Stoptech washer issue

[mach1]

I spent some time yesterday with the VP of Sales for Stoptech and he is going to take care of us that had issues with our mounting hardware, please PM me if you had issues and I will get him a list so he can send out replacement hardware. He told me they revised the washer and it should fix the issue.

[ShadowBolt]

I spent some time yesterday with the VP of Sales for Stoptech and he is going to take care of us that had issues with our mounting hardware, please PM me if you had issues and I will get him a list so he can send out replacement hardware. He told me they revised the washer and it should fix the issue.


This is great news but the bad hardware cause my rotor ring to slot way more than it should have. I was one that had to spend money on new hardware and a new ring. I only replaced one but I need to look at the other one hard prior to TWS.


Jerry

[michaelmosty]

I agree w/ Jerry, the hardware fix is nice but the trashed rotor rings are the bigger problem.

[mach1]

If we can build a big enough case I will see what I can do and maybe try to get new rings, do we think the wallerin is a result of poor hardware at this point?

[ShadowBolt]

If we can build a big enough case I will see what I can do and maybe try to get new rings, do we think the wallerin is a result of poor hardware at this point?

No doubt. Stoptech said they would not admit the hardware caused the rotor wear issue but they sold me a replacement ring for about half price. That was good of them but obviously they new it was their fault. I purchased the Stoptech kit just because I saw others not having to carry extra rotors to every event. If the hardware did not cause the rotor wear those damn rings may last ten seasons! I have three seasons on the one rotor that I have not had to replace. What I don't know is why one side wore out and the other did not.

JJ

[mach1]

No doubt. Stoptech said they would not admit the hardware caused the rotor wear issue but they sold me a replacement ring for about half price. That was good of them but obviously they new it was their fault. I purchased the Stoptech kit just because I saw others not having to carry extra rotors to every event. If the hardware did not cause the rotor wear those damn rings may last ten seasons! I have three seasons on the one rotor that I have not had to replace. What I don't know is why one side wore out and the other did not.

JJ

Better corner balance that thing!

[marshall_mosty]

I've been running their rings for 8 years now and could use some revised hardware.

[michaelmosty]

Marshall, I'd be curious to see how your rings are holding up with wallering out. Didn't you change a ring out a year or two ago that had cracked?
I still have my first set that I ran for 2 1/2 years as my spare set now, and you can definitely see the holes are worn funny.

I wonder if the CMC "plain faced" rings are made of the same material as StopTechs standard slotted ones.

[marshall_mosty]

I did have a ring crack at NOLA back in 2013 (6 seasons on the rings, probably 20 weekends).
I didn't pay attention to the attachment slots.

When the car comes off the trailer, I will definitely pull that apart to see how they are wearing.

Just from a design/production aspect, I don't see StopTech specifying a different base material of iron casting for the ring. The slots are just part of the "post-op machining" step before they are considered finished units.

[RichardP]

Dan had a failure on one of his Stoptech rings. I don't have any solid facts, but it looks to me like the fabrication of the rings has been changed relatively recently. So many people have reported many years of usage without problems. Yet, all of the failures I have seen have been on rings that were purchased not that long ago. The first set of rings we had on Orange looked great until we killed one with a failed hub flange. The replacement rings showed signs of small radial heat cracks after their first event. These cracks aren't a big deal and can be found on most rotors that have seen hard use. We didn't see the cracks on the old rotor rings until we accidentally ran out of pad material at NOLA and overheated the rotors by running on the backing plates.

Hopefully the new washer setup will help out with the issue. Seems to me it could just be trying to mask the real problem.


Richard P.

[BryanL]

So whats the skinny on Stoptech helping out any? I took my brakes apart over the brake and had our CMC director come over to take a look. The holes/slots on the rings are pretty wallered? out so they have a lot of movement on the hat. The washers were definitely not flat and at some point the washers and bolt would have pulled through like has happened to Jerry. So I definitely need to get some new rings. Where do you guys get new rings? It doesn't look like Stoptech sells direct?
Was the VP of sales any help?

[marshall_mosty]

I bought my rings thru John George (Chicane23.com).
Michael checked his this past weekend and had the same issue, but is going to run at least another few weekends with what he has before putting on a spare set.

[mach1]

I have not received any PM's on this, he offered to replace the hardware but not the ring, we can try to build a case on the rings and see what they have to say, perhaps the faulty hardware caused issues with the rings?

[ShadowBolt]

They gave me a deal on the one ring that I had this happen on. They would not admit anything was wrong with the ring was Stoptech fault but wanted to help me. I assumed they were helping because they knew this should not have happened. My other ring (last I looked at Hallett) was still perfect. The old ring I think is three years old this May. I think I got the replacement for about half price. Everyone that saw the pics at Stoptech said they had never seen this problem. If these rings did not elongate the pin holes I think they would last three or four seasons on a CMC car.

I was going to laser cut some new thicker Inconel washers but I was worried about the elongated holes so I did not even try it.

John George can get us the new rings but the question is do we have to expect this in the future? If so this does not make the Stoptech brakes near as good a deal as I felt they were in the beginning. I think Michael is on his second set of rings. How long did it take for this to happen on the new set of rings and do the old ones that were kept for spares show this issue at all?


JJ

[michaelmosty]

I have run the Stoptechs for just over 5 years. I got a new set of rings after 2 1/2 years just as a preventative issue and to keep the old set as spares. Both my spares and my current set (2 1/2 years on them as well) have the holes elongated out. They are not near as bad as what Leinarts look like but they are still noticeable.
My guess is the ring is just a wear item.

It seems strange that Stoptech says they have never seen this before. Maybe everyone they sell to changes out rings far more frequently than we do as they are most likely putting a lot more stress on their brakes than we are.

That being said, it they are helping give a discount on new rings, I'll take them up on it.

[ShadowBolt]

I have run the Stoptechs for just over 5 years. I got a new set of rings after 2 1/2 years just as a preventative issue and to keep the old set as spares. Both my spares and my current set (2 1/2 years on them as well) have the holes elongated out. They are not near as bad as what Leinarts look like but they are still noticeable.
My guess is the ring is just a wear item.

It seems strange that Stoptech says they have never seen this before. Maybe everyone they sell to changes out rings far more frequently than we do as they are most likely putting a lot more stress on their brakes than we are.

That being said, it they are helping give a discount on new rings, I'll take them up on it.,

I don't know if they will help again but I will search my email and see if I can find the guy I worked with at Stoptech and see if we can get some help.

JJ

[ShadowBolt]

I talked with Pat at Stoptech and Brian from Maximum Motorsports (this was back when this happened to me last summer). This is not a new email.

pmccleish@centricparts.com

They were convinced the hubs were worn out and this caused the elongation. I'm calling BS. Both hubs were fine. Here is the info I received from Pat.

We believe the issues stems from a deflecting hub/wheel bearing assembly putting the drive pins in tension instead of shear. The wheel spacers accelerate this type of problem. Please make sure to check the hat for any deformation in the drive pin holes as well. If the wheel bearing deflection issue isn’t addressed, this is likely to happen again. The washers are only there to prevent the pin from falling out…the assembly is designed to the load the drive pins in shear, not tension…there should be no side loading of the rotor.

The rotor ring cannot be re-used. The new rotor comes will come with a replacement drive pin kit. You can contact Maximum Motorsports for the replacement components


H
Since my hubs were tight what caused this? Richard, Marshall?

JJ

[ShadowBolt]

Oh and the aluminum hat that is on the other side of the rotor ring connected by the pins still look like new. So the cast rotor holes elongate but the aluminum hat does not?????


I need to know how many rings we have like this and I will contact Pat for all of us. Unless someone else has a better contact or more stroke with someone at Stoptech.

JJ

[blk96gt]

Can someone look at my rings at MSR-H and tell me what I'm supposed to be looking for?

[marshall_mosty]

Can someone look at my rings at MSR-H and tell me what I'm supposed to be looking for?
We will bring one of Michael's rings as a "show and tell"...

[BryanL]

I'll snap a pic this week but both of my rings are this way. Jerry-both of my rings are wallered out. I don't have much time to wait on Stoptech as I need rings for the first event in two weeks.

[Rob Liebbe]

I'll snap a pic this week but both of my rings are this way. Jerry-both of my rings are wallered out. I don't have much time to wait on Stoptech as I need rings for the first event in two weeks.

Are the Stoptech rotor assemblies the same dimensions as "stock 13in" replacement rotors. My question is; if Stoptech doesn't get new rotors in time, can an off the shelf rotor do in a pinch by spacing the caliper relative to the spindle if necessary?

[BryanL]

I have no idea Rob. It sounds like I can find slotted rotors. But I'm more concerned about this happening again. I have reached out to RacingBrake but didn't get a reply. I may just run the factory caliper setup instead.

I did call Stoptech today and talked to Pat who acted like he had never heard of anything like this happening. He asked me to email him which I did along with pictures. Will let you know what he comes back with.

I tend to think there is an issue with be build process on the blank rotors since the only issues we have seen like this have been from the blanks. Otherwise wouldn't we see this problem across the world with Stoptechs. Do any of the AI guys have an issue with the rings wallering out?

[Suck fumes]

Ive had mine on there since 2013 and just checked them again this week. No issues. Maybe yall got a bad chinese washer batch?

[ShadowBolt]

Ive had mine on there since 2013 and just checked them again this week. No issues. Maybe yall got a bad chinese washer batch?
There is no way the washer caused the issue.

[dtanker65]

There is no way the washer caused the issue.

Hub deflection makes the most sense to me, do the pads have a tapered wear pattern? I would take Aaron's brake durability with a grain of salt, I rarely see him use the brakes :)

[Suck fumes]

Hub deflection makes a lot more sense. I'm paranoid though and check my hubs all the time. Surprisingly they last a while on a heavy mustang.

[Pranav]

Y'all got me thinking again.

Presently I run these calipers:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/wilwood-disc-brakes/part-type/brake-calipers/caliper-series/fsli/rotor-thickness-in/1-100-in/piston-diameter-in/1-750-in?N=400196%2B4294947774%2B4294788082%2B4294901599 %2B4294942589&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending

I run custom brackets made by a buddy in college station to adapt them to the 4th gen f-body spindle.

They accept off-the-shelf 13x1.1 J55 rotors from the C4 'vette:
http://www.stockwiseauto.com/images/products/CEN/12062046.jpg

In addition I have the super awesome blainefab 3" brake ducts that seal off the inside of the rotors:
http://www.blainefab.com/ductplenums.html

With this setup I make a set of rotors last almost an entire season before one of them will crack at a whopping cost of around $100/pair.

So I'm only around $700 in for my brakes excluding pads so far.

Now that the rules allow slotted rotors, and if I so feel inclined in the future, I can now jump to the two-piece bandwagon like everyone else for an additional $550-600, and drop 4 pounds of weight off each front wheel:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-8313/overview/

Maybe if I'm a good boy this year I'll reward myself with new shocks and these rotors.

[ShadowBolt]

Hub deflection does make since but my pads are wearing evenly and I could not feel any deflection at all. I changed hubs even though the one's on the car felt great.


JJ

[BryanL]

updating thread later

[BryanL]

....nevermind.

[marshall_mosty]

The off-axis torque reaction would be countered by the thermal expansion slot direction, which was machined radially to the rotor hat center...