Msr cresson

[Suck fumes]

Who's going?

[mach1]

I'm thinking about it unless that McSpadden guy shows up and ruins the fun for everyone :-P

[Suck fumes]

Oo cmooonnn. I'm about 80% in.

[marshall_mosty]

Oo cmooonnn. I'm about 80% in.
AI converted CMC car?
Regular CMC car?
SI car?

[Suck fumes]

Cmc car. I never converted cause the AI numbers are always so low.

[ShadowBolt]

I'm already signed up.

JJ

[BryanL]

I'm planning to be there.

[Suck fumes]

Only 6 signed up. Thought this was everyones home track?

[BryanL]

Only 6 signed up. Thought this was everyones home track?

I see 9 plus Mosty and then a check ride for CMC, too. I'm sure there will be some others start trickling in. There will be good tire money to be had and the 55 to pass on the inverts.

[Al Fernandez]

CMC:
Patel
Pedersen (holy shit!)
Robertson
McSpadden
McCormick
Fernandez
Leinart
Jordan
Gardner
Allford

AI:
Stazzoni
Rock
Murray

SI
McSpadden
Kacprowicz

Might make sense for the SI guys to be AI if the numbers stay that way

[ShadowBolt]

CMC:
Patel
Pedersen (holy shit!)
Robertson
McSpadden
McCormick
Fernandez
Leinart
Jordan
Gardner
Allford

AI:
Stazzoni
Rock
Murray

SI
McSpadden
Kacprowicz

Might make sense for the SI guys to be AI if the numbers stay that way

Rock?

[Pranav]

Rock?

That's MISTER ROCK.

[Suck fumes]

Alright 10! Finally a good number

[marshall_mosty]

I'm in for AI

[mach1]

Alright 10! Finally a good number

1637

[Fbody383]

CMC:
...
Pedersen (holy shit!)
...
Allford
Oh no... that ain't right. New Red Shift Racing team car lives?

And FINALLY, the ROCK HAS COME BACK... to AI!

[Pranav]

Watch out for a potential newcomer to AI. Ran into a guy named Stuart running with TDE at TWS this past weekend. Chatted with him for a while and he plans to come up to run DE 4 at Cresson and do comp school at TWS.

His Fox looks pretty prepped and 95% logbook ready, didn't look too closely. He was under the (possible) false belief it wouldn't be legal for AI due to having a watt's link in the back, so he was ready to go down the SI/unlimited TT type path. Told him to reach out to Mosty and the group once he gets to Cresson to see if AI will work for him.

[GlennCMC70]

Watts is AI legal.

[marshall_mosty]

Pranav,
Very cool. There isn't too much that is holy ground on an AI car except the fire wall, floor pan, and upper rear shock mounts. If you hit track width/wheel base and power/weight... Should be just fine.

[Pranav]

Yeah a quick glance at his car didn't lead me to believe that car would have an issue with AI legality. I'll make sure he finds you

[Storm Trooper]

Sorry I am out :-/

[Pranav]

Count me out.

After an 18th month battle with stage IV brain cancer, my uncle peacefully passed away this evening, with his entire extended family by his side. We are all extremely grateful for the time he was able to spend with us, bearing witness to two weddings, and celebrating his 66th birthday last summer.

I ask that you pray not only for our family, but for every family with a loved one engaged in battle with cancer.

He was always the first to ask me how I did at each race. The car is locked and loaded, I'll see you guys at NOLA and Hallett. I'll be sure to make him proud this year.

[BryanL]

Sorry to hear about that Pranav. Seems several F-body's will be missing. Bring your rain boots and those that cheat can bring their rains.

[ShadowBolt]

Sorry to hear about that Pranav. Seems several F-body's will be missing. Bring your rain boots and those that cheat can bring their rains.

What mean um "rains"?

[GlennCMC70]

Hope to see you guys one of the two days. Got a Sat tournament to coach if the rains stays away.

[Al Fernandez]

Pranav sorry to hear that

[Storm Trooper]

Pranav we are so sorry. Our prayers are with you and your family.

[dtanker65]

Pranav I am sorry to hear that buddy, 66 is way too young. My thoughts and prayers for you and your family. We will miss you.

Dennis

[AllZWay]

Pranav.. Sorry to hear about your loss.

[Pranav]

Thanks guys. The family was very prepared for it, and I don't think he would have had it any other way.

Despite missing TWS for a wedding, I'm still working away on the car and on myself. I have at least one DE planned between now and NOLA so watch your butts!

[dtanker65]

I got to drive Nola for the first time. A fast track and the essess are an absolute blast! The track is not too hard to pick up and the facility is first class. It is for sure worth the pull for a chance to race there!

[ShadowBolt]

I got to drive Nola for the first time. A fast track and the essess are an absolute blast! The track is not too hard to pick up and the facility is first class. It is for sure worth the pull for a chance to race there!

Not a ton of places to pass but I agree the facility is great.

I am worried about parking places this weekend. MSRC is tight and does not really have enough parking area. I have been asking for years what are we going to do if it is too wet to park in the grass and we all have to park on the asphalt? I bet in a normal race or DE weekend there are 50 vehicles parked in the grass. I don't think there is any bottom out there. I think if you park in the grass you will sink to the axles.



JJ

[marshall_mosty]

Jerry,
Can you try and get the area we had last time??

[ShadowBolt]

I am going to try.

JJ

[dtanker65]

Congratulations on the awards tonight Pranav Patel and Sean Richardson!

[Storm Trooper]

Congratulations on the awards tonight Pranav Patel and Sean Richardson!

Thanks Dennis :p
I am very flattered.

[Pranav]

Thanks Dennis. The "Hard Charger" award is gonna be a hit with the ladies.

[JJordan]

R4 Lap 1. Watch my right mirror starting at 1:18 when Craig hits the nitrous!!! I'm glad everyone was okay. I thought for sure someone had to be hurt with how fast Craig flew by me. I was looking everywhere for a red flag.

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/158868244" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p><a href="https://vimeo.com/158868244">MSR - R4 - Lap1</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user1404939">Jay Jordan</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

-Jay

[edrock96GT]

I was only able to record R1 and R3. R1 sucked, so here's R3 (part 1...thanks, youtube).
https://www.facebook.com/eddie.rock.52/posts/10153636433008208?notif_t=like

Jerry, that was one hell of a view! I'm just glad they are okay, cars can be fixed...

[ShadowBolt]

That was Jay driving R4.

Stop the video at 1:20 and I don't think there was a 1/4" between Craig's car and mine.

Jerry

[Suck fumes]

Brakes fail?

[ShadowBolt]

Brakes fail?

I did not talk to Craig but that is what I was told. Almost had to be.

JJ

[Daniel Allford]

When your brakes fail spin the car to scrub off speed. It is better for all parties.
I learned this from James Proctor years ago when I witnessed him loosing a brake line.

I know of at least 4 CMC/AI brake failures and you need a plan beforehand.

Thanks to James for saving my ass when I lost my brakes at MSR H.

Dan #47

[ShadowBolt]

When your brakes fail spin the car to scrub off speed. It is better for all parties.
I learned this from James Proctor years ago when I witnessed him loosing a brake line.

I know of at least 4 CMC/AI brake failures and you need a plan beforehand.

Thanks to James for saving my ass when I lost my brakes at MSR H.

Dan #47

Great plan Dan. Just to clarify James did not lose a brake line but the brake pedal rod came off. Pedal just flopping and zero brakes.

JJ

[edrock96GT]

When your brakes fail spin the car to scrub off speed. It is better for all parties.
I learned this from James Proctor years ago when I witnessed him loosing a brake line.

I know of at least 4 CMC/AI brake failures and you need a plan beforehand.

Thanks to James for saving my ass when I lost my brakes at MSR H.

Dan #47

That was his original plan, but the idea of hitting the inside rumple strip at any kind of angle other than straight seemed like it could've ended much worse.

[BryanL]

What a weekend. First want to thank Mark Smith for his incredible hospitality! Second thanks to everyone who was there for such a fun weekend including having my wife, kids, and Dad out. Sure was fun teaching my kids to ride the little 50 around at the track and having my son follow me around in the garage.
Congrats to all the winners and to Michael Mosty for winning a much deserved Driver of the Year in addition to Pranav and Sean's awards-well done guys. Really great to be able to showcase that to the rest of NASA. Now all we need to do is work to shake our contact stigma. Which brings us to the downer for the weekend.
Yes, Craig lost his brakes totally at the braking zone for Little Bend. He had video so will post it this week but sure it was a scary ride. I didn't have a clue it was going to happen so was pretty surprising. Fortunately everyone is going to be okay and cars can be fixed or replaced. Again I believe the safety equipment and specifically my halo seat did it's job. But certainly need to look into a few more upgrades on safety with a new helmet/visor and considering a fuel cell. All in all I think we are lucky it wasn't much worse. But I agree we should have a safety discussion on here specifically related to brake lines, possible failures, or anything preventative.
Here again the group is what is awesome as the help/advice/parts that have been offered is great to see. More to follow.

[ShadowBolt]

What a weekend. First want to thank Mark Smith for his incredible hospitality! Second thanks to everyone who was there for such a fun weekend including having my wife, kids, and Dad out. Sure was fun teaching my kids to ride the little 50 around at the track and having my son follow me around in the garage.
Congrats to all the winners and to Michael Mosty for winning a much deserved Driver of the Year in addition to Pranav and Sean's awards-well done guys. Really great to be able to showcase that to the rest of NASA. Now all we need to do is work to shake our contact stigma. Which brings us to the downer for the weekend.
Yes, Craig lost his brakes totally at the braking zone for Little Bend. He had video so will post it this week but sure it was a scary ride. I didn't have a clue it was going to happen so was pretty surprising. Fortunately everyone is going to be okay and cars can be fixed or replaced. Again I believe the safety equipment and specifically my halo seat did it's job. But certainly need to look into a few more upgrades on safety with a new helmet/visor and considering a fuel cell. All in all I think we are lucky it wasn't much worse. But I agree we should have a safety discussion on here specifically related to brake lines, possible failures, or anything preventative.
Here again the group is what is awesome as the help/advice/parts that have been offered is great to see. More to follow.


I also wanted to thank Mark Smith for letting us use his garage (even if he did not know anyone but Bryan would be there).

I'm glad everyone was okay. Jay was pretty shook up thinking Craig and/or Bryan were hurt bad.

Bryan,
What was the failure? Was it one of the clips you were worried about the day before? If so that is weird! A part like that should be safety wired. I have not talked to Craig so I don't know if he broke a rotor or lost fluid but I worry about the old brake lines under the car. Most if not all of us have installed new lines from the stock chassis line to the caliper but what about the old lines that were installed by the factory in 198?


JJ

[BlueFirePony]

Great to see some of you guys again, if only for a moment. I had planned to hang out all weekend but my father passed away last week and had a hard time keeping a smile on my face - did not want to be a wet blanket. The one regret I have with my dad is we never got him out to the track like we always said we would. Logistics made it tough (most of my family is in Canada, Kyri has the car in Ohio) and there seemed like there was always "another chance"....turns out there wasn't.
Planning to see you all at TWS and still working on getting Kyri and BFP out to Hallet.

[Trublu]

You've got no idea how glad I am Bryan is ok, Dan's damage was minor and the rest of you were spectators. thank you all for the concern and offers of help, particularly Mike and Al for loading the car. I visited the doc as a precaution today, the aches n pains will be gone soon enough. I can confirm the brake pedal went straight to the floor at little bend and avoided Jay to the right as the rumble strip approached I was attempting to limit contact with the field, unfortunately that didnt work out as well as I had planned. Bryan and I talked through it today, the cars will mend and we live to tell the tale. I'm not going to say too much more until I get a chance to find the root cause but thanks again to the great group that is AICMC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXU6sBZbBBM

[AllZWay]

Wow... that sucks for all involved. Having had two failures, I know how scary it can be and also how little time you have to think about your options.

For the record.. the first was the pedal falling off the rod. The clip had sprung and came off. This time I chose wrong.. I should have went right instead of left and might have saved the car completely.

The second time was a broken brake line at Hallett.. Luckily I chose correctly and spun the car to right and to avoid everyone. Mosty's failure helped me know where to spin for a failure in that area.

Glad everyone was okay... that was a really scary ride.

[ShadowBolt]

You've got no idea how glad I am Bryan is ok, Dan's damage was minor and the rest of you were spectators. thank you all for the concern and offers of help, particularly Mike and Al for loading the car. I visited the doc as a precaution today, the aches n pains will be gone soon enough. I can confirm the brake pedal went straight to the floor at little bend and avoided Jay to the right as the rumble strip approached I was attempting to limit contact with the field, unfortunately that didnt work out as well as I had planned. Bryan and I talked through it today, the cars will mend and we live to tell the tale. I'm not going to say too much more until I get a chance to find the root cause but thanks again to the great group that is AICMC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXU6sBZbBBM


Thank the good Lord everyone is okay. Whatever you do Craig don't let anyone tell you what you should have done. The decision has to be made in a nano-second. No time to think through the different possibilities.


JJ

[mach1]

Thank the good Lord everyone is okay. Whatever you do Craig don't let anyone tell you what you should have done. The decision has to be made in a nano-second. No time to think through the different possibilities.


JJ
Exactly, thank God. I've been in the same situation with a brake failure and 2 totaled cars were the result, what it did do for me, is make me think about bailout options more, but I will admit that I haven't been thinking about it enough lately because time has gone on.

[BryanL]

Yeah that was a scary ride. Craig had to go through my worst fear which is hurting someone else and something I hope I never go through. I went to my chiropractor and did a cryotherapy session today and will be fine. Since the collision shop is on the way to where I store the trailer I decided to drop the car there last night to get checked out. He believed it would pull out and then need some new body parts from a donor car.

James how/where did your brake line fail? Is there any way to inspect or be proactive/preventative and replace all the lines? Is it something that should be considered due to the age of all our cars now?

[BryanL]

Oh yeah-something else I saw when I was in the corner stand. What happened with the red S197 after ricochet? Looked like it blew a motor but then figured it was actually the halon system going off?

[Pranav]

Glad you guys are all right. That was hard to watch :(


James how/where did your brake line fail? Is there any way to inspect or be proactive/preventative and replace all the lines? Is it something that should be considered due to the age of all our cars now?

I know Craig needs time to investigate his failure, so I don't want to add speculation on his issue just yet by talking about brake lines, but wanted to point out something all 4th gen guys should consider...

In regards to our cars, back in '12 when I bugged Glenn and Mitch on a daily basis about all kinds of questions, I learned that completely ripping out every single hard line on the 4th gen camaro and starting over is a good idea.

The front brake lines are not too bad, but on the LT1 cars, they run way too close to the exhaust through the K-member. I'm unaware of any failures that have occured on the front lines, but the constant heat cycles from the exhaust can't help at all. We run new line from the master cylinder down to the front, punching bulk head holes near/below the shock towers, and running custom made flex line to the calipers behind the spindle. The run from driver's to passenger's runs along the lower radiator support up to the passenger frame rail and bulkhead connection.

The rear brake line is the real issue. It is underneath the car and at risk of damage from on track debris. Additionally it is exposed to the elements and at risk of corrosion and eventual rupture, making them ticking time bombs as most of these cars are pushing 20+ years. I want to say Sean's 3rd gen ruptured the factory hard line back at NOLA not too long ago. Here we do a bulkhead connection at the firewall, run it through the cabin and out the back firewall close to where the factory brake hose clips in.

For my re-plumb job I used Allstar 3/16 hard line and fittings, Edelmann metric to 3/8-24 adapters at the master cylinder (you can get them at O'reillys), and Earl's speed-flex 3AN PTFE hose and steel, non-swivel fittings.

While you're under the car, take a long, hard look at the factory fuel lines and take note of how a bent torque arm can wipe out those lines in short order; last month I bent a torque arm and it rubbed hard along where the factory lines used to run.

Last year, I re-plumbed my setup to run Aeroquip 6AN PTFE (3000psi rated, my fuel system is 43psi) hose through the cabin, although I am re-doing some of it this weekend to make it a little safer after reading about the COTA WRL incident. I'll be ditching bulkheads connections at both firewalls for a straight run-through, relocating the fuel filter, and using high temperature liquid-tite conduit+bulkheads to completely isolate the lines as they pass through the cabin.

While we're on the subject, take a close look how the factory nylon lines run through the driver's fenderwell. If you aren't running a fenderliner here you may be asking for trouble!

[dtanker65]

I was glad to see Craig get out under his own steam too. I completely agree with Jerry, with the speed that incident unfolded, Craig only had nanoseconds to access it and to respond. Contacting Bryan's car away from the driver compartment made the best of a bad situation. Spinning into the field out of control could have been a lot worse.

[dtanker65]

Rob Kacprowicz had his extinguisher go off

[marshall_mosty]

It's good to hear that both driver's are okay. I was able to talk to Brian afterwards, but didn't have a chance to touch base with Craig.
On the brake line discussion, I re-routed all my lines inside the car (mainly due to the ABS pump), but all the lines are new. Also, my flexible lines (6 of them) are all the same PN, so it makes replacement easy.

[AllZWay]

James how/where did your brake line fail? Is there any way to inspect or be proactive/preventative and replace all the lines? Is it something that should be considered due to the age of all our cars now?

Mine actually broke off the flare going into the master cylinder.

[Pranav]

Mine actually broke off the flare going into the master cylinder.

Was it a factory or custom line? Just curious...

[AllZWay]

Was it a factory or custom line? Just curious...

It was a factory flare. Just metal fatigued from the flex of the master cylinder. Have you have had someone push the brake pedal and watch your master cylinder move? It is pretty scary how far that thing moves.

[Pranav]

Yep, it's why both of the lines that I've run from the MC have coils in them!

[BryanL]

Yep, it's why both of the lines that I've run from the MC have coils in them!

Need pics of that. I certainly don't know enough about it and will look it over but a new set of custom lines does scare me some as maybe more chances for failure. Though I need to look over a few cars and the abs delete setup that louis did for the black car. Like James said it will all probably scare me quite a bit.

[mach1]

My LS F-bodies have had braided lines coming off the MC, probably because of the flex issue.

Edit:It was off the ABS pump, not the MC, hrmm.

[marshall_mosty]

Dan showed me how much his flexed... Scary!! I would build a support bar that would put the load from the MC into the strut tower and just not have it rigidly connected (don't want to violate any CMC rules)...

[GlennCMC70]

Not legal.

[Supercharged111]

R4 Lap 1. Watch my right mirror starting at 1:18 when Craig hits the nitrous!!! I'm glad everyone was okay. I thought for sure someone had to be hurt with how fast Craig flew by me. I was looking everywhere for a red flag.

<iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/158868244" width="500" height="281" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe>
<p><a href="https://vimeo.com/158868244">MSR - R4 - Lap1</a> from <a href="https://vimeo.com/user1404939">Jay Jordan</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

-Jay

Holy fuckin LOL that was spectacular! Were the 2 victims substantially damaged? Looked like a shower of plastic from the vid.

[Alien]

Found a clip of Craig practicing at Sebring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3yrxrcxTUc

Too soon?

[mach1]

Found a clip of Craig practicing at Sebring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3yrxrcxTUc

Too soon?
Wow

[Al Fernandez]

hahaha that video is awesome

[Trublu]

Man if that was me I'd have pulled into valet parking at the hotel and propped up at the bar

[Supercharged111]

That front end looked like it held up nice through the fence. I can only imagine what was going through the guy's mind in the Ford truck that was pulling out onto the road.

[dtanker65]

Found a clip of Craig practicing at Sebring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3yrxrcxTUc

Too soon?

Nice! Wasn't it Chuck Yeager who said that when crashing is inevitable, find the softest thing you can find and hit it as slowly as possible?

[Storm Trooper]

Found a clip of Craig practicing at Sebring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3yrxrcxTUc

Too soon?

Been there done that!

[Alien]

Well, apparently LT1's don't like high volume oil pumps. Found out today the culprit of my retirement after R1 was the oil pump drive gear being pretty chewed up and missing teeth. Going back with a new stock gear and hope it plays nice with a used cam. Optimistic to get it back from the machine shop and in the car for TWS.

[Supercharged111]

Holy fuckin LOL that was spectacular! Were the 2 victims substantially damaged? Looked like a shower of plastic from the vid.

Oohwee, watching that again is not pretty. How'd Craig come out?

[Pranav]

Well, apparently LT1's don't like high volume oil pumps. Found out today the culprit of my retirement after R1 was the oil pump drive gear being pretty chewed up and missing teeth. Going back with a new stock gear and hope it plays nice with a used cam. Optimistic to get it back from the machine shop and in the car for TWS.

Did you notice if the drive gear's plastic retainer up top was split or not? I've pulled one or two before that were split, not tooo big of a deal but someone out there made a metal insert to reinforce it. I think with the direction it spins the split wouldn't be too big of a deal, but adds piece of mind.

[Storm Trooper]

Did you notice if the drive gear's plastic retainer up top was split or not? I've pulled one or two before that were split, not tooo big of a deal but someone out there made a metal insert to reinforce it. I think with the direction it spins the split wouldn't be too big of a deal, but adds piece of mind.

You should always run a hardened oil pump shaft! They have a metal retainer pined on the assembly.

[ShadowBolt]

Well, apparently LT1's don't like high volume oil pumps. Found out today the culprit of my retirement after R1 was the oil pump drive gear being pretty chewed up and missing teeth. Going back with a new stock gear and hope it plays nice with a used cam. Optimistic to get it back from the machine shop and in the car for TWS.

When I started building the first Ford SOHC 4.6 for the 55 I was going to use a high volume pump but after talking to Sean Hyland he told me they made a set of cam covers out of clear polycarbonate. While running the 4.6 with HV oil pump the cam covers filled up with oil........Not good. He did say if you are willing to drill the heads so the oil can get back to the pan faster the HV pump is okay.


JJ

[mach1]

I've heard nothing but bad stories about the HV oil pumps, I have never run one. I guess if you run the motor really loose they shouldn't be a big deal, I usually run .0015-.002 on the mains and rods. I suppose they would work well with really light oil too, I run Rotella 5w-40..

[Pranav]

You should always run a hardened oil pump shaft! They have a metal retainer pined on the assembly.

Yeah, I do run a metal pump shaft; I'm talking about the upper drive gear stub that goes up top on LT1s; no one sells it in metal that I know of anymore:

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/attachments/c4-parts-for-sale-wanted/47680212d1315742063-f-s-lt1-lt4-oil-pump-gear-drive-ebay-095.jpg

[Storm Trooper]

When your brakes fail spin the car to scrub off speed. It is better for all parties.
I learned this from James Proctor years ago when I witnessed him loosing a brake line.

I know of at least 4 CMC/AI brake failures and you need a plan beforehand.

Thanks to James for saving my ass when I lost my brakes at MSR H.

Dan #47

My Thanks to James and Dan for this!
I lost my right front caliper in R1 last lap going into 15. I rembered "spin to scrub speed" I threw the car in to a spin in the gravel, I still hit the tire wall on the side. It could of been much worse!
Thanks for Saving my Ass!!

[Supercharged111]

My Thanks to James and Dan for this!
I lost my right front caliper in R1 last lap going into 15. I rembered "spin to scrub speed" I threw the car in to a spin in the gravel, I still hit the tire wall on the side. It could of been much worse!
Thanks for Saving my Ass!!

Thanks to Michael Mosty's brake failure video, I knew where to point my car when I locked all 4 in the rain last year at Hallett practice. Was the difference between going in the trees and zero damage.

[AllZWay]

Thanks to Michael Mosty's brake failure video, I knew where to point my car when I locked all 4 in the rain last year at Hallett practice. Was the difference between going in the trees and zero damage.
I learned a lot from that failure and knew where to go when I had a failure in the exact same spot.