Anyone here raced in COMMA?

[mitchntx]

http://www.hallettracing.net/comma.html

[NASA13]

Chris
Bud?
Shannon Matus
Wayne?

I heard it was great fun. I will definitely go if stupid NASA doesnt go back to Hallett next year.

[BSharp]

COMMA is a lot of fun. They only have 3 classes, if you are too fast for a class, they put in a faster class. Done. Run what you brung.

[mitchntx]

And at a tick over $200 for a weekend ...

Maybe we can coordinate a couple weekends for a group of us "yankees" to go north.

The spring is completely out for me. Work schedule keeps me from participating.

[GlennCMC70]

i'm up for running a restrictor plateless weekend. maybe i can find some 315 hoosiers for my 17x11 wheels.
post the schedule and lets talk about what weekend looks best.

[BSharp]

It is always the last weekend of the month, mar-oct. http://www.hallettracing.net/

[AI#97]

It is always the last weekend of the month, mar-oct. http://www.hallettracing.net/

Sounds like May be the month! :wink:

[oz98cobra]

Instead of us all running off to race with COMMA, lets imagine for a moment - hyperthetically speaking - that there was another NASA region formed to run North TX and OK?

Existing NASA TX could run the southern tracks - TWS, MSRH, and maybe Grandsport if/when it becomes usable - and the northern group could run MSRC, Hallett, Eagles Canyon and maybe Racers Ranch if that pans out?

Texas is after all a big state and a big population with a bunch of tracks - and it's growing bigger than it seems that one regional body can cater for? It would be a similar situation to how it is in CA, with North and South regions?

Of course there would be quite a bit of cross over with racers easily able to run events in both regions - and with 10 to 12 weekends between them, we would have no shortage of opportunity to race? (6 weekends just doesn't cut it for me - it's hard ot justify the cost of building a race car and attracting sponsors just to run half a dozen weekends per year!)

Would there be any interest/support if this could happen?

[AI#97]

Yes! However, let's walk before we can run because the field is so small now, cut that in half and racing against 3 cars isn't any fun.

Given the weather here in Texas, we should be running an event each month from February to November with the one break for nationals. Then I can justify the costs..... 6 events..., sounds like time to start a race car RENTAL business!

[Waco Racer]

Daron,

Has any more come of a "Texas Iron" exhibition with The Drivers Edge? There are some gaps in the schedule that could be filled by a MSR-C 3.1 race.

[mitchntx]

Daron, while an interesting concept and patterned after SoCal and Norcal regions, car count has apparently dwindled to the point where NASA-Tx can't sustain it's own, much less 2 NASA-Tx.

I'm not advocating that anyone NOT race in NASA-Tx.

FOr those of us who will be schedule, commitment and distance challenged by the preliminary schedule AND want's a "fix" AND likes the Hallett track, this might be a viable alternative.

Like I said in the other thread, I can't make good on my sponsor commitments and have 1/2 the races in Houston.

[Mike Bell]

Man, I'd hate to see a split and only race with you North TX guys on an occasional basis. I'd rather we cut a deal with a DE organization that let us all get out onto MSRC and do our stuff than see the region go back to 4 cars per class type racing.

[CMC17]

Nothing draws in more racers than seeing 3-4 cars in the field. :roll:

[jeffburch]

I see it as, it's hard to be critical if you didn't participate 100%.
Since I won't be 100% next year, remind me I said this LOL!

jb

[NASA13]

it wouldnt split the fields dorks. Everyone would run with the best region and the other would wither and die......

[jeffburch]

One would certainly hope so!

jb

[GlennCMC70]

it wouldnt split the fields dorks. Everyone would run with the best region and the other would wither and die......

Cory has been flying cargo planes! his last load had common sence on it and he took some w/ him! it had to be said (what Cory said, not me).
there is not enough to run two, the better one will survive.

[oz98cobra]

Daron,

Has any more come of a "Texas Iron" exhibition with The Drivers Edge? There are some gaps in the schedule that could be filled by a MSR-C 3.1 race.

Maybe - but remember that won't be a real race, just an exhibition.

[oz98cobra]

Yes! However, let's walk before we can run because the field is so small now, cut that in half and racing against 3 cars isn't any fun.

Given the weather here in Texas, we should be running an event each month from February to November with the one break for nationals. Then I can justify the costs..... 6 events..., sounds like time to start a race car RENTAL business!

There are over 40 cars in our region already, and that number will continue to grow for some time despite some turnover - especially with some promotion in the right areas. Anyway, the field won't be cut in half because many of us would race both regions for many of the races - as you highlighted with your second comment Matt.


Man, I'd hate to see a split and only race with you North TX guys on an occasional basis. I'd rather we cut a deal with a DE organization that let us all get out onto MSRC and do our stuff than see the region go back to 4 cars per class type racing.

Well, with the schedule for 07 the way it is Mike, you'd better get used to racing with us Nth TX guys on an occasional basis! :cry:

This just isn't about AI/CMC, but all classes - already at many events in 06 there were too many groups on the schedule which reduced track time per group, etc. So what happens as classes like GPC and ASC grow in our region (which they are - I know of new cars being prepared for both classes for 07) Chuck them all in with AI/CMC and end up with the 50+ car fields you guys have been talking about lately? No thank you!

Fact is that with only 6 races on the schedule, and 4 of them down in the Houston area, Nth Texas racers are not getting what we need, and it is not going to help grow NASA in the area. TX/OK/AR/LA is a plenty big enough area and population to justify 2 regions!

[TEXAST1]

I know from talking to Matus Inc, they wanted to have more races in a season but struggle to have the car counts neccessary to make good sense. 2 of them last season were finacial disasters.

I am in favor of at least 1 more in DFW. Maybe at The Eagles. We would need to commit a car count to ensure it is not a bad move from a finacial stand point.

There was also some grumbling last season that NASA TX had too many races.

I have complained to Matus Inc several times about either getting rid of the open wheel cars or making them run in 1 run group. How many showed up at the national championship? Then something about speed differential between FM and FV, cummon! Look at the lap times between the front cars at the championships and the 944 Cups in my run group. 15-20 seconds a lap. :roll:

[CMC17]

Simple fact:

Those wanting to race will show up. The others won't.

If us poor Houstonites can show up to Cression x3 in one season, then WTF?

8) :lol:

[jeffburch]

Reminder:


The 2006 season has(had) us at MSRH 3 times as well.
So, this is a 2 year trend.

Also, with the supposed rate increase at Houston, the other clubs bailed moving their dates elsewhere (MSRC). Tardy groups (guess) got left with scraps or none. So, get ready for more fee increases!!

jb

[Waco Racer]

The schedule for Oct. 21-22 will be out by the end of the week. Take a good look at it. It will be the basis for the event schedules for next year. The only exception will be Group 5 & 8 will be split. The FV class won't be at every event. The FM class may only be at the March Greg Bruder Memorial event. The TSRS Late Models might come back to TWS only. Track time will not be reduced based on this type of schedule. I would like another race in North Texas as well, but as Kevin said there were some complaints that 7 events were too many. If there are as many cars as Daron says in this region and they show up at the events, then there will be no reason for increased fees.

[NASA13]

I know from talking to Matus Inc, they wanted to have more races in a season but struggle to have the car counts neccessary to make good sense. 2 of them last season were finacial disasters.



I am confused how they could be financial disasters. Hallett rents for 2500-3500
everyone works for 70 bucks a day+ hotels safety crew etc.
Must be alot of hidden costs? maybe last minute airline tickets??
Either that or financial disaster means losing 5k on ene event and making 20k on the rest??
Disaster means nobody shows up. Anything else is the risk you assume for the privilege of running a race group in TX.

70 cars * 300 = 21000
I am guessing it costs 15-25k to run one event.
100+ cars at most events. should be doing fine. Am I lost?

[Waco Racer]

Yes

[GlennCMC70]

i keep hearing the total # of events as a responce to the complaint of the # of events @ MSR-H. like i said, no reason to run 3 events @ MSR-H and only 1 event @ all the other tracks we go to. there should be 2 @ another venue or all venues before w/ do a triple @ any one. there should be a healthy mix of tracks. i'm good w/ 6 events as 7 was too many.

[y5e06]

Am I lost?

Yes

Well then please enlighten us to what it really costs to run an weekend.
We hear about high overhead costs and see the increased fees but never see any of the blanks filled in to justify to us, the customer, the values behind it.

[jeffburch]

i keep hearing the total # of events as a responce to the complaint of the # of events @ MSR-H. like i said, no reason to run 3 events @ MSR-H and only 1 event @ all the other tracks we go to. there should be 2 @ another venue or all venues before w/ do a triple @ any one. there should be a healthy mix of tracks. i'm good w/ 6 events as 7 was too many.

Houston is the only track with ANY available dates.


jb

[GlennCMC70]

maybe so, but they had a MSR date they let go. they also had a Hallett date they let go.

[Waco Racer]

Am I lost?

Yes

Well then please enlighten us to what it really costs to run an weekend.
We hear about high overhead costs and see the increased fees but never see any of the blanks filled in to justify to us, the customer, the values behind it.

I've given enough clues in my posts to answer most questions. Tracks are not "turn-key" and there is a certain level of staff required to host en event. Most likely many of the things that racers take for granted at an event is an additional charge to the sanctioning body.

[Waco Racer]

maybe so, but they had a MSR date they let go. they also had a Hallett date they let go.

The MSR date is in conflict with the Champ Car race so corner workers are scarce. Hallett participation is too low.

[Mike Bell]

Guys, this isn't the first year it's been "geographically biased". Back in 2003 all three NASA TX events were at MSRC. Then, in 2004 we had 3 at MSRC, 1 at HMRC, and 1 at TWS. 100% and 80% up north respectively. 2005 saw 3 MSRC events and a HMRC event as well.

Now we see the schedule going the other way, neither is optimal IMHO. Got to be a happy medium somewhere/somehow.

[oz98cobra]

... i'm good w/ 6 events as 7 was too many.

You might be good with 6 events, but most people won't be! And what if you can't make one or two of the weekends for some reason - there are not that many events left to make up for it?

Take a look at the other regions schedules - The "norm" is 7 plus, even in the states that are covered with snow for 3 months of the year! - SoCal has 9, NorCal has about 24! (we'll a bunch anyway, even if you don't count the HPDE only events). But Texas - which should be a fast growing region, is dropping back to just 6?

If it remains a single region, I'd like to see 8 race weekends in TX, with a balanced mix of tracks, and I don't think that is too many to get a good car count at each?

[oz98cobra]

maybe so, but they had a MSR date they let go. they also had a Hallett date they let go.

The MSR date is in conflict with the Champ Car race so corner workers are scarce. Hallett participation is too low.

Perhaps for the 08 season, thought should be given to the schedule WAY early in 07 so that track dates and corner workers can be reserved before others get them. Most agree that TWS needs to be moved out of August to start with - but we certainly don't want it dropped (in fact we want more than one event there, preferably run CW like the SCCA does). I also think Hallet would be viable if the date was moved to a better time of year and it was promoted in the right circles - the June date this year was sandwiched between a couple of other high profile events, including the mid america meet, so both race and especially HPDE car counts are going to suffer for it.

3 dates at Houston would be fine ... but only if we have 9 weekends on the calendar!

From what I understand, most orgs start working on their schedules and talking to tracks in July, so get in before that.

[Mike Bell]

I'm good with 6 regional events as well. Factor in the National event and that's alot of racing IMHO.

Sounds to me like Texas needs more corner-workers from what Clifton is saying.

[CMC17]

Do other regions run four races per weekend? Three? Just curious

[Todd Covini]

Trust me.
7 events per year with drops is just right.
BTDT...got the data to prove it from an attendance perspective.

8 events starts to be too much.
6 events starts to be too little.

In fact, with only 6 events....our 2007 drop policy will be in question.
Personally, I think the need for drops begins at 7 events.

We also don't know if we'll be racing 3 or 4 races per weekend next year.

As the # of races decreases, the need for more of them to count statistically goes up to fairly crown a champion. There may be no drops next season.

Much work to do...and the 4th annual banquet will be a good one! :wink:

-=- Todd

[AI#97]

We also don't know if we'll be racing 3 or 4 races per weekend next year.

-=- Todd

Whoa! so there is a potential for ONLY 18 races next year?

Anyone want to get a great deal on a competitive AI car?! You can get it for about a 1/3 of what I have in it. I am buying a street car and see you in the DE's and time trials.

We definitely need to discuss A LOT at Banquet 4.... :shock:

[Todd Covini]

We run the most races of any region by far.
The Midwest group runs 2 races per weekend.
California runs 2-3 races per weekend.

We've had it great...

-=- Todd

[Todd Covini]

We could make Nationals a points weekend giving us 7 events on the Texas calendar with the usual drops...that probably makes the most sense!

-=- Todd

[donovan]

Lets change this year to no drops... and lets change last year as well...

Lets see, that would bump me from 3rd last year to 2nd, and this year I just about have 1st wrapped up...

I hate drops...

DD

[jeffburch]

If I recall the banquet is a celibratory type of deal honoring season accomplishments.
Am I wrong?
I hope it isn't open bitchfest.

jb

[dirwin]

Just a little perspective since SCCA has the 2007 schedule up.

Double regionals (2 races per weekend) 2 events

Regional/Nationals (1 regional class race per event) 3 events

Double nationals ( 0 regional class races per event) 3 events

Regional/Enduro (1 regional class race per event) 1 event

If you bring an AI/CMC AND you are lucky enough for them to ALLOW you to run with SP (regional only class) you will be able to race your car in 8 - 25 minute races the WHOLE YEAR and you have to load up and make 6 events to get those 8 races. If you are a lowly regional only driver you have to leave on Saturday, you can't be on the track Sunday at all. It also requires 4 events (not races) to qualify for your national license.

Not to mention that in those 6 events, three are at MSR Houston, one MSR Cresson, one TMS and one TWS.

Also, if you want to go out with HPDE to test something out OH WAIT, my bad there is not HPDE in SCCA....

[Mike Bell]

If I recall the banquet is a celibratory type of deal honoring season accomplishments.
Am I wrong?
I hope it isn't open bitchfest.

jb

Well, other than the obligatory "$#$%%#$@" when a GM takes the CMC Championship I've got no bitching planned. :D

[TEXAST1]

Dave, the more you write the more I like you! :!:

Let me preface this statement first by saying, I think we need 7 events a year and 1 more in the DFW area. MSR Cresson, Eagles, TMS (boring but close expensive).

Some of you are new enough to racing and unable to actually appreciate having a choice of tracks. Let me date myself some:

1997 SCCA National Races, TWS 1.8 CW, TWS 1.8 CCW, repeat. Cabannis Air Field (a blown-out hole in Corpus very hard on car brakes and finish) Abeline Airport.

Basically it boiled down to what direction of the short TWS track you were running.

I am gratetful to have the opportunity to go to several tracks in Texas and more are coming :!: :D

[mitchntx]

Simple fact:

Those wanting to race will show up. The others won't.

If us poor Houstonites can show up to Cression x3 in one season, then WTF?

8) :lol:

Yes, but which track? ;)

Cresson x3 was when there was no MSR-H, right?

[CMC17]

Simple fact:

Those wanting to race will show up. The others won't.

If us poor Houstonites can show up to Cression x3 in one season, then WTF?

8) :lol:

Yes, but which track? ;)

Cresson x3 was when there was no MSR-H, right?

:D Yes, but there was a TWS. 8) I guess I don't like MSRC because I always have problems there. Bad juju fo' me.

[mitchntx]

Typical politician ... skew the facts to make 1/2 truths.

:roll:

8)

[AI#97]

Dave, the more you write the more I like you! :!:

Let me preface this statement first by saying, I think we need 7 events a year and 1 more in the DFW area. MSR Cresson, Eagles, TMS (boring but close expensive).

Some of you are new enough to racing and unable to actually appreciate having a choice of tracks. Let me date myself some:

1997 SCCA National Races, TWS 1.8 CW, TWS 1.8 CCW, repeat. Cabannis Air Field (a blown-out hole in Corpus very hard on car brakes and finish) Abeline Airport.

Basically it boiled down to what direction of the short TWS track you were running.

I am gratetful to have the opportunity to go to several tracks in Texas and more are coming :!: :D

Yes Kevin, but we are racers and human beings so can we honestly stop bitching about not having enough???? no.....we must always bitch! it's the NASA TX way!!!! yay!!!! :wink:

[Mike Bell]

Typical politician ... skew the facts to make 1/2 truths.

:roll:

8)

OK, where is Mitch Warren and what have you done with him? :lol:

[mitchntx]

Some of you are new enough to racing and unable to actually appreciate having a choice of tracks. Let me date myself some:


I also appreciate not having the starter button on the floor, gear selection behind a button on the dash and changing the oil meaning the air filter, too. And kids, if you don't understand, look it up!

The world has changed a bit since you were campaigning your Hudson.

But reading further ... are you suggesting we hold every race at a single track like back in "your" day?

The dirt track boys do it and seem to like it just fine.

:wink:

[mitchntx]

Typical politician ... skew the facts to make 1/2 truths.

:roll:

8)

OK, where is Mitch Warren and what have you done with him? :lol:

If I can't race on teh track, I'm gonna race here.

[GlennCMC70]

the problem w/ the dirt track example is a circle is a circle is a circle.


- Glenn "no circle racing" Landrum :wink:

[TEXAST1]

Some of you are new enough to racing and unable to actually appreciate having a choice of tracks. Let me date myself some:


I also appreciate not having the starter button on the floor, gear selection behind a button on the dash and changing the oil meaning the air filter, too. And kids, if you don't understand, look it up!

The world has changed a bit since you were campaigning your Hudson.

But reading further ... are you suggesting we hold every race at a single track like back in "your" day?

The dirt track boys do it and seem to like it just fine.

:wink:

Mitch, that goes back a little futher.

Not At All. I am saying it is fantastic to have a choice of venues for a change. We had to deal with TWS or nothing. I am pleased with the opportunity to tow to sevral tracks in 4 hours or less.

What type of mood are you in? :lol:

[mitchntx]

Very moody ... plant outage started.

I get to work 7 days a week, each day beginning at 2am ...

But the response was tongue in cheek. I know you never campaigned a Hudson. It was a Studebaker.

[gt40]

I also appreciate not having the starter button on the floor, gear selection behind a button on the dash and changing the oil meaning the air filter, too. And kids, if you don't understand, look it up!Err...

I can appreciate not having to:

- crank the engine by hand
- fill the acetyline generator with carbide before driving at night
- rap an ignition coil by hand when I get a misfire
- adjust the engine's timing by hand

But going back to our original discussion, variety is a Good Thing. the more tracks, the better, but in al fairness, an effort needs to be made to keep the schedule evenly distributed geographically.

(And who knows? Perhaps an effort was made but the tracks simply couldn't accomodate us -- none of us were involved in that process, were we?)

[GlennCMC70]

word is the schedule wasnt worked on till the week after Nationals @ its earliest. reason NASA TX lost a MSR-C date. some NASA TX racers were asked by track personnel just after Nationals as to why NASA wasnt racing there for '07 cause they hadnt confirmed their dates. i guess they finally did, just not quick enough.
i'm happy about EC and a new track. i just didnt want to give up a MSR-C date to get it. they should have given up the MSR-H 3rd event to do it.
since every other organization has bailed on MSR-H due to cost reasons, there was plenty of dates for NASA TX to pick from. probably the only reason we got the 6 weekends we have. had NASA TX planned 7 events, there would probably be a 4th MSR-H weekend on the schedule.
i think w/ EC now nearing completion, MSR-H will take even a bigger hit.
just my .02. look for this track to fail as they keep raising their rental costs as the market saturation is about to take a 33% increase in the next year.

just a list of tracks again.
MSR-C
TWS
MSR-H
Hallett - this track draws from Colorodo and other states. guys i know are (or were) planning to race w/ us in '07.
NPR
all tracks NASA TX has used in the past.

others comming or has potiential use:
EC
Racers Ranch (terrell?)
Cabinasis Air Base (spelled wrong - in know)
theres another place near Texas City getting renovated, cant think of the name.

[jeffburch]

Dang RK,
thats back in the day when a mechanic rode along during the race.

jb

[AI#97]

Can someone dig up an old speak and spell to be given to Glenn at the awards banquet?!!! :wink:

[AllZWay]

the problem w/ the dirt track example is a circle is a circle is a circle.


- Glenn "no circle racing" Landrum :wink:

Hey now....that is not so true. Even the same track is different every week and every time on the track within the same night.... and especially each track itself is way different.

BTW.. I really missed going in circles this year. :(

[GlennCMC70]

Can someone dig up an old speak and spell to be given to Glenn at the awards banquet?!!! :wink:

all that and i only had 2. come on, it's getting better.

[marshall_mosty]

...thats back in the day when a mechanic rode along during the race.

Or run the fuel pump primer...

[David Love AI27]

since every other organization has bailed on MSR-H due to cost reasons, there was plenty of dates for NASA TX to pick from. probably the only reason we got the 6 weekends we have. had NASA TX planned 7 events, there would probably be a 4th MSR-H weekend on the schedule.
i think w/ EC now nearing completion, MSR-H will take even a bigger hit.
just my .02. look for this track to fail as they keep raising their rental costs as the market saturation is about to take a 33% increase in the next year.

SCCA has proposed to spend $50K and build a permanent structure at MSR - H... and in return lower rates... but then again SCCA has a large group of volunteer workers...

[gt40]

Dang RK,
thats back in the day when a mechanic rode along during the race.

jbYep -- I'm older than I look.

Seriously -- Dad owns seven of those things. I learned to wrench on a 1911 Model T.

Don;t think I could get one into AIV, though. :(

[oz98cobra]

..... theres another place near Texas City getting renovated, cant think of the name.

That track is Grandsport Speedway - there have apparently just finished paving the new 1.4 mile track to replace the temporary 1 miler laid over the old airbase concrete, and it will be operating before the end of this year. Another 1.? mile section is scheduled to be built next year, and they will be able to run both of there as a single track eventually.

[micah]

so with glenn's list of tracks in 2010 we should have 9-10 tracks to chose from. Run each track once a year for a 9-10 event schudule plus nationals with no drops. start in feb. run till nov. sounds like nascar.

[jeffburch]

http://www.nasarockymountain.com/nasa_forums/showthread.php?t=333

jb

[AI#97]

http://www.nasarockymountain.com/nasa_forums/showthread.php?t=333

jb

Wonder how much power we would be down at their altitudes....? did they retune for more dense air at hallet?

Depending on what happens in my situation, I might tow back up to hallet in May for a Comma Event....

[jeffburch]

There is a discussion on that exact point in there somewheres.

jb