 50 per mile?! I have heard stories of 90 car fields up on M-O.....don't know if that is true or not but certainly scary!