TWS closing? MSRH increasing costs?? [Archive] - Texas American Iron & Camaro Mustang Challenge

Mike Bell

10-01-2006, 06:38 AM

I did a DE with the Lone Star Porsche Club out at TWS yesterday and had a blast but heard two rumors.

First - TWS has been sold and is scheduled to be demolished. Not sure on this one, fact? rumor? Sad to think that urban sprawl has claimed a great old track like TWS.

Second - PCA isn't going to be running at MSRH next year due to the track hiking the costs up too high. This was announced in the drivers meeting but the "why" was hearsay. I thought TWS was the track doing this, lol.

TWS was a blast in the CW direction!

jeffburch

10-01-2006, 07:33 AM

MB,
Interesting. Thanks.
Schedule next year will be interesting to see.
No HMRC. No TWS.
Oh NOooooo....NPR?????

How did the 18 car do?

jb

David Love AI27

10-01-2006, 10:25 AM

Mike, you should have told me and I would have joined you... I usually go to those events but hate being the only American built/high hp car in DE

Mike Bell

10-01-2006, 10:28 AM

JB,

Thanks for asking. Car with rebuilt motor made two 20 minute sessions without overheating - that's a big step in the right direction. Seat-o-pants meter says I'm still behind in the HP wars but no confirmation as I didn't have time to get to the dyno. Headed out of town for a week so I'll have to wait to get the official dyno numbers when I get back.

I see that TWS is on the SCCA SowDiv schedule for next year, one event in May so the demise of TWS may have been a false rumor. I sure hope so, I like that old place.

mitchntx

10-01-2006, 10:32 AM

Driver's Edge isn't going back to Houston either ... announced in a driver's meeting.

rick said he cancelled the December event there.

CMC17

10-01-2006, 10:51 AM

I was out at TWS to see if Mike needed any help or an extra hand while he was shaking down CMC18. Lemme tell you, he was cutting the fastest times around TWS in a CMC car that I have ever witnessed!! A Ford GT didn't have anything for him. A 610rwhp '03 Cobra couldn't catch him. I would also venture to say that at least 75% of the field pointed him by! Nope, I'm not making this up and was in awe at how non-rusty the pilot was!

I do hope they don't close TWS. It's a great track and of course it's very close to home. If we do get a chance to run on it again, lets run it CW!!!! Definitely a lot more fun!

...that is all.

Mike Bell

10-01-2006, 11:09 AM

Don't buy all that sugary Verner hype, the Toyo's made me look like superman compared to the really nice cars out there on their street rubber. Plus the fact that my ragged old Mustang sliding sideways in every corner prolly scared the guys in the shiny supercars. It was hard to remember that I couldn't pass in the corners - DE mode is difficult go go back to after racing you maniacs lol.

Sorry I didn't hook up with you David, it was a last minute decision once my car was ready. The PCA folks were extremely nice and accomodating, several American-made vehicles in attendance.

It's amazing how fast you get down into turn 15 in the CW direction, scared the bejeezus out of myself several times and still never nailed the entrance. Much to learn grasshopper.

AllZWay

10-02-2006, 07:59 AM

Any idea when next years schedule will be announced?

I heard rumours of 3 MSR-H , 1 Corpus date and no Hallett date

All those Houston and that Corpus would be killer pulls for me.

macstang

10-02-2006, 10:14 AM

lets talk about killer pulls........

Waco Racer

10-02-2006, 10:20 AM

michaelmosty

10-02-2006, 10:31 AM

Can the schedule be released?

AI#97

10-02-2006, 10:46 AM

I've seen the schedule and it is pretty cool. TWS is on it. I have heard to many rumors about TWS in the last 11 years it's not even funny. Canole wants to sell it, but at $5m he doesn't have many interested parties.

He is only asking $5M....? Is it a 100 year lease kind of thing or is that for the entire facility, lock stock and barrel?

I too would hate to see that track go away as it is my favorite.

I do have access to investors who can fund this kind of thing and quite frankly, if we could get TWS repaved and the paddock area fixed up with some new bleachers, you could really get some great Race series appeal there similar to Daytona, Sebring and other endurance events. The best part would be for College station to kick in some cash to fill the town up on those weekends. Barber is a great example for that!

AI#97

10-02-2006, 10:47 AM

I've seen the schedule and it is pretty cool. TWS is on it. I have heard to many rumors about TWS in the last 11 years it's not even funny. Canole wants to sell it, but at $5m he doesn't have many interested parties.

Bye the way Clifton, has anyone spoken to the folks at Eagle's Canyon yet? I mentioned it to Shannon a few weeks ago and she was looking into it.

Tex89

10-02-2006, 10:54 AM

Bye the way Clifton, has anyone spoken to the folks at Eagle's Canyon yet? I mentioned it to Shannon a few weeks ago and she was looking into it.

How about Racers Ranch too :?:

Waco Racer

10-02-2006, 10:56 AM

He is only asking $5M....? Is it a 100 year lease kind of thing or is that for the entire facility, lock stock and barrel?

I too would hate to see that track go away as it is my favorite.

I do have access to investors who can fund this kind of thing and quite frankly, if we could get TWS repaved and the paddock area fixed up with some new bleachers, you could really get some great Race series appeal there similar to Daytona, Sebring and other endurance events. The best part would be for College station to kick in some cash to fill the town up on those weekends. Barber is a great example for that!

When he put it up for auction $5m was the opening bid. The stands have severe underground eroding and to host a professional event you would need invest another $5m.

jeffburch

10-02-2006, 10:56 AM

TWS WAS repaved in the early nineties.
Shoulda saw it prior, OMG.

jb

Waco Racer

10-02-2006, 10:58 AM

Bye the way Clifton, has anyone spoken to the folks at Eagle's Canyon yet? I mentioned it to Shannon a few weeks ago and she was looking into it.

Shhh, there's other people that read this board. :wink:

AI#97

10-02-2006, 11:50 AM

When he put it up for auction $5m was the opening bid. The stands have severe underground eroding and to host a professional event you would need invest another $5m.

Well, given the current revenue stream that he has, and it's dwindling, anything over $1.5M is a waste of money. He should cash in his chips and get out. figure another Million to repave the 2.9 course, $750k for the pits, paddock and new facilities, then drop 2-3 Million on bleachers and you could go all in for about $5.5M. The cost of that kind of note would require a hell of an event each month and signed deals with ALMS and Grand Am for atleast 3 years....not impossible but just not likely.

The problem, and it's a big problem for Track owners is that there is a strong potential for 8 race tracks within a 6 hour drive of dallas within the next 2 years. Lots of options and a very limited following in Texas.

Oh well, just thinking out loud.

oz98cobra

10-02-2006, 07:01 PM

I've seen the schedule and it is pretty cool.

So is MSR Cresson on it - because a couple of weeks ago, the manager was asking what was up with NASA because they hadn't heard from them re track dates for 07?

Corpus? There's a track there?

And that rumour about 3 events at MSRH better not be true :( I like racing there, but unless they plan to do 9 rounds next year, 3 at MSRH is not exactly giving us a balanced mix of tracks?

And what about the new expanded section at the Grandsport Speedway at the old blimb base - I don't know much about it, but I believe it is on track for completion later this month, so hopefully it has been looked at?

TEXAST1

10-03-2006, 07:45 PM

Corpus has an old air base that I haven't raced on in 4-5 years. It is called Cabaniss Air field. Last time I was there it looked like a bomb had gone off in close vancinity. :roll:

I haven't gone back in years because of the sand blasting and glass breakage. It is also a hugh tow from DFW. 8-10+ hours

It maybe better now, I don't know.

I will personally be very angry if we aren't at Cresson. I am gonna call Jay-Bird. :evil:

Waco Racer

10-03-2006, 08:08 PM

AI#97

10-03-2006, 08:14 PM

jeffburch

10-03-2006, 08:18 PM

Nuts.

jb

GlennCMC70

10-03-2006, 08:34 PM

i can already tell you my drop event. June and backwards. have fun guys.

Mike Bell

10-03-2006, 08:45 PM

Wow, Eagles Canyon!

GL, whatsammata on the MSRH backwards - am I missing something obvious?

Also, I presume the gap between August and October is to allow for Nats again? I may try and make that one next year given all the fun reported by the TX group this year.

GlennCMC70

10-03-2006, 08:57 PM

no reason to run any single track 3 times on a 6 weekend schedule. i didnt like it in '05 w/ MSR-C and i didnt like it this year w/ MSR-H. NASA TX refused to run MSR-C backwards even when we begged them. i'll refuse to run the backwards event that also fills the the schedule 3 times. dropping Hallett was not good. no reason to run 3 MSR-H events and only 1 MSR-C event.
i was already thinking of taking most of next year off. now w/ only 2 local events, i'll be lucky to do enough events to qualify for Nats, much less run for points.
yep, i know, not very good reasons, but they are my reasons.
NASA TX really has me wondering what they are thinking. i predict that 2008 will be 4 MSR-H events w/ a TWS and Corpus event. Carnak predicts a NASA TX Southeast region.

jeffburch

10-03-2006, 09:08 PM

StinkyPoo!

How about, COMMA Houston Region Year 2.
1-skip
2-check
3-check
4-skip
5-check
Nats-check
6-skip

Better yet, just plain old COMMA. That sounds good.

Bok-Boooook B B B B B - B B B B B BOK-BoooooK
MMMmmmm, YES! Carnack.

I'd like to see 4-6 Nat'l type events throughout the year supporting other stuff. ALMS or CART or whatever. It's a good show.
I have region envy I guess. That's what it is.

jb

mitchntx

10-03-2006, 09:19 PM

Rough schedule:

First weekend in February @ MSR Houston
First weekend in March @ MSR Cresson
Last weekend in April @ Eagles Canyon
Last weekend in June @ MSR Houston running opposite direction
First weekend in August @ TWS
Last weekend in October @ MSR Houston

Wow ... this really sucks.

No Houston events for me. It's NPR on steroids. I hate that place.

March and April are out because of work schedule

College Station in August ... not bloody likely.

Guess I'll DE it to get my fix.

On the bright side ...

I get to drive the Roval at TMS in November and they pay me! WooHoo!

AI#97

10-03-2006, 09:44 PM

Wow! Sounds like the f-body crew has some sand in their shorts! Be thankful there is a race series here at all gang! I would suggest equal split between cresson and Houston and dropping the reverse houston event. Just think about our 4 race format with standing starts, inverted starts and the fact we wouldn't be fanned out yet going over the launch in reverse!!!

How about the 3.1 at cresson and then one at cresson in reverse? This would seem to be more of a balanced schedule for North and South texas....hell, go ahead and throw hallet in there in May!!! I'll bite.

Sorry gang....I am on the high side of a mood today...beware for tomorrow! :?

GlennCMC70

10-03-2006, 09:48 PM

Matt, that is the only other option i will not run - the MSR-C 3.1.
there will be nothing good comming from that track.

AI#97

10-03-2006, 10:48 PM

Matt, that is the only other option i will not run - the MSR-C 3.1.
there will be nothing good comming from that track.
Glenn, there were a few of us that had the same thoughts about Houston in november of last year.....stay optimistic!

y5e06

10-03-2006, 11:10 PM

Is this schedule final or is there a chance of a revision? Seems like 3x at single track and mid summer at TWS are two things that most might would rather change? Is that the general concensus?
Is the fee increase we're seeing this coming MSRH weekend due to MSRH or across the board NASA fee increase we expect to see continued through next year too?
Anyone know of any other race series running at E-Canyon prior to Nasa? Teething pains may be something to expect for that event. I'm personally disappointed we're not running MSR-C twice.

mitchntx

10-04-2006, 06:21 AM

Let me clarify ...

I have local sponsors that help my racing program. Without them, I cannot race. They cannot sell oil changes, detail cars, sell tires or work on race cars out of Houston, or College Station.

I have to maintain a local program. They cannot justify their support with 1 local visit. I can't afford to do Schwallenberg events locally AND race.

So, I have to chose ...

I love you guys ... but sometimes economics takes over.

CMC17

10-04-2006, 07:27 AM

:?: :?: :?:

MSR Cresson was on the '05 schedule three times and us Houston guys made it to each event. Cresson was on the schedule two times in '06.

As much as I cannot stomach MSR-C in anyway shape or form lately, we still made the trek.

At least there will be one new track on the schedule for '07.

Personally, I like the schedule and glad the Houston/Austin guys catch a break next year.

But the above is just IMHO. <downs another grain of salt>

marshall_mosty

10-04-2006, 07:39 AM

Matt, that is the only other option i will not run - the MSR-C 3.1.
there will be nothing good comming from that track.

I agree... I don't think the 3.1 either direction is race car friendly if you are trying any side-by-side stuff.

TEXAST1

10-04-2006, 07:53 AM

From what I remember:

May and House-ton equalled about 70 cars and a finacial loss. I think May maybe a tough month for everyone to fit racing in. Priorities messed up :wink:

Hallett is also a money looser only a few cars show for that. I like the track also.

I have been in favor of switching the tracks up over the weekend. CCW on Sat and CW on Sunday, not alot of support. It make it a new challenge instead of the same race 4 times.

What does everyone have against House-ton? I personally think the track has no flow or rythem, but that is just me. :roll:

AllZWay

10-04-2006, 08:17 AM

I don't like the schedule either.

I have never been to Houston, but to have 4 events (1 at TWS) in that area seems a little lop sided for us at the top of Texas.

I will definitely be dropping at least 1 if not 2 of those events.

I like seeing a new track though....just wished to see at least 2 events at MSR-C and 1 at Hallett.

mitchntx

10-04-2006, 08:36 AM

Eric, you have a valid point about "catching a break".

The 07 schedule is very Austin, SA and Houston friendly. Enjoy.

Mike Bell

10-04-2006, 08:57 AM

I kinda like MSRH (backwards might be a different story) but agree that 3 of 6 events is heavy - especially for our northern brethren. I also love Hallett but since I've missed the last two years there I can't say I have done my part in supporting it on the schedule for NASA TX.

I also still like the MSRC 1.7 circuit alot - seems like we've been there a ton but the racing is always great IMHO. Got no idea about the 3.1 other than a video I've seen and some feedback from fellow racers, sounds hairy to me.

TWS in August, seems like it's becoming a tradition for NASA TX. :)

gt40

10-04-2006, 09:08 AM

TWS in August, seems like it's becoming a tradition for NASA TX. :)Yeah -- let's hold an event in the hottest month at the hottest venue! Makes sense to me... :roll:

August should be reserved for Hallett. TWS needs to be very early or very late in the schedule.

donovan

10-04-2006, 09:16 AM

The 07 schedule is very Austin, SA and Houston friendly. Enjoy.

MSR-C is about 20 miles closer to me than MSR-H and I live in South Austin...

DD

Waco Racer

10-04-2006, 09:55 AM

Corner workers are a big factor in determining the schedule. Without them we can't race. Therefore we have to consider SCCA, CVAR, Champ Car, Porsche Club, BMW Club, Motorcycle groups, and DE organizations that all pull from the same pool of volunteers. We tried to get another date at Cresson but it couldn’t be worked out. Apparently, they have a very busy schedule for 2007 and open dates conflicted with other groups. TWS draws a large car count in spite of the date. Hallett does not draw the entries, even from D/FW. They are a great track to work with and maybe they can return to the schedule some day.

CMC17

10-04-2006, 09:58 AM

If we could do MSR-C CW, I'd be up for doing more than one event there. I don't think the 3.1 is racer friendly and see lots of "problems" running it W2W.

I vote for running TWS, MSR-C CW.

2 Houston events
2 Cresson events (1 CW)
1 New track (I know nothing about the layout..etc.)
1 TWS event (CW)

Need to change it up and made it interesting. See who can adapt the quickest and really make it a challenge.

.000001

BSharp

10-04-2006, 10:02 AM

1 New track (I know nothing about the layout..etc.)

http://www.eaglescanyon.com/htm/vision.htm

jeffburch

10-04-2006, 10:06 AM

Did anyone here ever see any of the photos from TWS '05?
I remember standing in the broiling heat out there in my UltraShield wool snowmobile suit for 30 min.

Once again the new section at MSRC is a gocart track at best. What were they thinking?

Houston is flat as a pancake except for the offcamber launch. Again, WWTT? Is Eagle Canyon Flat? Racer Ranch>

jb

jeffburch

10-04-2006, 10:11 AM

I am gonna call Jay-Bird. :evil:

What?
Pet names?

:shock:

jb

AI#97

10-04-2006, 10:17 AM

1 New track (I know nothing about the layout..etc.)

http://www.eaglescanyon.com/htm/vision.htm

Someone should tell them they spelled "philosophy" wrong!

It would be great if any of you that know Rick at DE can find out if he has any dates for this track before we get there.

As for MSR-C being busy....please eloborate. Given NASATX "is the only racing game in TX", it makes me wonder what other events are actually using a RACE TRACK. Maybe I need a different car to race in series that runs a lot of events closer to my home?......sarcasm off....

TEXAST1

10-04-2006, 10:38 AM

I am gonna call Jay-Bird. :evil:

What?
Pet names?

:shock:

jb

I am still working on yours Burch. :P

AI#97

10-04-2006, 10:38 AM

Did anyone here ever see any of the photos from TWS '05?
I remember standing in the broiling heat out there in my UltraShield wool snowmobile suit for 30 min.
jb

I remember missing race 2 this year due to heat exhaustion from sitting and waiting to go through tech for 20 minutes after race 1.....seem to remember an incident with everyone panicking that you were going to bleed to death!! :lol:

jeffburch

10-04-2006, 10:55 AM

CMC17

10-04-2006, 11:10 AM

1 New track (I know nothing about the layout..etc.)

http://www.eaglescanyon.com/htm/vision.htm

Thanks!

That track reminds me of an AFX layout I used as a kid. :D

mitchntx

10-04-2006, 12:12 PM

My first impressions of the MSR-C 3.1 were exactly as those I've seen posted here.

However, after running the course a bunch of laps, my opinion is changing.

The speed and obstacles is really no different that what we would see at TWS T2, T9 or T10.

The track is wide and smooth.

Now, you have to give it some respect. It now how some serious teeth. but it's as racer friendly as most other tracks.

AI#97

10-04-2006, 12:18 PM

MaW,
No panic on my part. I defused the situation as quick as I could but I appreciate your concern regardless.

Once again my apologies to any/all who may have been effected my "bonehead" R1 postrace self inflicted injury.

In the future my I suggest less alcohol and/or caffein consumption prior to the really hot events. Cool shirt maybe, but I know those are only for us old slow farts.

jb
At Will Racing Team

Sorry, Jeff, that did sound like I was holding you accountable for that....I was referring to the all the officials and folks hanging around tech that were in a panic....not you. You were laughing and pissed at yourself while everyone else was treating like a friggin' crime scene....the ambulance even showed up! We were like "sheesh, it's just Burch!"

I got over heated sitting in the car AFTER the race. During wasn't a problem. It was so hot while we were waiting that the bottom of my shoe melted!!!! :shock:

oz98cobra

10-04-2006, 02:20 PM

The schedule is very disappointing indeed, unless of course you live in Houston and also happen to like MSRH? :roll:

I agree with Mitch - MSRC 3.1 is not going to be an issue to race on, and in fact is a whole lot less dangerous than TWS and Hallett when it comes to potential for car or driver damage. I've driven the track many many times now, inlcuding playing wheel to wheel with a pack of 6 other cars in the DriversEdge Instructor group - it will be an absolute BLAST to race on I can promise you that!...if we ever get the opportunity that is?

From the conversations I have had with MSR Cresson management recently and again today, a contributing factor as to why we only see one event on the schedule is because NASA TX left it too late to contact them regarding dates for 07 :cry:

Mike Bell

10-04-2006, 02:43 PM

The schedule is very disappointing indeed, unless of course you live in Houston and also happen to like MSRH? :roll:

Hey Daron, I live in Houston and like MSRH but I'm not interested in seeing my fellow AI/CMC racers put in a pickle to make a race weekend!

michaelmosty

10-04-2006, 03:05 PM

I absolutely love MSRH but am also concerned as to why 50% of next years races are there.
Heck, I'd even like to see 2 events at TWS with 1 being CW and 1 being CCW. (Even though it's a GM track) :wink: TWS is a nicecentral location and always gets a good turn out which I'm sure NASA TX likes.
My $.02

CMC17

10-04-2006, 03:46 PM

I'm all for seeing TWS twice on the schedule. Maybe we would be able to run it when it's cooler and CW.

Observation: I bet "Team Warhorse" will make the events regardless of where they are located and have most miles traveled too. 8)

A)

mitchntx

10-04-2006, 05:21 PM

Observation: I bet "Team Warhorse" will make the events regardless of where they are located and have most miles traveled too. 8)

A)

I can't afford the Red Bull and Twix bars to keep up with those 2 ...

AllZWay

10-05-2006, 11:10 AM

Looks like the official schedule has been posted.

NASA TX

2007 SCHEDULE

6 Events, 4 Tracks, 5 Different Course Configurations

Challenger 1 February 3-4 MSR Houston

2.4-mile Road Course

Challenger 2

(Greg Bruder Memorial) March 3-4 MSR Cresson

1.7-mile Road Course

Challenger 3 April 28-29 Eagle's Canyon RaceWay

2.5-mile Road Course

Challenger 4 June 23-24 MSR Houston

2.4-mile Road Course

Challenger 5 August 4-5 TWS

2.9-mile Road Course

Challenger 6 October 27-28 MSR Houston

2.4-mile Road Course

marshall_mosty

10-05-2006, 05:28 PM

Damn,
I need to tell NASA not to schedule a first weekend in August race... it keeps conflicting with my anniversary...

jeffburch

10-05-2006, 07:11 PM

Damn,
I need to tell NASA not to schedule a first weekend in August race... it keeps conflicting with my anniversary...

OMG that's funny.
Mine's Nov. 27, always right around Thanksgiving.

jb