4th gen wheel question

[Steffeazy]

The car's needing new tires which makes this a perfect opportunity to go with new wheels. I have a feeling that I will be upgrading the brakes sooner or later, so I might as well buy 17" wheels now.

Just looking for input from everyone's experience on what the best route is to take. The way I see it, I essentially have 3 options.

1. OE Z06 wheels: I love the look of the Z06 wheels, but I'm not too excited about having to buy a staggered set and look for another pair of front wheels.

2. OE SS Wheels: Easiest and least expensive to find. Not a true 9.5" wide wheel, but does that really matter?

3. Aftermarket wheels: Economical and easy to procure (for obvious reasons). I'm sure they don't have the same quality as OE wheels, but can they be used in racing. Does anyone have any experience with these wheels surviving the racetrack (including agricultural racing)?

I'm leaning to the OE SS wheels now. I think I'd feel better with an OE wheel, but I'd like a spare set to put track only tires on and I'm not sure what direction to take.

Thanks for the help.

[Pranav]

The car's needing new tires which makes this a perfect opportunity to go with new wheels. I have a feeling that I will be upgrading the brakes sooner or later, so I might as well buy 17" wheels now.

Just looking for input from everyone's experience on what the best route is to take. The way I see it, I essentially have 3 options.

1. OE Z06 wheels: I love the look of the Z06 wheels, but I'm not too excited about having to buy a staggered set and look for another pair of front wheels.

2. OE SS Wheels: Easiest and least expensive to find. Not a true 9.5" wide wheel, but does that really matter?

3. Aftermarket wheels: Economical and easy to procure (for obvious reasons). I'm sure they don't have the same quality as OE wheels, but can they be used in racing. Does anyone have any experience with these wheels surviving the racetrack (including agricultural racing)?

I'm leaning to the OE SS wheels now. I think I'd feel better with an OE wheel, but I'd like a spare set to put track only tires on and I'm not sure what direction to take.

Thanks for the help.

The only things you're going to find for the f-body that's worthwhile are 1 and 2.

I agree #2 is a hassle, but I've been able to procure one set so far and will plan to eventually procure a 2nd set by the end of the year. Whether the weight differential and the extra half inch is worth it, is up to you. I've run with 3 sets of 17*9 SS wheels for three seasons now and have no reason to believe that they've held me back in anyway, but I'm taking the opportunity to swap each set out for Z06 wheels as they pop up on the market locally while I burn off tires on the SS wheels.

That being said I should have a set of 17*9 SS wheels for sale by the TWS event in mid october if you're interested. Asking $300. At worst you can "retire" them for rain tire use in the future if you end up building up a collection of z06 wheels like I am at the moment.

[BryanL]

Need to clarify there is a difference between OE Wheels and OEM. I don't recommend the OE wheels-they are heavier and I don't know if they are as strong as the factory original OEM wheels. Get a set of used OEM 17" wheel whether the 10 Spoke SS or the 5 spoke ZR1 style. You can find sets of 17.5x9 Z06 wheels but they are going to be about double the cost. They aren't going to make much of a difference other than looks for you.

[Pranav]

Need to clarify there is a difference between OE Wheels and OEM. I don't recommend the OE wheels-they are heavier and I don't know if they are as strong as the factory original OEM wheels. Get a set of used OEM 17" wheel whether the 10 Spoke SS or the 5 spoke ZR1 style. You can find sets of 17.5x9 Z06 wheels but they are going to be about double the cost. They aren't going to make much of a difference other than looks for you.

Yeah to echo what Brian said, avoid the "OE wheels" or other aftermarket re-po wheels if you can. Half the time the sellers don't know what they have so as them to look for the GM stamp on the front/back.

[Steffeazy]

I guess I knew the answer all along. I'll just keep my eye out for some OEM wheels.


That being said I should have a set of 17*9 SS wheels for sale by the TWS event in mid october if you're interested. Asking $300. At worst you can "retire" them for rain tire use in the future if you end up building up a collection of z06 wheels like I am at the moment.

Definitely interested. Let me know if you decide to sell them.

[Steffeazy]

Well... A set of Z06 wheels popped up on Craigslist with nearly new tires. I figured this is the best set up for me now since I am still daily driving the Z.

I'm still interested/ looking for SS wheels to put track tires on. I like the idea of running the same rubber as you guys for track days.

1684

[Supercharged111]

I've got a pic at home showing the difference between RA1s on SS wheels and RRs on Z06 wheels. The difference was surprising. I chalked it up to tires per someone's input on here, but I later found an RA1 on a Z06 wheel and could see no difference between that and the RR. Can't say if it's worth a hill of beans from a handling perspective, but the difference was there.

[Fair]

Why are used OEM wheels and cheap knock-offs of the same styles the only options in AI and CMC racing? Aluminum wheels are a wear item, and after a certain number of cycles, seasons, or curb hit they have to be retired.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Projects/Red-2001-BMW-E46/i-K63HZR9/0/M/DSC_4499-M.jpg

There are better options that don't weigh 29 pounds like the knock-off OEM wheels...

[dtanker65]

What do you have for the S197 Terry? I need to retire some OEM wheels and I am trying to figure the best wheel choice moving forward for extreme use. Enkei seems to be the preferred wheel for amateur racing. $125 to true a bent wheel is a factor in my planning and has me considering investing in forged wheels.

[drecords]

Here's the 2016 Rules on wheels. 7.31 Wheels/Tires
7.31.1 Wheels may be of any construction or material,must be 16 or 17 inch diameter, and must not be
wider than 9.5 inches.
7.31.2 16 inch wheels must weigh 16.0lbs or more. 17 inch wheels must weigh 18.0lbs or more. One piece
aluminum spacers welded to the wheel will be included in the total wheel weight. Detachable balancing
weights will not be included in the total wheel weight..
7.31.3 Maximum tire size is 275/40R17 for all cars. The Toyo Proxes RR and Toyo Proxes RA1 are the
only tires allowed.
7.31.4 Wheel spacers are allowed and wheels may have any offset.

I think most now run 17's, curious what you have in that weight range?

For reference I've currently got 3 sets of MB Competition wheels (look like SSR Competition knock offs) that are over the minimum weight at 21lbs but have been strong and easy on the wallet.

[Pranav]

Yeah no one here really runs the cheap knockoffs.

17*9 Camaro SS wheels can be had for 200-300/set; z06 fronts about $100 more/set if you can find em.

I take comfort knowing if I bend/crack a wheel that replacements are out there and available. I've bought four sets of SS wheels for my car and have lost 3 individual wheels in the past with offs and hits, zero fucks given.

[JJKJ]

I found one good option for an aftermarket wheel. I run TSW wheels. I have two different models; two sets of Interlagos and one set of Nurburgring. TSW advertises these wheels as rotary forged (much like Forgestars) so they're light and so far have held up well. These wheels are popular track wheels for other platforms. They are the correct bolt pattern but you have to run spacers as the center hub won't fit over the rear axle stub. The other downside is they're only 9" wide, but on the upside the Interlagos are just over min weight at 18.5lbs. Nurburgrings are about 1lb heavier. They're available at DT and when I bought multiple sets I was able to get the price down to $200/wheel (normal price is about $250). I tried finding Z06 wheels at the time but kept missing the good deals, but so far very happy with the TSWs.

[BryanL]

Terry-how would one tell that a wheel has used up it's life? I run only factory GM wheels which like has been said are close to the minimum weight, plentiful at a good price, but I also haven't seen any issue with people using them. Sure in an off or a wreck a wheel can be damaged but other than that I haven't seen any failures? I feel better about using the factory wheels for durability than an aftermarket set? I agree on not using the knockoffs or any chromed wheel.

Last set of tires Discount put on they said my wheels needed to be replaced because the chrome had some flakes on the inside of the rim and they might be 10 years old.

Rob have you seen anything on this?

[RichardP]

how would one tell that a wheel has used up it's life?

You basically can't tell until there are signs of cracking. The problem is, most people don't look closely enough or often enough at their wheels to find cracks before they become a serious issue.

I have fatigued four sets of wheels: A set of three piece 4-lug wheels (that I bought used from Fair), a set of two piece welded Centerline wheels, and two sets of Konig Villians. So far, I've caught the failures before there was a problem on track. We run the Z06 wheels on the CMC cars. Those are pretty durable wheels but there was an AI f-body in California that was wiped out when one of those wheels failed on the rear. I run the the Enkei rpf1 on my car. I've heard of people with fatigue cracks on them but I've never seen it in person or in pictures.

I've attached pictures of some typical fatigue cracks that people should be looking out for.

Richard P.

[RichardP]

In case anyone needs a little more prodding to inspect your wheels, the goal is to catch them before they look like this:


Richard P.

[BryanL]

This is great info Richard and Terry-thanks. From one of my mentors, Mitch Warren, I learned to wash and inspect my wheels after every event but I need to do a better job of inspecting. I washed all my wheels a few weeks ago but it was dark by the time I was putting them up. Good pics of the closeups to see what to look for. I seem to recall some discussion about the car in Cali on the Z06 wheels but would like to confirm if they were chromed or not.

[Supercharged111]

That's an illegally lightened wheel.

[marshall_mosty]

Michael has found some cracks in his MB weapons on the rim lip...

[DAlgozine]

double post

[DAlgozine]

You basically can't tell until there are signs of cracking. The problem is, most people don't look closely enough or often enough at their wheels to find cracks before they become a serious issue.

I have fatigued four sets of wheels: A set of three piece 4-lug wheels (that I bought used from Fair), a set of two piece welded Centerline wheels, and two sets of Konig Villians. So far, I've caught the failures before there was a problem on track. We run the Z06 wheels on the CMC cars. Those are pretty durable wheels but there was an AI f-body in California that was wiped out when one of those wheels failed on the rear. I run the the Enkei rpf1 on my car. I've heard of people with fatigue cracks on them but I've never seen it in person or in pictures.

I've attached pictures of some typical fatigue cracks that people should be looking out for.





Richard P.

It was an aftermarket wheel, not an OEM and not a race wheel.
http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.p...c=14181&st=140
Starts on post #149 and more info on post #170 .

[Fair]

Terry-how would one tell that a wheel has used up it's life? I run only factory GM wheels which like has been said are close to the minimum weight, plentiful at a good price, but I also haven't seen any issue with people using them. Sure in an off or a wreck a wheel can be damaged but other than that I haven't seen any failures? I feel better about using the factory wheels for durability than an aftermarket set? I agree on not using the knockoffs or any chromed wheel.

Last set of tires Discount put on they said my wheels needed to be replaced because the chrome had some flakes on the inside of the rim and they might be 10 years old.

Rob have you seen anything on this?

edit: OK so the default settings for this forum are to NOT show inline images, signatures, etc. fixed! Is it just me or is the IMAGE button / UBB code broken on this forum???? I have trouble posting...

https://photos.smugmug.com/Projects/Red-2001-BMW-E46/i-tR8MJf8/0/M/DSC_4453-M.jpg

Like RichardP said, there isn't a good way to know when a wheel is "used up" until you start to see cracks. Every set of race wheels should be removed, washed (see above), and inspected between every event. Also repeat this after any session with a significant off or curb contact. LOOK FOR CRACKS ON THE INSIDE OF SPOKES.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Projects/Mark-Councils-C5/i-C5DXGv5/0/M/IMG_3553-M.jpg
Either of these brands of wheel cleaners are F'n magic. The Code Red costs about half as much

The "total wheel failure" stories you see on the interwebs, which happen with any and all wheel brands, are very nearly 100% the fault of the driver, who neglected to inspect their wheels after either many years of use or a big off or crash. In every case of a "failed" wheel I have ever inspected there were clear signs of old fatigue cracks and long term propagation, with the discoloration of corrosion in the base aluminum at the original fracture.

Also, when you have your tires swapped on the wheels ask the tire store guy to check the wheel for run out on the balancer, with the tire removed. More than .050" is visible, and that is a pretty noticeable amount. But even stock wheels often have .030" or more.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Projects/Red-2001-BMW-E46/i-rJkGTJN/0/M/P7A_8188-a-M.jpg

The fact that some racers will run a 275mm wide tire on a little 9" wide wheel pains me to the core! :eek: I cannot over-emphasize how important wheel width is, and I always caution racers to run at the wider end of the "recommended wheel width range" for their tire (check the TireRack spec lists), or at the least the class width max if that is smaller.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Projects/Red-2001-BMW-E46/i-xWXpq6w/0/M/IMG_2007-M.jpg

I run a 245/40/17 Hoosier R7 on a 17x10" wheel on my TT BMW E46 (see above) only because Forgestar doesn't make a 17x10.5" wheel. Tire wear is exceptional and after 7 race weekends the tire started eeking through the tread rubber, evenly across the tread. For that class the wheel width is unrestricted, and streatching a narrower tire onto a big rim is an old trick we use. We're building a set of 17x9.5" F14s for a Scion FR-S my wife is running in TT/Optima next year, so I'll weigh those and post that up here soon.

As for the AICMCTexas forum, I will try to check in here more often, now that I have my (default) forum settings working better. We might have an AI car under construction here soon and I always have build threads for all of our shop cars. And of course I'll clutter up my posts with too many pictures. :)

Cheers,

[Supercharged111]

When you say curb contact, does that refer to intentional curb hopping or the kind of contact that would leave a rash?

[mach1]

When you say curb contact, does that refer to intentional curb hopping or the kind of contact that would leave a rash?

I'd say curb hopping

http://i.imgur.com/qFrE6hnl.jpg

[mach1]

Great video here of failed forgestar F14's, watch the whole thing, all the wheels were cracking so I'm sure he could have caught it if he inspected them as Terry suggested.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtYjujhW27Q