NASA Texas (Questions, Concerns, Improvements)

[marshall_mosty]

Guys,
I just hung up the phone with Will. He and I had a very productive discussion that focused on both communication as well as the refund policy. Will wanted to ensure that everyone understands that he is a racer first and he grew up with NASA and has personally seen the “hi’s” and “low’s” of what amateur racing can bring. Will is really giving this NASA region his 100%. He has stepped down from the NASA National’s role as Event Director to allow him to put 110% effort into the continued growth of the TX region. He’s trying to strike a balance that provides not only an extremely satisfying weekend for the racers and guests, but also a viable business model that can provide sustained and continued growth and evolution for years to come. We discussed the pro’s/con’s of both previous “owners/operators” of the region and I gave him our feelings on both (good and bad).

He indicated to me that he has his office phone automatically forwarding calls to his cell phone. All emails and/or voicemail will be returned the following business day (during normal 8-5 business hours or approx. 24 hours).

Regarding the race credits, I’m working with Will on setting up a new system that will be a “win/win” for both NASA and the racers. Information on this will be released as we get our ideas firmed up, but the goal is to have something in place for the start of the 2016 season. We will run beta testing on the new system over the off-season to ensure it’s up to speed prior to registration opening for the first event next year.

[mach1]

That is great news Marshall, thank you very much for getting the ball rolling on this.

[GlennCMC70]

I think we need to drop down to 6 weekends dedicated to NASA Series sprint races.
Add a 7th for enduros. 2 8hr enduros with a overall winner each day and a single high average winner for the 2 days.

[Fbody383]

I think we need to drop down to 6 weekends dedicated to NASA Series sprint races.
Add a 7th for enduros. 2 8hr enduros with a overall winner each day and a single high average winner for the 2 days. That's something that could be interesting.

Will has said he should show up for dinner Saturday night - have one beer before we talk to him and see what we can do to help get those things that we want as a group. Everything seems to be less volatile in person and we're (most of you guys are) adults, we can have difficult conversations.

[BryanL]

Guys,
I just hung up the phone with Will. He and I had a very productive discussion that focused on both communication as well as the refund policy. Will wanted to ensure that everyone understands that he is a racer first and he grew up with NASA and has personally seen the “hi’s” and “low’s” of what amateur racing can bring. Will is really giving this NASA region his 100%. He has stepped down from the NASA National’s role as Event Director to allow him to put 110% effort into the continued growth of the TX region. He’s trying to strike a balance that provides not only an extremely satisfying weekend for the racers and guests, but also a viable business model that can provide sustained and continued growth and evolution for years to come. We discussed the pro’s/con’s of both previous “owners/operators” of the region and I gave him our feelings on both (good and bad).

He indicated to me that he has his office phone automatically forwarding calls to his cell phone. All emails and/or voicemail will be returned the following business day (during normal 8-5 business hours or approx. 24 hours).

Regarding the race credits, I’m working with Will on setting up a new system that will be a “win/win” for both NASA and the racers. Information on this will be released as we get our ideas firmed up, but the goal is to have something in place for the start of the 2016 season. We will run beta testing on the new system over the off-season to ensure it’s up to speed prior to registration opening for the first event next year.

Thanks for trying Marshall. So sad to see this happening to our region.

[Fbody383]

Thanks for trying Marshall. So sad to see this happening to our region. Marshall, what's the latest? What is going to make 2016 the best NASA/CMC/AI/SI year yet?

[mach1]

Marshall, what's the latest? What is going to make 2016 the best NASA/CMC/AI/SI year yet?

Adam Ginsberg is coming in to co-head NASATX???

[Alien]

Guys,
Regarding the race credits, I’m working with Will on setting up a new system that will be a “win/win” for both NASA and the racers. Information on this will be released as we get our ideas firmed up, but the goal is to have something in place for the start of the 2016 season. We will run beta testing on the new system over the off-season to ensure it’s up to speed prior to registration opening for the first event next year.
FWIW, in the comments section during registration for every event, I add that it would be nice to go back to a refund policy where if you broke on Saturday, you received a one day credit for Sunday. Figure if enough people mention it, it might sway (doubtful) some minds.

[ShadowBolt]

FWIW, in the comments section during registration for every event, I add that it would be nice to go back to a refund policy where if you broke on Saturday, you received a one day credit for Sunday. Figure if enough people mention it, it might sway (doubtful) some minds.

Don't hold your breath.


JJ

[marshall_mosty]

I've raised the concerns... again.
I had a phone discussion with Will 7-Jan and then again with him at MSR-H about this... I'm still hoping that we can get something out there for everyone.

[ShadowBolt]

I'm over this. I talked to Will and he had a point. We come out with $10,000.00 race cars and expect him to cover the next day when we break one of these POS's. I do understand his point. Dave gave this to us and now Will takes it away. He has that right.....I assume there is no NASA National view. Th Isn't? It should be the same everywhere.

JJ

[mach1]

I'm over this. I talked to Will and he had a point. We come out with $10,000.00 race cars and expect him to cover the next day when we break one of these POS's. I do understand his point. Dave gave this to us and now Will takes it away. He has that right.....I assume there is no NASA National view. Th Isn't? It should be the same everywhere.

JJ

I don't feel like he is covering it if we don't ever use it, a single day credit would be a good gesture for his loyal customers assuming we never used any track time on that day. I broke 2 mins into Sat warmup at Houston, 2 minutes less track time I would have a full weekend credit for the next event vs losing the whole weekend, seems a little out of balance.

[ShadowBolt]

I don't feel like he is covering it if we don't ever use it, a single day credit would be a good gesture for his loyal customers assuming we never used any track time on that day. I broke 2 mins into Sat warmup at Houston, 2 minutes less track time I would have a full weekend credit for the next event vs losing the whole weekend, seems a little out of balance.

Before Dave I never got credit when my car broke. Like I said I wish NASA National would rule on this one way or the other. Why should it be different from one region to another unless the Guys like Will and Dave OWN their regions. If they own it they can do whatever the hell they want to and we can vote with our dollars.

JJ

[BryanL]

Before Dave I never got credit when my car broke. Like I said I wish NASA National would rule on this one way or the other. Why should it be different from one region to another unless the Guys like Will and Dave OWN their regions. If they own it they can do whatever the hell they want to and we can vote with our dollars.

JJ

So if you bought a super bowl ticket but got sick during pregame and had to leave do they offer you a refund? Are there any other motorsport events that provide a refund if you break? Anyone know what SCCA, other HPDE groups do? I didn't like the change as I was accustomed to what Dave had done. Nobody likes getting their food stamps reduced. I would love to be able to get a one day credit as well but that isn't the case anymore.
It's likely that the insurance costs are pre-determined based upon the registration. I'm certain the insurance company isn't going to provide a credit to them for the next day if someone breaks. Likewise there isn't going to be a reduction in manpower for Sunday because people broke.
We just have to make sure our hoopties are mechanically sound enough to make it through a weekend. Trying to get a $150 refund really isn't much when you look at the whole budget. Same reasons why you can't get a warranty for really anything on our cars unless it's a sorry replacement part from the box stores. Where are the 3 race year warranty's on engines and transmissions.

[michaelmosty]

I completely agree with Bryan on this one. I think the refund is something that Dave did in going Well Above anything we expected.

[BryanL]

I completely agree with Bryan on this one. We should add weight to the Fords.

Glad to see you are seeing the light Director.

[ShadowBolt]

We have several guys that spend a grand on a new set of tires for every event. Then we ask for $150.00 back because we broke. Like BL I did not like it at first but after talking to Will I understand where he is coming from. I used to not like to race in the rain. What if half of us left Sat. night because it was supposed to rain on Sunday. How does Will lower his cost for Sumday? I raised as much hell as anyone on this but I can see it from Will's side now.

JJ

[Suck fumes]

In scca if you don't set a tire on the track on one day then they will refund you for that day.

[Fbody383]

In scca if you don't set a tire on the track on one day then they will refund you for that day. I'm not even really expecting a refund... just a credit for another day.

[mach1]

I'm not even really expecting a refund... just a credit for another day.

ditto

[ShadowBolt]

In scca if you don't set a tire on the track on one day then they will refund you for that day.

This changes my mind. Still I stand behind a business owner being able to do whatever he wants to. SCCA does not give us near as much track time as NASA does (assuming I have been told correctly). I'm really surprised SCCA will do the refund like this.


JJ

[mach1]

I'm really surprised SCCA will do the refund like this.


JJ
I'm not, it's good business.
On the other hand, with the negative things that I have heard about the SCCA it does surprise me coming from them.
Like you said Jerry, we can vote with our dollars. Will has the product, we want it, he is the boss until we are not willing to pay for it.
It feels greedy to me, 95% of the time when I ask a manager or owner for something that is reasonable, we are able to work something out, a credit for a day that you never touch the track is absolutely reasonable to me. If people are abusing this system then I completely understand where Will is coming from, but as long time customers, I didn't expect for us to be treated this way.

[Rob Liebbe]

A little off of the direction this thread has taken, but for an improvement - a more affordable/durable/longer usable tire please. Bring back the original RA1 tire we loved so much. Toyo can call it anything they want, but bring it back. All the "progress" from Toyo has been away from a quality tire for the weekend warriors like us. Quite honestly (among many other factors in life) this is one of the reasons keeping me away from CMC/NASA. I'm nearing the point where I will buy a set of Nitto NT01's and have fun with the car somewhere else.

[ShadowBolt]

A little off of the direction this thread has taken, but for an improvement - a more affordable/durable/longer usable tire please. Bring back the original RA1 tire we loved so much. Toyo can call it anything they want, but bring it back. All the "progress" from Toyo has been away from a quality tire for the weekend warriors like us. Quite honestly (among many other factors in life) this is one of the reasons keeping me away from CMC/NASA. I'm nearing the point where I will buy a set of Nitto NT01's and have fun with the car somewhere else.

I agree with you Rob. I'm not going to stop racing because of the tires but having to spend a grand a weekend on tires does not belong in CMC.

JJ

[Supercharged111]

I ran last season with 2014's leftover RA1s and 1 set of RRs.

[BryanL]

I ran last season with 2014's leftover RA1s and 1 set of RRs.

No problem with that but in Texas if you want to be on the podium they all pretty much show up with new tires every weekend. I too want a tire that lasts all season like they used too. So either the group decides to go to a different tire and give up the toyo money or somehow a negotiation is made with Toyo to run some form of their street tire that will last longer. It isn't about Toyo trying to make money by selling RR's to CMC racers either-it's not even a drop in the bucket for them to be worried about financially.

[mach1]

So we make a Texas rule to only run RA1's? Contingency still works, and we are on a longer lasting tire, unless of course the newer RA1's are junk.

I ran my 255 RA1 Rain's at Hallett 2015 for race 3, in the dry, prob 5/32 avg tread depth. I finished the race 3rd (started 10th) and was 3rd fastest in lap speed.

[ShadowBolt]

We think (and I stress think) the older RA1's lasted longer. Not just CMC'rs but several other groups said they saw the same thing. The newer RA1 did not last as long and did fall off after some number of heat cycles. The old RA's were the same one heat cycle from cording as it was the first few cycles.

The issue for me is I picked CMC because I did not want to have to spend a fortune on a car or tires. I saw CMC as a working mans series. It is NOT a normal working mans series. Most of my life I wanted to race and until I was 45 years old there was no way I could have taken 7-10 grand a year out of my family expenses for racing. CMC is still maybe the least expensive way to go road racing but I wonder how many more would race with us if cost were lower? For me tires are the largest expense. Of course if you finish at the front enough the tire bill is almost a non-issue.

JJ

[Rob Liebbe]

CMC should be "entry" level but it is still racing and it does cost money. It just doesn't need to cost an unnecessary amount. Seems like going to a non-contingency tire, of a durable and consistent quality, would level the playing field to some degree. Or at least eliminate the advantages the front runners seem to enjoy with the current tire.

[Supercharged111]

Really depends on the surface too. 3 of my 5 races were on a Hallett-like surface that allows you to run old junk and still be fast. I saved my RRs for the other surfaces the best I could.

[mach1]

Another fun fact, I set pole last year, MSRH Jan, by 1/2 a second, on 25 heat cycle RR's, 1:45.2, they were cording after the last race that day, Sunday.

[ShadowBolt]

Another fun fact, I set pole last year, MSRH Jan, by 1/2 a second, on 25 heat cycle RR's, 1:45.2, they were cording after the last race that day, Sunday.

If I remember Michael set a track record at TWS with 18-22 H/C RR's then in other times you pick up a second and a half going from 10 H/C tires to new. I know the problem I never said I had the answer.


JJ

[mach1]

If I remember Michael set a track record at TWS with 18-22 H/C RR's then in other times you pick up a second and a half going from 10 H/C tires to new. I know the problem I never said I had the answer.


JJ

Yeah I remember that, the data is all over the place.

[marshall_mosty]

Michael set the AI track record in my car at MSR-H on a set of tires with at least 15 HC's on them. The rear tires are to a point where the two groves are scuffing away..

also, if you compare the lap times from the old RA1's, we are significantly faster, so that SHOULD equate to less tire life. Whether it's the tire that's grippier, or we have all grown a larger set of balls, who knows...

[Pranav]

I set the record at MSRH this year, 1:44.3 remember!?

[mach1]

I set the record at MSRH this year, 1:44.3 remember!?

But you were on stickers, that doesn't count! :)

[Pranav]

Nope! 12+ HC tires RRs, in the wet!

[michaelmosty]

No problem with that but in Texas if you want to be on the podium they all pretty much show up with new tires every weekend. I too want a tire that lasts all season like they used too. So either the group decides to go to a different tire and give up the toyo money or somehow a negotiation is made with Toyo to run some form of their street tire that will last longer. It isn't about Toyo trying to make money by selling RR's to CMC racers either-it's not even a drop in the bucket for them to be worried about financially.

I ran last season on two sets of RR's. First set for MSRH, MSRC, and TWS. Second set for Hallett, MSRH, and TWS.
I personally think the RR's last longer than the RA1's. (The most recent RA1's that is)

[ShadowBolt]

I ran last season on two sets of RR's. First set for MSRH, MSRC, and TWS. Second set for Hallett, MSRH, and TWS.
I personally think the RR's last longer than the RA1's. (The most recent RA1's that is)
Damn! I thought you were having the RR's fall off bad after eight to ten heat cycles.


JJ

[mach1]

Thanks Michael, I can't use bad tires as an excuse for my bad driving now :cool:

[blk96gt]

I think that TWS is probably the hardest on tires. I can cord a set in 2 weekends at TWS. The ones from MSR-H barely look used. I've also heard that NOLA is tough on tires as well.

[michaelmosty]

Damn! I thought you were having the RR's fall off bad after eight to ten heat cycles.


JJ

I think they feel pretty good for about the first 2 events (14 heat cycles). By the third event they are a bit of a challenge.

[Fbody383]

Thanks Michael, I can't use bad tires as an excuse for my bad driving now :cool: And yet I will. Just think, almost time for you guys to get back on track. Charge your cameras and take lots of video at Cresson.