Texas 2017 Schedule

[Pranav]

It is finally up:

https://nasatx.com/schedule/

January 28 -29 – Season Opener – MSR Houston

March 11-12 – March Madness – MSR Cresson

April 21 -23 – Spring Fling – Texas World Speedway

May 26 -28 – Memorial Madness – Circuit of the Americas

June 24 -25 – Summer Shootout – Hallett

September 23 -24 – September Showdown – MSR Houston

October 27 -29 – Fall Fling – Texas World Speedway

[ShadowBolt]

It is finally up:

https://nasatx.com/schedule/

January 28 -29 – Season Opener – MSR Houston

March 11-12 – March Madness – MSR Cresson

April 21 -23 – Spring Fling – Texas World Speedway

May 26 -28 – Memorial Madness – Circuit of the Americas

June 24 -25 – Summer Shootout – Hallett

September 23 -24 – September Showdown – MSR Houston

October 27 -29 – Fall Fling – Texas World Speedway


I'm very proud of Will for getting the COTA deal done! Even with COTA on the schedule and two dates at TWS we still have to go to MSRH two times? Oh well I can still run six race weekends (my normal number of races per year) and skip MSRH in September.


JJ

[marshall_mosty]

Awesome schedule!! COTA will be one for the history books. We just need to be careful to not hit anything owned by COTA because they WILL send you a bill...

[dtanker65]

Excellent schedule! COTA is a really cool experience for drivers and spectators alike. My family joined me there for an Edge Addicts track day, they really enjoyed the F1 treatment and having the run of the paddock and garages. Marshall is right about doing damage though, the course is pretty safe with good escape areas, but it is a F1 course.

[marshall_mosty]

I've only run 4-5 laps in a Cars-V when a few of us went out for a Cadillac "V-Lab" day. Lots of fun!!

[JMR81]

I'm not always one of Will's biggest fans, but I'm glad to see he has accomplished getting the schedule out early. I'll hold off on my enthusiasm for COTA until We get a chance to see the final details. I don't imagine it will be inexpensive, but it could also be included in a list of bucket list tracks which would make the cost worthwhile if it's on your list. Hopefully it will attract folks from other regions and we have a large field with great racing. It's definitely a big boy track that changes its rythm and flow in several places. It's not a place you want to be if you don't have 100% confidence in your car. I would definitely reccomend if you haven't driven the track, that if you get an opportunity to spend a day out there in your car take it. Best part of the schedule is our longest drive is only 2:30 min to Austin.

[Pranav]

Who all runs out there? I only know of Edge Addicts and their $500+ for 5 sessions.

[AllZWay]

I need to rent a car for COTA. That would be cool.

Very nice that NASA was finally able to get a date there.

[JMR81]

Who all runs out there? I only know of Edge Addicts and their $500+ for 5 sessions.

By far the best bang for the buck is Chin motorsports. Think we had 4 30 min sessions with a 1 hour session for all run groups at the end of the day. They limit the number of run groups and offer a one or two day option. We were there in September and it was only 2 groups all experienced drivers. One of the better run events. We have done 4 or 5 different events at different tracks and always had a great time.

[ShadowBolt]

Best part of the schedule is our longest drive is only 2:30 min to Austin.

Hallett from Austin in less 2.5 hours?

JJ

[marshall_mosty]

Hallett from Austin in less 2.5 hours?

JJ
Because everyone HAS to run Hallett.

[JMR81]

Hallett from Austin in less 2.5 hours?

JJ

As great as Hallett is it's not in our plans this year

[dtanker65]

Tam, you guys have quite a bit of experience at COTA and your recommendations on how to approach this track are spot on. How would you set up the race schedule? The track is too long for our normal recon lap and four 20 minute races. There was also some discontent with the point system for the Hallett champ race this year. As a mechanic/driver I tend to get tunnel vision most race weekends, you get a better big picture view than I do.

[Suck fumes]

not sure that you can really get around the recon lap. Only makes sense to wave the flag on the front straight. Might go faster if we didnt have to deal with standing starts and people getting run over if their car stalls.

[Alien]

Smart thing to do would be just run the short course for the recon lap. No point going all the way to the top end and down the back straight other than wasting time.

[dtanker65]

I was thinking to drop the inverts and run two long races straight up. Qual sets the field for Saturday and finishing position Saturday determines starting order for Sunday. It takes about 2:30 to get around one lap.
A 20-25 minute race with a full out lap won't be much of a race since the clock starts when we leave the grid.

I am not sure about the start. Standing starts would waste a little time, but rolling starts would make for a very fast scrum into T1. Maybe standing Saturday and rolling Sunday?

[ShadowBolt]

Maybe running with another group and letting us have four 30-35 minute races.


JJ

[Fbody383]

Maybe running with another group and letting us have four 30-35 minute races. I'm probably running with the Class of '17 graduation ceremonies...

[Alien]

Have the school hold graduation in the Amphitheater. Problem solved.

[marshall_mosty]

When I talked to Will while COTA was being finalized, he indicated that due to the size of the track, we would most likely combine run groups. With that being said, rolling starts would be the fastest way around.

Now if we could get 3-4 pace cars to run the short course on the formation lap...

I'll talk to Will about that.

[ShadowBolt]

When I talked to Will while COTA was being finalized, he indicated that due to the size of the track, we would most likely combine run groups. With that being said, rolling starts would be the fastest way around.

Now if we could get 3-4 pace cars to run the short course on the formation lap...

I'll talk to Will about that.

With two green flags at different locations two run groups on that track should not be a big deal and should get us more track time per race.

JJ

[marshall_mosty]

Guys,
Let me take all that back and discuss with swill.

[JMR81]

Tam, you guys have quite a bit of experience at COTA and your recommendations on how to approach this track are spot on. How would you set up the race schedule? The track is too long for our normal recon lap and four 20 minute races. There was also some discontent with the point system for the Hallett champ race this year. As a mechanic/driver I tend to get tunnel vision most race weekends, you get a better big picture view than I do.

This is a big event we should treat it as one.

First off Chin Motorsports has an event tentatively scheduled for April 1-2. IMHO they probably put on the best track day events and at a place like COTA they may limit it to experienced drivers only, which means 2 run groups and more track time. Several of our guys work with them. Plus they attract some very cool cars that you won't likely see else where.

There are plenty of good ideas floating around.

My own thoght on the event. For us its all about the racing,this will probably be a more expensive event that we usually have so I want to see the time spent racing maximized. No offense to the HPDE guys but maybe they should be excused from this event.

Running to many groups together can have a a impact on your race. If you do run multiple groups together make sure they are compatible and they are gridded separately, Nothing worse than qualifying well then having another group inserted between you and the pole sitter in your group

Think the 15 min warm up for each group would be a waste of time due to the track length, so maybe one all groups warmup lasting maybe 30 min. Your not going to learn the track in 15 min.

Qualifying maybe 3 laps out lap, hot lap, in lap. with the next group ready to go as soon as the last car enters pit lane or earlier. I do like Dennis idea of gridding based on finishing position and not qualifying on Sunday, use that time for warmup or hardship laps if you have problems on Saturday

Recon lap should only include the short course as should the cool down lap.That could be managed by a couple of extra people .

Pace car is great idea as long as they are competent and know what their doing and were not forming up coming out of turn 11.The ones at WGI were awful. Maybe release the field as the last car of the previous group exits turn 12.

Rolling starts only, why waste more time.

Race length, It's starts at the drop of the flag and ends with the checker. Ive never been a fan of our little 20 min races that include out and in laps. I like a 45 min race each day counting for contigency. Make it a real race that actually is a race.

Somebody will complain it's to hot or my car won't run that far. It's 6 months away time to get to work . Drag the car out of the trailer make it look good and go out and start testing. you would be suprised at how much better and quicker you will be. I promise that we will.

Will and his team should be commended for making this happen and it should be a special event. Hopefully this will attract competettors from all over the country and can become a show case event for NASA Texas. Could even lead to the Nationals being held here if we all do a good job

[ShadowBolt]

I for obvious reasons do not like 45 minute races unless there are four of them. Three races per weekend is not good for two drivers. World Challenge and others run several different run groups at the same time and while it's not perfect I will trade those issues for longer races. If they started one group on the back side of the track at least when you caught them or vice versa the cars should be scattered by then.


JJ

[dtanker65]

COTA is a big deal! Will has brought a national caliber event into the region and it is up to the directors to manage it properly. With my most profound and humble respect, structuring an entire event around one team driven car, or eliminating HPDE revenues are un-realistic expectations.

[ShadowBolt]

COTA is a big deal! Will has brought a national caliber event into the region and it is up to the directors to manage it properly. With my most profound and humble respect, structuring an entire event around one team driven car, or eliminating HPDE revenues are un-realistic expectations.

I can assure you nothing will be done with respect to COTA that is due to the "one team driven car".

JJ

[Trublu]

I was at the recent SVRA nationals which had modern Trans am as support race. TA pitted and gridded from the bottom paddock at entered track at turn 12. Building on that we could grid there and take the green at the normal place. No time lost or wasted with out/in laps. I'd prefer our races hold our traditional format although I'd support a Hallet format for COTA.

[ShadowBolt]

I was at the recent SVRA nationals which had modern Trans am as support race. TA pitted and gridded from the bottom paddock at entered track at turn 12. Building on that we could grid there and take the green at the normal place. No time lost or wasted with out/in laps. I'd prefer our races hold our traditional format although I'd support a Hallet format for COTA.

That makes two of us but I have no issue running with another group to get longer races.

JJ

[MikeP99Z]

JJ -

Another option may be to have one driver run in CMC and the other in ST4 (see new ST rules). I think it's unlikely that we will have 4 races at COTA. It may be 3. The schedule is not even close to being discussed at the moment. There are other logistics being worked out including grid area, in/out laps etc. Until we have a better idea of how/where certain things sort out we can't even take a stab at the schedule. Maximizing race time is the goal.

Regarding the mixed group comments - yes, Thunder will have other cars on the track with AI/CMC, and they will split starts. SU or PT cars are the most likely. It will depend on actual entries per class, and we will need to balance things out. Plan on 50-60 cars on track per race group. They may have 75 SM cars alone in Cyclone.

This event is going to be huge, and pricey. I believe this is the most expensive track to rent in the country.

[BADVENM]

I have no idea what the cost will be but a quick google search showed track prices from around the country. By far and if true COTA is #1 for cost at $50,000 per day for a weekend.

http://blog.motorsportreg.com/global-race-track-rental-fees#.WDim4U02yJA

[Supercharged111]

Aaron ran there with SCCA a year or so ago, he could offer some perspective here. I'm also curious what his terminal velocity was.

[marshall_mosty]

Aaron ran there with SCCA a year or so ago, he could offer some perspective here. I'm also curious what his terminal velocity was.

I'm expecting to ring everything out of the car in 5th on the back straight... might even sit on the 6,300 RPM limiter (hopefully not for long)

[ShadowBolt]

JJ -

Another option may be to have one driver run in CMC and the other in ST4 (see new ST rules). I think it's unlikely that we will have 4 races at COTA. It may be 3. The schedule is not even close to being discussed at the moment. There are other logistics being worked out including grid area, in/out laps etc. Until we have a better idea of how/where certain things sort out we can't even take a stab at the schedule. Maximizing race time is the goal.

Regarding the mixed group comments - yes, Thunder will have other cars on the track with AI/CMC, and they will split starts. SU or PT cars are the most likely. It will depend on actual entries per class, and we will need to balance things out. Plan on 50-60 cars on track per race group. They may have 75 SM cars alone in Cyclone.

This event is going to be huge, and pricey. I believe this is the most expensive track to rent in the country.

Quick question Mike. If we are going to run with other groups why would there not be time for four half hour (at least) races? If you have time for two races one day.......or are you saying one two races per weekend?
With the expected cost to run this track I can't see paying for running CMC and ST4.
JJ

[MikeP99Z]

I'm trying to keep 4 races. I just can't guarantee that at the moment. With the projected number of cars, TT may be split and HPDE 3/4 may get split. So, I lose 2 hrs and 40 minutes in the schedule (essentially). We may have 3 race groups, or 4 race groups. If 4, then there goes another 1 hr and 20 minutes. There's only so much time in the day.

[ShadowBolt]

I'm trying to keep 4 races. I just can't guarantee that at the moment. With the projected number of cars, TT may be split and HPDE 3/4 may get split. So, I lose 2 hrs and 40 minutes in the schedule (essentially). We may have 3 race groups, or 4 race groups. If 4, then there goes another 1 hr and 20 minutes. There's only so much time in the day.

I need help Mike. I don't understand unless you are saying extra run groups of HPDE and TT will take away racers track time. If we combine race groups how would we have less time for the races than normal? Or will HPDE and TT having huge numbers be the only way we can run COTA due to the cost?

JJ

[MikeP99Z]

Not getting into details for information that is unknown - I'd be flat out guessing at this point. Basically, right now on each day for a normal event each group has 75-80 minutes of track time per day. That won't change, just how it's allocated may change. We're not planning on "taking away" time, but certain restrictions and parameters may alter this. We are still collecting information, working on logistics, and will be evaluating multiple scenarios.

There are no "combined" race groups, please dismiss that theory. There are resorting of classes within race groups to balance on-track car count. There will still be Thunder, Cyclone, and Blitz. We don't know if there will be a Lightning yet. I can't have 1 group with 30 cars and another sold out with 60 or 70, and people on a waiting list. AI/CMC will not be alone.

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm not speculating any further on COTA right now. It won't be a "normal" event, so plan on something different which isn't going to make every individual happy, but keeps the entire event population satisfied.

[ShadowBolt]

Thanks Mike. We certainly trust you to be fair whatever you guys come up with.



JJ

[Suck fumes]

just give us the heads up of exact time and day when reg will open. SCCA event sold out with 650 competitors and a waiting list within 15 min after reg opened. And no I'm not kidding.

[ShadowBolt]

just give us the heads up of exact time and day when reg will open. SCCA event sold out with 650 competitors and a waiting list within 15 min after reg opened. And no I'm not kidding.


I agree with Aaron. Surely the Texas region should get first dibs. Is NASA nation wide even close to the number of members that the SCCA has? Of course I guess we could have a ton of SCCA guys signing up with NASA just for this event.
JJ

[Suck fumes]

scca is running cota in March too. In case you want practice.

[MikeP99Z]

just give us the heads up of exact time and day when reg will open. SCCA event sold out with 650 competitors and a waiting list within 15 min after reg opened. And no I'm not kidding.

I'll see what I can do.

[marshall_mosty]

I'll see what I can do.
I'm also checking with Will.

[Rob Liebbe]

Awesome schedule!!! I most likely won't make COTA - son graduating high school - but I REALLY want to.

Thanks to all who work so hard to make this hobby within NASA-Texas so very enjoyable. Especially my fiends in AI/CMC!!!!!!

[marshall_mosty]

From Will


Sell out events give priority to:

1) date of registration
2) folks who support the most NASA Texas events
3) people in the championship hunt.

This is a common thing I've managed for the Laguna seca event. So it's really just going to come down to guys registering as soon as they can.

The plan that was communicated to people was there would be a supplement posted with all the event info including the registration "open" date. I plan to have this out this week.

[dtanker65]

Gents,
Trevor says to register now if you are interested in attending the Edge Addicts event at COTA March 17-18. Sign up for the white group (fast) even if you haven't been there before.

[ShadowBolt]

Gents,
Trevor says to register now if you are interested in attending the Edge Addicts event at COTA March 17-18. Sign up for the white group (fast) even if you haven't been there before.

I was hoping to do an event there with Chin. I see they want $540 per driver. I have never understood this since only one of us can drive at a time. I sent an email to ask if we could split time in the car.

JJ

[mach1]

Registration is open for MSRH at a cool $379, 23% increase in price in 2 years, looks like we should budget for $500/weekend by 2020. I wonder if this increase will help with the COTA pricing.

[ShadowBolt]

Registration is open for MSRH at a cool $379, 23% increase in price in 2 years, looks like we should budget for $500/weekend by 2020. I wonder if this increase will help with the COTA pricing.

WOW! That is a lot for two years. Almost $400.00 for MSRH! Then I'm betting a grand minimum for COTA.

JJ

[BryanL]

I saw an email from NASA last night. Not sure what it means that HPDE 3 & 4 are getting their own run group but hoping it doesn't take away track time.....

[mach1]

I saw an email from NASA last night. Not sure what it means that HPDE 3 & 4 are getting their own run group but hoping it doesn't take away track time.....

Doesn't appear to take any away.

https://nasatx.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Jan-2017-MSRH_Schedule.pdf

[marshall_mosty]

All,
If you look at NASA TX over the past decade, the entry fee increases have been kept to a bare minimum. When I started racing with NASA 13 years ago, entry fees were $275 per weekend. Over the past 12 seasons, to get to $379 entries, that's only about 2.5% per year... What we haven't seen is very many years of escalations and Will is just trying to re-baseline for what hasn't been done in the past years.

There is a BUNCH that goes into paying for a weekend:
1. Track Rental
2. Insurance
3. Emergency Workers
4. Paying non-comped workers (Timing & Scoring, Driver Info, Tech)
5. Catering for Saturday night (food and two kegs of beer)
6. 20+ hotel rooms for the workers
7. Round trip airfare for workers flying in from out of state
8. Rental cars for those flying in

I'm sure that everyone would agree that the service and atmosphere today is lightyears ahead of the pre-Balangit era when we barely had registration, no Saturday night party (food/drinks), etc.

I spent a fair bit of time on the phone with Will today to understand the scale of running an event. NASA and SCCA provide similar $$/track time experience but I'm sure that the NASA group would be much more tight knit than the A-Sedan crowd..

[GlennCMC70]

2005 - entry was $225 if I recall correctly.

[MikeP99Z]

Track rental fees keep increasing every year. And some tracks are raising rates faster than others. Ambulance services and insurance are also always on the rise. I believe Will is also adding a second ambulance service to each event. If the ambulance is offsite, we can't race.

[dtanker65]

I am very happy to be racing here. The competition level has increased every season I've been here, enjoy it and don't sweat the small stuff. A second med crew sounds good to me, if you have a chance to buy the medics lunch... do so. They are very special people who are every bit as focused on their mission as we are about racing. Just my .02

[Suck fumes]

avg price for cota for any org for a whole weekend is $950

[ShadowBolt]

I am very happy to be racing here. The competition level has increased every season I've been here, enjoy it and don't sweat the small stuff. A second med crew sounds good to me, if you have a chance to buy the medics lunch... do so. They are very special people who are every bit as focused on their mission as we are about racing. Just my .02

One week after MSRC. I doubt I can pull that off so I guess the Friday prior will have to do.


JJ

[mach1]

All,
If you look at NASA TX over the past decade, the entry fee increases have been kept to a bare minimum. When I started racing with NASA 13 years ago, entry fees were $275 per weekend. Over the past 12 seasons, to get to $379 entries, that's only about 2.5% per year... What we haven't seen is very many years of escalations and Will is just trying to re-baseline for what hasn't been done in the past years.

There is a BUNCH that goes into paying for a weekend:
1. Track Rental
2. Insurance
3. Emergency Workers
4. Paying non-comped workers (Timing & Scoring, Driver Info, Tech)
5. Catering for Saturday night (food and two kegs of beer)
6. 20+ hotel rooms for the workers
7. Round trip airfare for workers flying in from out of state
8. Rental cars for those flying in

I'm sure that everyone would agree that the service and atmosphere today is lightyears ahead of the pre-Balangit era when we barely had registration, no Saturday night party (food/drinks), etc.

I spent a fair bit of time on the phone with Will today to understand the scale of running an event. NASA and SCCA provide similar $$/track time experience but I'm sure that the NASA group would be much more tight knit than the A-Sedan crowd..

Marshall, thanks for taking the time to write that out, this kind of transparency and communication is fantastic and greatly appreciated by everyone here.