Public Shit List now active.

[GlennCMC70]

Click the link.
http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=130528&p=490953#p490953

I had a conversation with Chris McComb and mentioned we used to keep a AI/CMC/SI shit list for contact. I think Al used to do it. The conversation was a result of drivers asking if there were penalties assessed to driver X for contact. I realized that too often penalties are handed out, but only the Officials and the parties involved know the outcome. Sometimes drivers assume there was no penalty if they don't get told there was. This is compounded when a Series Official is involved. So I asked Chris if we could get back to tracking this. He got with Will and here we are. Other Regions do this and they have had good success.

Please provide your input regarding the idea of hitting a point limit (to be determined) for preventing those who exceed the limit from winning a Regional Championship.
Who is in favor or against?

[Pranav]

In favor. Damn that list is short.

[Suck fumes]

That's cool. Kind of funny our ex owner of our region is on the list.

[GlennCMC70]

I don't see the humor. Not the first time either.

[Casey_SS]

I really like that we're doing this now. I've heard it debated both ways a number of times, glad to see it happening. Kudos to Glenn, Chris, and Will.

You asked for input on points limits so here ya go:
In the spreadsheet, it calls out an automatic IRB review at 10 points. I fully agree with that and would suggest either 12 or 13 points as the limit for regional championship eligibility. Can't imagine racking up 12 points without repeatedly making really bad decisions but I dunno....maybe it's possible. For extenuating circumstances, form an IRB to decide whether an exception should be granted.

This could only apply to nationals if all regions work out a consistent system. I wonder if that's realistic but obviously it would be pretty awkward for Crashy McCrashesALot to be ineligible at the regional level but in "good standing" for nationals.

[MikeP99Z]

I wouldn't be so quick to assign a max point total for a Regional champ DQ. Points are assigned for various reasons, hence the review after 10 points. Pass under a waving yellow is 6 points, do that twice in a year and you will be reviewed (12 points) even never having a contact incident. Review result could mean probation, suspension, loss of license, etc.

Who is worse? The guy who had 2 awareness issues or the guy who hit someone else 4 times to get 12 points.

[Suck fumes]

Lack of awareness can be just as dangerous as contact and it can lead to people getting hurt too.

[RyanR]

In favor. Damn that list is selective.

Fixed that for you!

If penalties are handed out accordingly wouldn't that put the regional championship out of reach for a habitual offender?
IMO if you are going to have public list then make sure all the offenders from the weekend are on it!

[Suck fumes]

You left off Chris Haldeman in spec iron from cresson. Dad filed paperwork on Sunday.

[michaelmosty]

I agree, I hope this is just a sample and not the actual list.
I'm guessing there are a good 5+ incidents from the first two events that are not even listed.

[MikeP99Z]

Lack of awareness can be just as dangerous as contact and it can lead to people getting hurt too.

I don't disagree. Just putting it out there that there are a variety of ways to get to 10 points real quick.

[MikeP99Z]

I agree, I hope this is just a sample and not the actual list.
I'm guessing there are a good 5+ incidents from the first two events that are not even listed.


You'll have to ask Chris about Cresson. I did what I could to capture the Thunder and Blitz groups from MSRH (i was the RD for both). If there are any additions to MSRH, please email me. I only had paperwork on the ones I listed, and we were asked to compile a month after the event to start this thing. Al may still have some inputs for SM from Houston, and Clifton may have input for SM at Cresson.

The RD is now responsible for inputting info from their respective RD group (ie - normally Blitz for me).

[Fbody383]

Since the basis of this group is sportsmanship, I like the idea of making this list clear, concise, and public. I do have a concern that "we" need the right perspective so lower point/more aggressive drivers are NOT allowed to take advantage of the list.

What is the goal of the list - to know when and how much to punish a driver, or to have a tool to encourage appropriate changes in behavior?

What about this example - after a valid complaint at MSRH, we made an incomplete crankcase vent change to the 39 that directly contributed to debris, two cars completely off track, one major spin, and multiple cars having to avoid contact. Inadavertent though it may have been and without "real" damage, i.e. passing under waving yellow, it did change the race dynamics for all involved.

[GlennCMC70]

2 things.
1) Should have been clear that the list was a work in progress w/ emphasis on events going forward and not back dating the data. This all transpired post MSR-C.
2) perhaps we should limit visibility of points totals for the reasons David pointed out. If a guy is @ 9 points, I see him as an easy pass.

[RichardP]

perhaps we should limit visibility of points totals for the reasons David pointed out. If a guy is @ 9 points, I see him as an easy pass.


If you are fighting with him in the championship, I see it as an opportunity to pay someone else with low points to bump him...


Richard P.

[michaelmosty]

If you are fighting with him in the championship, I see it as an opportunity to pay someone else with low points to bump him...


Richard P.
Very funny!!!

[GlennCMC70]

Will work for penalty points.

[JMR81]

I don't see a problem with keeping a database of penalty points. Series director, Race director should have access to the information and individual's should be able to see the data on request.
Posting them on a public forum I'm not sure that is something I support.

[dtanker65]

I don't see a problem with keeping a database of penalty points. Series director, Race director should have access to the information and individual's should be able to see the data on request.
Posting them on a public forum I'm not sure that is something I support.

I concur with this. Posting on a public forum would, it seems to me, create headaches for the series and race directors who should be left to judging the available evidence. Having individual access to the data on request would allow the opportunity to request appeal of penalty.

[rleng1]

Come up with a better name than the naughty list. If it is going to be used and distributed, have a name where everyone understands the implications. I like the column where the specific penalties are accessed.
Penalties should be discussed in drivers meetings so that every driver understands the penalties accessed if he/she makes the same decision.

[Fbody383]

Come up with a better name than the naughty list. If it is going to be used and distributed, have a name where everyone understands the implications. I like the column where the specific penalties are accessed.
Penalties should be discussed in drivers meetings so that every driver understands the penalties accessed if he/she makes the same decision.
Supervisors
Historical
Interaction
Table

[rleng1]

Where's Mitch when I need him?

[Al Fernandez]

Back when this was a spreadsheet I maintained and emailed updates to all of the RDs it was called the shit list. More appropriate :)