Directors and General Bitch Fest

[TEXAST1]

At Jeff's Request I am putting a director nomination and general bitch fest thread, so we can keep our other threads clean and clear.

I would like to see some of the biggest complainers nominate them selves or someone to be a director. It would be benefiscial in several ways:

1. Bring some new blood with new ideas
2. Take some pressure off of the current staff
3. Getting involved rather than just slinging shit from the sidelines
4. The entire organization could benefit from better participation at this level.

Feel free to add to this thread or continue to bitch about the general going on. 8)

[Waco Racer]

I thought one of the goals from the meeting in August was less bitching and more racing.

[TEXAST1]

It didn't get through or some were absent. :lol:

[GlennCMC70]

i nominate myself. there.
i'll get about 1 vote, so no worries. :roll:

[CMC17]

What are some of the incentives/benefits that come along with the director title?

1. Whiping boy?
2. Scape goat?
3. Pages of relentless private messages complaing from other racers?
4. Appreciation (or lack there of)?
5. Contant background checks to see if illegal tricycle wheels were used back in the 70's?


*List is a living document and may be changed or modified

:lol:

[AI#97]

What are some of the incentives/benefits that come along with the director title?

1. Whiping boy?
2. Scape goat?
3. Pages of relentless private complaing from other racers?
4. Appreciation (or lack there of)?
5. Contant background checks to see if illegal tricycle wheels were used back in the 70's?


*List is a living document and may be changed or modified

:lol:

sounds like you have a clear understanding of the role.....I nominate you! :lol:

[CMC17]

What are some of the incentives/benefits that come along with the director title?

1. Whiping boy?
2. Scape goat?
3. Pages of relentless private messages complaing from other racers?
4. Appreciation (or lack there of)?
5. Contant background checks to see if illegal tricycle wheels were used back in the 70's?


*List is a living document and may be changed or modified

:lol:

sounds like you have a clear understanding of the role.....I nominate you! :lol:

Uh.. no thanks lol
I've already had my fill of or have been included in #3 and #5. No thanks regarding the rest of the list. :lol:

Just trying to draw a clear conclusion. ;)

[marshall_mosty]

Glenn,
If your wife allows you to race, build race cars, AND be AI/CMC director.... you're DAMN LUCKY!!! 8)


On topic, maybe we can have a ballot box at the AI/CMC dinner with "mail in" votes from those who cannot attend. That would give people time to think about it... hell, we could even have a podioum for speeches!!

We could solicit the tabulation prowess of the Accounting Firm of Ernst & Young... or something. If not, my 3 yr old can count to 15'ish... he might be up for the job of vote tally boy.

[GlennCMC70]

and back in 1999 we spent the day out @ Ennis drag racing my 98 on Feb 14th.

ya gotta wear the pants son, if you dont, she will. :P

[jeffburch]

Self nomination doesn't count.
If someone nominates you, you can bow out.
After the poll you have to have the blessing of J&S aswell as the boys on the westcoast (JWL,TG etc.)
Oh, it can't be a ford guy either :wink:

jb

[donovan]

Did I miss something... we are voting for a Director?

Is Todd not our Director?

Pass me a clue please...

:?

[GlennCMC70]

David, i think we are all looking for a replacement for Adam. i think Jeff is right w/ the criteria he listed. i also think an AI driver should control CMC and a CMC driver control AI. totally removes the "conflict of intrest" issue.

[donovan]

David, i think we are all looking for a replacement for Adam.

Nobody can replace Adam... :evil:

Do we really need to replace him, is there a reason why we need a second director?

I think the other regions have just one director, I could be wrong. I know the west coast has one for AI and something like 12 for CMC... but the other regions just have one... or am I wrong?

[TEXAST1]

Double D,

I think there is a need for second director. With all of the expectations and responsibilities that are placed on Todd I can't see the need not to have a second or assistant or assistant to the assistant.

Everyone rants about things not being done or not done as qucikly as neccessary. A little delegation may go along way. :shock:

[donovan]

KM, I agree 100% I just want to hear it from everyone else... but all I hear is bitching and wishing…

Rant on.

You have 25 people giving their opinion as to how they think it should be run, and 20 of them have only been doing this for 24 months or less.
(I know I’m going to get some shit for that statement, but it’s true) I’m in the same position; I have only run three seasons… But I know how to be professional too!

What I'm getting at here is that NASA Texas is working on these issues; we have not had an event since the Big Bang meeting. Todd has been doing this for a long time, way before NASA Texas was around and I trust his opinions and style of running our series.

I have no current issues with NASA Texas or Todd or National. I trust they are working on it just as they said they would, I have no reason to believe they are not, yet!

I have no interest is debating on this forum if we need a new director or assistant director, now if a request came from J&S, game one. Without them actively reading this and posting up their requirements, duties, responsibilities and expectations this is all just a waste of time. They might not want one right now… or maybe they do… I don’t know.

If this is an issue you/we would like to take up with J&S let them in on it. Let’s get in touch with them and set up a meeting Saturday night at the next event. Be professional, organize yourselves, create a list of issues and create you own list of duties & responsibilities you want the new Assistant Director to have, describe to them the ideal Director, hell describe to them the ideal NASA Texas Director!

Have the meeting you really wanted to have instead of the Big Bang meeting.

I don’t have much more to say… just that if you want something done, go to the source or the man in charge, in this case the woman in charge.

I’m excited about the next event, I’m excited to see what NASA Texas has in store for us and I’m excited to see what Todd has to say about next season!

Rant off.
DD

[GlennCMC70]

i dont think anyone is planning to replace Todd.
i also dont see anything wrong w/ an "open discussion" on an issue and getting our ducks in a row before we bring this before NASA TX (lets stop refering to them as J&S as the J is no longer).
i find this type of responce from you David as being odd. there must be something i'm missing. i sure hope so.

[donovan]

My thoughts of "Open Discussion" is to involve both parties, there is nothing wrong with getting your ducks in a row… (I just have not seen it happen much here) read on and you will understand me more, maybe.

I guess I'm a little tired of the group in general just complaining on the board.

I would prefer someone post a new message:
Subject: As a group lets get a list of items we could like to talk to NASA Texas about.

1. Director and Assistant Director
a. Our list of what we want in a Director
b. Our list of what we want in an Assistant Director
2. What we expect from NASA Texas
3. Trophies and Medals
4. Etc…

I would prefer a more proactive approach to these sorts of items.

Heck, KM could not get a simple answer about medal and trophies without dishing up all sorts of history and crap, this group has issues, we all know it.

Glenn, I believe we all have the same end results in mind, I just have a different way of getting there and I'm a bit frustrated with the process I see starting before me. Maybe I’m just a minority here and I need to keep my thoughts to myself.

The only thing you’re missing is I'm looking in from the outside; I have a completely different perception and I guess I have a different way of dealing with things that are bothering me, I go to the source of my frustrations, I work from the top down not the bottom up. I prefer to involve both parties from the beginning to make sure I understand both sides completely. Don’t get me wrong, get info from the group, run it up the flag pole, and then take it to the source.

I have always talked directly with Shannon, Clifton, Todd, and Jay when I have issues.

I think KM had the right approach, I would like to see others follow along.
DD

(I refer to J&S because Jay is still an owner of NASA Texas, that was made clear a couple times by both of them when I asked about it.)

[mitchntx]

I have always talked directly with Shannon, Clifton, Todd, and Jay when I have issues.


Why have a director at all?

Everyone has their "favorite" path to the top. We've all witnessed the tire tracks, hoof prints and muddy feet prints on Todd and Adam's back in order for folks to "get their way".

It's like elementary school ...

CCR, rules, protocol and simple respect be damned ... there is no clear and consistent path in order to have issues addressed.

Ever wonder why the Kalifornia region doesn't seem to have these threads? Doesn't it seem odd? Isn't anyone curious as to why?

It's simple ... racers know who they are supposed to discuss series issues with. There is a clear chain of command and without a power struggle. And the racer's respect that chain.

For those with kids, how do you feel when little Johnny comes up and asks for something, you say no for a legit reason and then Johnny goes and asks Mom and she says yes. Who's to blame?

Dad? Mom? Johnny?

They all are. Mom and dad obviously have 2 different agendas and Johnny knows how to play the 2 of them against each other.

We're no different.

So I ask the question again ... why would ANYONE want to be a director in this disfunctional family?

/rant

[GlennCMC70]

gotcha.
i think this is us getting organized before we all get w/ NASATX and realize we all dont agree. if we approch them as a group and say "this is what we think", that would go a long way.

this forum is about the only place to get organized.

what if someone here thinks Todd should and can do it all and there is no need to replace Adam? why not hash that out now.

dont think of all this internet posting as bitching. to this day i still cant understand why posts on the internet always get interpreted as bitching.

you are right about there being alot of bitching here on the board and not enough to NASA TX. but isnt that what Todd is there for? to carry our complaints to NASA TX on our behalf? is that not being done? is he not being our representative?

just asking.

i think it was good of Kevin to ask what we thought of the medals and stuff. we all seemed to agree thats kinda a non issue @ this point. we all agreed the year end stuff was lacking. Kevin can still go and ask NASA TX to provide more bling and he would be willing to pay more for it. he just wouldnt have the backing from this group. he came here for it. he didnt get it.

the big bang meeting @ TWS i thought hashed out what we wanted from our director(s). done and over.
we also spoke to NASA TX about what we wanted from them. done.
so 2 of the 5 line items you listed have been brought up to NASA TX's attention. we have not had an event since then, so we have no idea what has changed.

what is happening is we are comming down to our last event and we havent filled the void left by Adam. we havent seen any conversation from NASA TX about it. we havent planned a meeting amoung ourselves to address it. my '07 season starts Oct 23 2006. i would like to leave MSR-H w/ confidence that the 2007 season WILL be better.

David, you have always been a positive person as far as i can tell. it was just strange seeing your post w/ a negative undertone to it.

i hope we all can have a sitdown at the track saturday night and have a civil talk.
go ahead and start a new thread about line items we need to address.
there is a positive twist to all this. NASA TX was @ Mid Ohio and they saw how smooth a LARGE event can run. i hope they bring thier expectations up to the level of what was seen @ Mid Ohio.

[GlennCMC70]

I have always talked directly with Shannon, Clifton, Todd, and Jay when I have issues.


Why have a director at all?

Everyone has their "favorite" path to the top. We've all witnessed the tire tracks, hoof prints and muddy feet prints on Todd and Adam's back in order for folks to "get their way".

It's like elementary school ...

CCR, rules, protocol and simple respect be damned ... there is no clear and consistent path in order to have issues addressed.

Ever wonder why the Kalifornia region doesn't seem to have these threads? Doesn't it seem odd? Isn't anyone curious as to why?

It's simple ... racers know who they are supposed to discuss series issues with. There is a clear chain of command and without a power struggle. And the racer's respect that chain.

For those with kids, how do you feel when little Johnny comes up and asks for something, you say no for a legit reason and then Johnny goes and asks Mom and she says yes. Who's to blame?

Dad? Mom? Johnny?

They all are. Mom and dad obviously have 2 different agendas and Johnny knows how to play the 2 of them against each other.

We're no different.

So I ask the question again ... why would ANYONE want to be a director in this disfunctional family?

/rant

not sure why we need to talk about why anyone would want it.
why would anyone race a ford, a chevy, a front wheel drive car, a rear wheel drive car?
there are those who feel as though they can make a change and will try no matter how negative of a spin you can put on it.

turn that frown upside down and have a sun shiny day. :wink:

[donovan]

David, you have always been a positive person as far as i can tell. It was just strange seeing your post w/ a negative undertone to it.

Oh, I will be the first to admit it was definitely out of character for me, I don't get frustrated much. I just could not sit back and say nothing, I felt I need to speak. I'm am normally fairly relaxed and happy. Just take a look at my face when I get out of the racecar sometime, no matter if I finish first or last I still have a smile!


I hope we all can have a sit-down at the track Saturday night and have a civil talk.


Any conversation from me will be civil, looking forward to talking with you.

You have a PM on the way; I have a few things that I can not post publicly.

DD

[AI#97]

i hope we all can have a sitdown at the track saturday night and have a civil talk.
go ahead and start a new thread about line items we need to address.
there is a positive twist to all this. NASA TX was @ Mid Ohio and they saw how smooth a LARGE event can run. i hope they bring thier expectations up to the level of what was seen @ Mid Ohio.

Glenn, to answer your question about why this all seems like "bitching" is because human nature sees anything in writing as a way to complain or CYA. IT's also human nature to focus on the negatives and ignore the positives. The way we take someone's post on this forum will ALWAYS be swayed by the way you see that person. Granted some of us have helped those bad opinions of ourselves by getting overly dramatic but the fact still stands NONE of us can be fully objective.


My $0.02 on the whole thing is let's start from scratch. First off, what is the expected chain of command? We SHOULD be sending all concerns through our series director and those get forwarded to J&S. If that isn't happening, then Todd cannot be held responsible and Mitch's point of "why do we need a director at all" becomes valid. We can police ourselves for technical violations.

Overall, this has spiraled into a mess and by us constantly pissing and moaning over it here behind the security of a computer screen has accomplished nothing. We all realize it and still seem to be attracted to it like a bug to a windshield. We just need to all let it go and get on with enjoying racing and telling stories and drinking beer. I would guess that is what we all signed up for.....? If we stray away from that, then this "relationship" of the group and series is doomed.


Good grief....I am starting to sound like my marriage counselor....but these truths hold here as well. Let's refocus on what works, tweak the minor issues and get back on with our lives.....

MW

[TEXAST1]

I was just thinking as Matt was talking about the chain of command... With the SCCA and PCA, I don't rememeber having a chain of command or seriers director. Either you spent money to confirm your issues or just complained privately to your spouse.

I think the positive is their are opportunites to fix issues or to make the group better for all. :D

[dirwin]

Kevin is dead on, there is no "chain of command" in SCCA. File a protest, pay the fee, or bitch among yourselves, there is no series directors to beat on.

NASA is attempting to give the racers and groups a voice, not just in Texas, but all over the country. Sometimes, in some organizations, republic or democracy type setups just can't be had. I promise you, opinions are needed for a baseline, but if you try and run this, or any other business, solely like a democracy you will fail. Someone has to be in charge and make decisions that are best for the business, whether it offends a few individuals or not.

[Mike Bell]

I have always talked directly with Shannon, Clifton, Todd, and Jay when I have issues.


Why have a director at all?


CCR, rules, protocol and simple respect be damned ... there is no clear and consistent path in order to have issues addressed.



I agree with you Mitch.

[jeffburch]

Kevin is dead on, there is no "chain of command" in SCCA. File a protest, pay the fee, or bitch among yourselves, there is no series directors to beat on.

NASA is attempting to give the racers and groups a voice, not just in Texas, but all over the country. Sometimes, in some organizations, republic or democracy type setups just can't be had. I promise you, opinions are needed for a baseline, but if you try and run this, or any other business, solely like a democracy you will fail. Someone has to be in charge and make decisions that are best for the business, whether it offends a few individuals or not.

This may be true if we are employees.
I and my buddies here are customers.
This is a customer forum.
Remember why FoodLion went out of biz?
We are the guys standing in a checkout line asking one another what is that smell?
Not a jab here DI, you are my buddy too.
Only a friendly and respectful reminder from a blue collar (democratic) type.

jb

[dirwin]

Jeff, no jab taken and this is not a jab either. I just look at it a little different. Being in a retail business I do know that if I where to do everything that my customers wanted I would be out of business. If you talk to most customers, they want dealers to be open 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, both in sales, and service, sell every car for less than the dealer pays the manufacturer then throw in bed liners, running boards etc... This would make them happy and run the dealership out of business. Does the customer then feel bad? No, just wants the same thing all over again.

As a business owner I have to balance making most of the people happy most of the time and stay in business doing it. This applies to employees and customers.

Customer perspective or owner perspective, the game is still the same. A balancing act where the rules change hourly.

[Adam Ginsberg]

NASA is attempting to give the racers and groups a voice, not just in Texas, but all over the country. Sometimes, in some organizations, republic or democracy type setups just can't be had. I promise you, opinions are needed for a baseline, but if you try and run this, or any other business, solely like a democracy you will fail. Someone has to be in charge and make decisions that are best for the business, whether it offends a few individuals or not.

I've stayed out of this, and many other discussions so that I don't look like a "disgruntled former series director", but David really hit on something that should be expanded.

Previously, I came out in my typical "It is what it is" fashion, however, it's not hard to see it wasn't an attack - it was a pointed response.

So....I'm going to say my peace here so that folks understand a few things, because they need to be mentioned.....and I'll leave it at that.

David Irwin said it very well - in any business, decisions are made that benefit the company as a whole, but not always suit all the employees - but those decisions have to be made. Granted, we are customers, and not employess, but the analogy is still very similar. Coming from a former union background in my early 20's, this was a tough concept to understand. I've worked for a large corporation for over ~13 years, and my perspective has changed a bit.....and I better understand those types of decisions. That doesn't mean I always agree, but I understand it better.

Since 2003, we ( Todd and I ) always tried to do what was best for the series, which may or may not have fit well with some individuals. We made decisions that some didn't always agree with - we understood that. However, a few would circumvent the "chain of command" to get the decision they wanted, regardless of what was good for the group as a whole. Since going around the series directors suited a few of the folks in charge, and, naturally, those who were looking for the answer that suited them best, the ability to manage the AI/CMC series has eroded to the point of near ineffectiveness.

The "chain of command" was an issue talked about since 2003, and each and every year into 2006 - it's nothing new, at least from a series director's perspective. However, it's been ineffective because it's not supported by some of those above the series director(s). Folks figured out that weakness very quickly - and used it to their advantage.

That's why AI/CMC racing in Texas is where it is today. I'm genuinely disappointed it's gotten to this point, and don't know where it will go from here. It kills me to see our series in Texas torn apart - we've all worked very hard to grow this group from a small group of 10 or 11 "friends" in 2003, to 41+ points accumulating drivers in 2006.

Someone made the comment earlier of not believing anyone wanted Todd gone, too......go back do some research, and you'll find that is incorrect. Realistically, from my experience, knowledge and perspective and insight.....Todd is the man who can properly lead this group, and the series. Continuing to go around the series director(s) will only further hasten the downfall of the AI/CMC series in Texas.

Take it for what it's worth.....but the series director is on your side. Keep in mind, however, that doesn't mean you'll always get the answer you want when you ask a question.

Adios.

[Mike Bell]

I see it a bit differently AG, of course it's only my silly opinions again :)






Granted, we are customers, and not employess, but the analogy is still very similar.

Respectfully, that's where your analogy breaks down IMHO. There is NO similarity to an employee vs customer in my viewpoint.




Since 2003, we ( Todd and I ) always tried to do what was best for the series, which may or may not have fit well with some individuals. We made decisions that some didn't always agree with - we understood that. However, a few would circumvent the "chain of command" to get the decision they wanted, regardless of what was good for the group as a whole.

An organization that allows such circumvention is what allowed things to be decided "regardless of what was good for the group as a whole". Basically, you guys were usurped by your superiors - for better or worse. Putting this off onto one of the paying customers is chosing to look at the symptom and NOT the real problem IMHO.



Since going around the series directors suited a few of the folks in charge, and, naturally, those who were looking for the answer that suited them best, the ability to manage the AI/CMC series has eroded to the point of near ineffectiveness.

Again, this is the result of the problem referenced above IMHO. The series was being managed by you two and also from above without consensus from what I hear and see.



The "chain of command" was an issue talked about since 2003, and each and every year into 2006 - it's nothing new, at least from a series director's perspective. However, it's been ineffective because it's not supported by some of those above the series director(s). Folks figured out that weakness very quickly - and used it to their advantage.


Again, you two were getting put in the middle, your position was eroded by your chain of command superiors, not by the paying customers IMHO.



That's why AI/CMC racing in Texas is where it is today. <snip> Continuing to go around the series director(s) will only further hasten the downfall of the AI/CMC series in Texas.

Agreed. How to move forward from here is the operative question from where I sit. Todd has gone into the deep freeze (I don't blame him, been hotter than hell in here lately) and info has stopped flowing. Either Clifton's "Chain of Command" is what NASA TX wants or it needs to be revisited - no sense making Series Directors sit on the hot seat if they can be circumvented with a phone call.

[Waco Racer]

Much of the circumvention of the "Chain of Command" has been linked to a few phone calls and a chance meeting that resulted in no direct influences to decisions made by NASA Texas. There were personal issues and agendas linked to these conversations and those were kindly put to the side. One of these people hid behind a title and one didn't care. I have heard the term "witch hunt" used and unfortunately this concept was introduced by a Class Director. Just because a Director, Tech Inspector, or Official targets an individual for an infraction there should not be any personal malice involved in any decision. Granted, procedures have not always been followed, and that leads to speculation. I can tell you right now that NASA puts its' confidence in me to make the right decisions for this Region, and when I have enough information to make a decision I do it. You think that a Class Director is caught in the middle? I consult with John Lindsey, Shannon and Jay, Adrian, Class Directors, and racers before I rule, and I hear plenty of personal opinions, but I disregard that and make the best decision for NASA. You want consistency from NASA Texas, but, each of you seems to complain when we try to establish that. Has NASA Texas made some mistakes? YES. Have Class Directors made mistakes? YES. Have racers made mistakes? YES. But, rest assured I am going to be in every ones business starting now. This group is the neediest of all classes I deal with. Most other classes look at this group as its’ own entity, not because of the great racing, awesome cars, and camaraderie. They look at all of the on course contact, bickering, and complaining. This is embarrassing for a series that should be the crown jewel of NASA Texas. I have been Mr. Nice Guy for 2 1/2 years, except for 1 day, and now I have to stop. Each and every one of you has a significant investment in your series and you each need to look at a few things.
1. What is my contribution to the series? Beyond having a car that I bring to the track, because there are some things that you can do that only cost you time.
2. What did I do this year that was detrimental to the series? This includes rules infractions, arguing moot points, showing up at the track with a poor attitude, and showing up at the track with a dirty car.
3. What can I do to improve my racing operation for next year?
4. What can I do to improve my racing series for next year?
5. Did I beat up on the Class Director? Was it really necessary?

These are things that I deal with every day for NASA Texas and the classes that show up to race with us.

I am now off of my soap box, but remember I still have it in my hand and I am not afraid to use it.

[dirwin]

Very well said.

Dave

[mitchntx]

Much of the circumvention of the "Chain of Command" has been linked to a few phone calls and a chance meeting that resulted in no direct influences to decisions made by NASA Texas. There were personal issues and agendas linked to these conversations and those were kindly put to the side. One of these people hid behind a title and one didn't care. I have heard the term "witch hunt" used and unfortunately this concept was introduced by a Class Director. Just because a Director, Tech Inspector, or Official targets an individual for an infraction there should not be any personal malice involved in any decision. Granted, procedures have not always been followed, and that leads to speculation. I can tell you right now that NASA puts its' confidence in me to make the right decisions for this Region, and when I have enough information to make a decision I do it. You think that a Class Director is caught in the middle? I consult with John Lindsey, Shannon and Jay, Adrian, Class Directors, and racers before I rule, and I hear plenty of personal opinions, but I disregard that and make the best decision for NASA. You want consistency from NASA Texas, but, each of you seems to complain when we try to establish that. Has NASA Texas made some mistakes? YES. Have Class Directors made mistakes? YES. Have racers made mistakes? YES. But, rest assured I am going to be in every ones business starting now. This group is the neediest of all classes I deal with. Most other classes look at this group as its’ own entity, not because of the great racing, awesome cars, and camaraderie. They look at all of the on course contact, bickering, and complaining. This is embarrassing for a series that should be the crown jewel of NASA Texas. I have been Mr. Nice Guy for 2 1/2 years, except for 1 day, and now I have to stop. Each and every one of you has a significant investment in your series and you each need to look at a few things.
1. What is my contribution to the series? Beyond having a car that I bring to the track, because there are some things that you can do that only cost you time.
2. What did I do this year that was detrimental to the series? This includes rules infractions, arguing moot points, showing up at the track with a poor attitude, and showing up at the track with a dirty car.
3. What can I do to improve my racing operation for next year?
4. What can I do to improve my racing series for next year?
5. Did I beat up on the Class Director? Was it really necessary?

These are things that I deal with every day for NASA Texas and the classes that show up to race with us.

I am now off of my soap box, but remember I still have it in my hand and I am not afraid to use it.

Guilty as charged. Clifton, thanks for the perspective and the grounding.

I've got a lot of things I need to work out.

[AI#97]

Much of the circumvention of the "Chain of Command" .........I am now off of my soap box, but remember I still have it in my hand and I am not afraid to use it.

Clifton, yes, I have been overly critical, negative, sarcastic and my expectations of the series were set too high. I am working to change that and I am offering to do more for the series where I can.

Meanwhile, get the trophies ready for Houston. It would be really cool not to have to wait till february to get mine!! :wink:

[Waco Racer]

Meanwhile, get the trophies ready for Houston. It would be really cool not to have to wait till february to get mine!! :wink:

Would you like me to wear a bikini when you are presented with you medals? Fat chance you sick pervert! :evil:

You need to ask Bekah about the medals.

[AI#97]

Meanwhile, get the trophies ready for Houston. It would be really cool not to have to wait till february to get mine!! :wink:

Would you like me to wear a bikini when you are presented with you medals? Fat chance you sick pervert! :evil:

You need to ask Bekah about the medals.

Well, I ain't talking about medals, however if Bekah decides to present them with a smile, I am all good with that! :wink: I am referring to the fact our AI/CMC champs, runners up, rookies of year and hard luck awards didn't get their respective trophies till the February event the following year. It would just be a lot more cool to have that stuff presented sooner....that's all.

And I take the sick pervert comment as a compliment!!! :P

[Waco Racer]

I am referring to the fact our AI/CMC champs, runners up, rookies of year and hard luck awards didn't get their respective trophies till the February event the following year. It would just be a lot more cool to have that stuff presented sooner....that's all.

I thought those awards were going to be presented at the banquet. This would be a good time to consult with you Class Director.

[oz98cobra]

Again it seems there has been a lot of confusion when it comes to what these regional directors roles are all about? Also, any talk about not having any is rubbish - our class rules state that we must!

From the CMC rules:


Regional Coordinators ... will manage CMC activities in their region. Day to day CMC activities include determining event procedures as necessary, enforcing CMC rules, forming Incident Review Boards, and determining infractions and driver penalties following the procedures in section 3.3 below.

and:


... Coordinators ... shall make all efforts to be available to help answer questions and make new CMC competitors feel welcome to the series. The CMC Official’s goals are to keep CMC weekends and the series as a whole running smoothly, fulfilling the intent of the series.

This shouldn't be too hard - a mix of proactive and reactive activity. Note that the CCRs say nothing about class or regional director roles, therefore I see these roles more of a "consultant" type position rather than someone in the direct chain of command - in other words, they are there to assist the regional officials and help lighten the workload on matters pertaining to our class, but they are not 'decision makers' like the Race Director is for example. By the same token, they should always be consulted by - and repected by - officials on matters pertaining to our class or on issues with drivers in our class, and conversely, they should always be consulted by - and respeced by - the drivers in our class. Am I wrong in this interpretation?

By and large, from what I have seen, this was generally the case in the past and everything worked like it is supposed to, apart from a few instances where the system broke down because some racers and/or officials went outside the lines, culminating with the "final straw" preciptated at Hallett. So if we can all agree to play by the rules in future, how do we still have a problem?

BTW, I don't see anything in the rules about regional directors/coordinators having to write race write-ups - something which caused a lot of bashing of the directors in the past. I suggest that in future, this task should NOT be automatically tied to those positions, but allocated to someone who has the time and ability and would enjoy doing it.

[oz98cobra]

... This group is the neediest of all classes I deal with. Most other classes look at this group as its’ own entity, not because of the great racing, awesome cars, and camaraderie. They look at all of the on course contact, bickering, and complaining. This is embarrassing for a series that should be the crown jewel of NASA Texas...

Clifton, we may well be the "neediest" group from your point of view (although that is not the fault of the individual racers, and we are after all the largest group by far now that the miata bubble burst), but I must disagree with your next statement! Other groups don't see our "bickering and complaining", and apart from a relatively short period of time where there was definately too much contact going on, which IMO was actually an inevitable period with the way the series grew, there has in fact been very little contact for most of this year.

I know personally, and talk racing often, with several racers from other classes who regularly take part in NASA TX events, and I can tell you that is definately NOT the image that the majority of other classes have of our group.

In fact, following the oustanding performance of our guys at the nationals, I have heard nothing but respect and praise from those very same "other classes" that you referring to! Specifically, I have heard praise from Spec Miata drivers, one of the Vee racers, the Formula Mazda crew at MSR Cresson, and a GPC racer.

Furthermore, our reputation as a group outside of NASA circles, with people such as local racing businesses, is also one of providing exciting, quality and clean grass roots racing - as good as anywhere else in the nation!

So please, don't you dare sit there and accuse this group of being an embarrassment to NASA TX instead of the Jewel in it's crown! Sure, some of us might carry on like a bunch of teenage school girls on this board - OUR board I might add - but an embarrassment we certainly are NOT!

If anything, it should be the other way around - there are a few things NASA TX should be embarrassed about!

[oz98cobra]

And seeing this is a "general bitch fest" and Clifton's remark has got me all steamed up - that is a perfect example of why NASA officials should NOT have access to our private discussion area!

Sorry Clifton, I know you mean well, but the fact is that we should have a forum to bitch, piss and moan all we damn well please about anything that we choose, including issues that pertain to NASA TX!

I know you are on the Spec Miata forums, and they have a "drivers only" section open only to verified owners or drivers of spec miatas, so you are unlikely to have access to that area - but don't think for a minute for that there ain't plenty of bitching and bickering going on in there amongst the wine and cheese racers!

You simply don't need to see it - and the relationship between this group with you and NASA TX in general would be far better for it! We NEED to be able to discuss issues as a group - be it as painfull, childish, nasty, embarrassing, serious or silly as it often gets - without you seeing the process in action, and if there is a need to take something to you or other NASA officials, then we can do that in a professional manner!

It's not a matter of having something to hide, or fostering an "us and them" attitude - it's about having the ability to thrash something out amongst ourselves without big brother listening in on the process. It's not going to hamper communications between this group and NASA TX - on the contrary, it can only help!

I'd like to see a "racers only" section that is only open to verified AI/CMC racers from our region. Please Mr Webmaster!

[jeffburch]

Here Here!
I keep hearing this disfuntional crap and it makes me wanna lose my Coors.
This forum WAS for us to bitch about ********** management of our beloved racing series and now it's just milk toast crap.

Hell, let the whole damn world in here.
And, I'll say it again........I MISS ADAM as my race director.
He built this series, almost single handedly and it IS the crown jewel!
How many here did he cottle prior to them getting into racing.
He held my hand and still does.

Don't like AG? FU!


jb

[Waco Racer]

Clifton, we may well be the "neediest" group from your point of view (although that is not the fault of the individual racers, and we are after all the largest group by far now that the miata bubble burst), but I must disagree with your next statement! Other groups don't see our "bickering and complaining", and apart from a relatively short period of time where there was definately too much contact going on, which IMO was actually an inevitable period with the way the series grew, there has in fact been very little contact for most of this year.

I know personally, and talk racing often, with several racers from other classes who regularly take part in NASA TX events, and I can tell you that is definately NOT the image that the majority of other classes have of our group.

In fact, following the oustanding performance of our guys at the nationals, I have heard nothing but respect and praise from those very same "other classes" that you referring to! Specifically, I have heard praise from Spec Miata drivers, one of the Vee racers, the Formula Mazda crew at MSR Cresson, and a GPC racer.

Furthermore, our reputation as a group outside of NASA circles, with people such as local racing businesses, is also one of providing exciting, quality and clean grass roots racing - as good as anywhere else in the nation!

So please, don't you dare sit there and accuse this group of being an embarrassment to NASA TX instead of the Jewel in it's crown! Sure, some of us might carry on like a bunch of teenage school girls on this board - OUR board I might add - but an embarrassment we certainly are NOT!

If anything, it should be the other way around - there are a few things NASA TX should be embarrassed about!

Daron,

Things have improved over the last year as far as on track stuff, but you need to remember, I talk to all of the racers. Many times I have had to put aside race talk with other drivers to handle AI/CMC issues. The typical response I get is "Oh, them again". NASA Texas events are like a small town, gossip travels fast. Believe me; I have done my fair share of putting down rumors about this group.

When it comes to spectators at a NASA event, no other group draws more fans to track side than this group of Hot Rods. They are definitely a crowd pleaser. I am very proud of the racing that I see on track. Hell, I would like to be a part of it. I am even a dues paying member. Don't believe me? Ask your teammate.

I never said that this group is an embarrassment for NASA Texas. Hell, I was the chief flag waver at the Nationals for AI/CMC, literally! There are some things that AI/CMC does to itself that should be considered embarrassing behavior. NASA Texas does it, but, they are taking major steps to avoid a repeat. I don't get that vibe from some participants in this group. By the way, being the Crown Jewel is something that is earned, not given. I believe that this group is there. It just needs a little polish.

[Waco Racer]

And seeing this is a "general bitch fest" and Clifton's remark has got me all steamed up - that is a perfect example of why NASA officials should NOT have access to our private discussion area!

Sorry Clifton, I know you mean well, but the fact is that we should have a forum to bitch, piss and moan all we damn well please about anything that we choose, including issues that pertain to NASA TX!

I know you are on the Spec Miata forums, and they have a "drivers only" section open only to verified owners or drivers of spec miatas, so you are unlikely to have access to that area - but don't think for a minute for that there ain't plenty of bitching and bickering going on in there amongst the wine and cheese racers!

You simply don't need to see it - and the relationship between this group with you and NASA TX in general would be far better for it! We NEED to be able to discuss issues as a group - be it as painfull, childish, nasty, embarrassing, serious or silly as it often gets - without you seeing the process in action, and if there is a need to take something to you or other NASA officials, then we can do that in a professional manner!

It's not a matter of having something to hide, or fostering an "us and them" attitude - it's about having the ability to thrash something out amongst ourselves without big brother listening in on the process. It's not going to hamper communications between this group and NASA TX - on the contrary, it can only help!

I'd like to see a "racers only" section that is only open to verified AI/CMC racers from our region. Please Mr Webmaster!

If y'all don't want me here the I'll leave. It's not the first place I've been kicked out of.

p.s. You really I don't know what they talk about in that Spec Miata forum?

[Waco Racer]

For the record, I didn't want AG to resign. I was as shocked as anyone.

[Mike Bell]

Hey Clifton, while we still got you in here:


This group is the neediest of all classes I deal with.

Cut us off then. I sure don't want get more access or burden anyone outside what should be normal. I'm sure you got better things to do.

The "shame on you" approach does little to diminish the points made here IMHO and definitely doesn't change my perspective. You think we have too much car contact, then handle it as Race Director with the rule book.

I'm pretty steamed at your approach but maybe you just got fed up and decided to vent.

[Todd Covini]

Holy Cow...this forum's been hoppin' since I left a few weeks ago!!!
I'm back now from Ohio and Alaska....and I've read most of the posts here regarding Directors, Asst. Directors, Trophy-Gate, nominations, poor Matt White, etc. etc.

Great posts regarding the Director's positions which were spot-on by David Irwin, Clifton, Daron, MW and many others! Reading all the posts really highlights to me how much in the dark you guys must feel. Clifton and I aim to fix that, and he's done a great job of staying abreast here online. My bad there for "hiding behind the title".

I'll try to give a more detailed (Dare I Say...) "State of the Union" soon. For now, I'll just say a few things...

1) We're thru dwelling on the past, beating dead horses, dancing with ghosts of Hallett, and general bitching, moaning, complaining and whining. For those that were at TWS for the W'n More powerpoint presentation, you saw my "Big Bang Theory" and account of the past 3 years. If you weren't there that nite, we missed you, but we're moving forward now and that presentation is gone.

2) Mid-Ohio was awesome on so many different levels.
a) Texas racers proved we were a force-to-be-reckoned-with in nearly every class...and on a few podiums!
b) Series and Race Directors from every region were able to formally and informally discuss things in the interest of having a consistent national effort for both AI & CMC. Personally, it was great to discuss a lot of current events and take away some great "best-practices" from such a large event.
c) The "grass is always greener" phrase proved itself once again when there were a few very similar sticking points in the areas of series direction, rules compliance and other areas. (i.e.- This isn't just a Texas issue....we alls got pimples!)
d) Adam & Shannon truly had a heart to heart and discussed any differences they may have had in person...not over the phone, not in email...in person for nearly an hour. We look forward to having Adam race with us in future events.

3) The original business model for establishing/growing Texas AI/CMC has not changed since Adam & I sat down and wrote it out 4 years ago. All the same constraints, objectives, goals and deliverables to make AI/CMC a success, in our opinion, still exist. What HAS changed are a) how that business model is perceived/received and b) who carries out those tasks.

4) As many of you know, Adam & I are not geniuses....(or would the plural be "geniui"? ;-) We didn't come up with a 3 year plan to successfully get consistent 20 car fields with yours and NASA Texas's help on our own. We simply copied what was previously done thru trials and tribulations on the West Coast over the last 10 years (and more recently in other regions.)

5) For those that have been in Texas AI/CMC since day 1, you'll remember, at that time I was a "semi-retired" racer/series director having just moved from California with a new job and a new baby. The plan was for me to "show Adam the way" as the Series Director, however, given my career and family constraints, he would have to do most of the work, as the Asst. Series Director...and Adam did. My work and family constraints remain the same today (if not greater) than what they were in 2002...however, Adam is no longer in the role as Asst. Director.

6) As some pointed out, there is no use in finding a new Asst. Director if that position has no roles or responsibilities. If NASA TX is going to follow the same business model for AI/CMC themselves, or have a different model and carry it out with NASA TX core staff, then there really is no need for ANY series directors, at all.

7) From multiple conversations with Jay & Shannon, they have reiterated that they want me to stay on in the AI/CMC Director role. I would greatly like to continue in that role as we originally laid it out years ago from a big picture perspective. The last thing anyone wants is to "compete" for series directorship. There is no need for 2 sets of trophies, 2 sets of awards banquets or duplicate anything.

8) I feel as though we've been flexible to adjust to both NASA TX and the racer's wishes/concerns in many areas as we've grown and matured as a series. Sure, I'm stubborn and resist change whenever possible, but IMO, looking back today, the original formula for success has changed quite a bit. Some for very valid reasons and some for not.

9) IMO, the best folks to run the series are the ones who are in it. Even tempered, moderate folks who are passionate about the series. With that, tech will be more efficient, writeups will be more thorough, promotions will be more credible. Any assistance in these an other areas is always appreciated. (The old "ask not what your series has done for you....ask what you can do for your series!")

10) In a nutshell, I've generally promoted a self-managed racing series. I think to some this is perceived as creating a "click" or an "us & them" scenario, but that is clearly not the intention. In most instances, NASA Regions LOVE to delegate as much as possible. The more that is delegated to series directors, the less work for them and the less they have to worry about. Years ago, we coordinated everything from marketing, to promotions, to rules rewrites, to tech inspections, to writeups, to awards banquets, to trophy selections and the list goes on and on to with the help of many of you to get us to where we are today. Many times this has created conflict in one way or another within the group or with NASA. In order to resolve conflict, we've been heading toward a model where NASA TX (i.e.- neutral governing body) takes the role of series direction and all other aspects of it. Nothing wrong with that...just a different management style.

10) So...we are at a crossroads of sorts. The road ahead is only a dead-end if we fail to successfully negotiate the turn. Before we start to nominate new Directors, and find a source/semblance of leadership for the group let me continue to work with NASA with what we already have to further establish/define the roles and responsibilities they would like for their region and also satisfy the needs of the National Series Directors.

If the asst. director is going to primarily assist with tech.....we'll need someone who is proficient with the rules and can rule with the velvet hammer. If the asst. director is going to primarily assist with writeups...we'll need someone with writing skills, time and patience. You get the picture...it's not a "one size fits all". (FWIW...I think GL, MW, DL, DD, CL, JB, KM and many of the others pitched out there would make great directors...but first we need to know what skills are needed before appointing anyone.)

In closing, please recognize that just because all is quiet from the leadership bench doesn't mean the proverbial series sky is falling and nothing is going on. We'll get there...we're still growing....CMC2 is here....new racers in AI & CMC will be at MSRH....the 2006 Series Shirts are in their final proofing stage....racers will come and racers will go....but the series are managed for sustainability IN EVERYONE'S INTEREST!!!

Todd Covini

[mitchntx]

How many here did he cottle prior to them getting into racing.
He held my hand and still does.



I can honestly say that Adam and I have NEVER held hands.

[macstang]

wow, look what time Todd posted that. :shock:


Dedication

[TEXAST1]

For what it is worth, I consider myself a family member rather than a director when dealing with our group.

I feel this way because most of you came through the race craft class with me and Patterson. :D

Believe it or not we used to race together before they kicked the Corvettes out of AI. :P

[oz98cobra]

If y'all don't want me here the I'll leave. It's not the first place I've been kicked out of.

p.s. You really I don't know what they talk about in that Spec Miata forum?

It's not that we don't want you to participate in our forum - or any NASA TX folks - on the contrary - but we must have a section on that forum that is closed to all but the racers themselves.

This is not some weird request that we are making that is to promote division between NASA TX and the AI/CMC Texas group - it is the norm - it's human nature - it's how the world works - and certainly how every other race group in the world works, regardless of their sanctioning body! Fact is that although AI/CMC is indeed part of the NASA TX family, we are also an entity in our own right, and it's not too much to ask that we should be able to have private discussions out of earshot of our governing body!