Snoozing?

[RichardP]

This forum is a bit dead. What's going on???

First, the points spreadsheet has been updated after NOLA but the drops haven't been calculated in. So, we technically don't know who won (well, anybody that cares does) and the top finishers can't claim Toyo bucks yet. The bigger news is that no one seems to care (not just our group). When I was in charge of points for our group, I was hammered if I didn't have them out the day after the event...

Next, the 2018 AI, AIX, SI rules are out. This used to be a really big deal...

The CMC rules aren't out yet. There is probably a big holdup trying to figure out what to put on the cover. It's usually the previous year's national champion...

In other news, a Camaro DOMINATED the final race at NOLA in CMC. Every session, every lap, every race had a Camaro on top. Mustangs didn't even podium or collect a single Toyo buck... Congratulations to Kent for his first win?


At least Corey Rueth, one of our former CMC/SI racers is still having fun "driving": https://jalopnik.com/how-to-kill-a-jeep-using-mostly-two-wheels-1820220739


Any thoughts on a banquet or just a group party???

Hoping for more excitement in 2018...


Richard P.

[Pranav]

I've been busy. Got my rear end out of the car for new r&p after i randomly broke a ring tooth at some point in September.

Getting it all back together this weekend for TDE next weekend.

[Pranav]

Let's do caffe capri again?

[drecords]

I've been busy changing another engine, will be in for a banquet or party. Hope to drive more and wrench less in 2018 or I'll be selling and moving to something different

Also trying to make the same event as Pranav next weekend.

[Al Fernandez]

Yeah interesting how much quieter things are lately. CMC rules were submitted on time, not sure why they're not published yet.

[BryanL]

CMC rules are so stable there isn't as much to discuss. I don't race AI or plan to so that is a non event. I don't race for points so another non event for me. I have 5 sports teams and cheer starting this weekend with kids so doubt I would make a banquet unless its in my area.

That being said I still love racing, this group, and plan to keep racing when it doesn't interfere too much with family life. On the bright side my 7 year old is now into cars so maybe I can follow in Jerry's footsteps in 6-7 years. He associates Miata's with cars that you can start racing at 13.

Congrats Kent-but even though a Mustang didn't collect a single Toyo buck neither did a Camaro.

Daniel-I haven't pulled an eng/trans/rearend since I got my license about 10 years ago. If you want a podium car in your color with little wrenching get in touch with me.

[Suck fumes]

so did the 4.6L get an intake plenum and throttle body?

[Supercharged111]

I've been busy changing another engine, will be in for a banquet or party. Hope to drive more and wrench less in 2018 or I'll be selling and moving to something different

Also trying to make the same event as Pranav next weekend.

I've had the same LT Juan for 3 seasons now. Could move to a Chebby.

[39PitCrew]

That being said I still love racing, this group, and plan to keep racing when it doesn't interfere too much with family life. On the bright side my 7 year old is now into cars so maybe I can follow in Jerry's footsteps in 6-7 years. He associates Miata's with cars that you can start racing at 13.



I know where you can get a 2001 Miata for pretty cheap.

[mach1]

I know where you can get a 2001 Miata for pretty cheap.
I just got a 2000 a few hours ago, nice.

[t500hps]

so did the 4.6L get an intake plenum and throttle body?

http://cmc.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=4769

[mach1]

Just spent 5k on a stock Miata engine, it was 2k difference for 2-3hp, crazy. I was planning on posting the build here, anyone interested?

[Suck fumes]

that 2-3hp is what wins races! Welcome to SM! Expect to redo the cyl head twice a yr if you want to keep up on the straights. Haldeman building the motor for you?

[mach1]

that 2-3hp is what wins races! Welcome to SM! Expect to redo the cyl head twice a yr if you want to keep up on the straights. Haldeman building the motor for you?

Drago, Chris wasn't very responsive.

I'm ok with it, my "all in" is showing to be less than CMC, 128whp here I come!

[Sook]

Just spent 5k on a stock Miata engine, it was 2k difference for 2-3hp, crazy. I was planning on posting the build here, anyone interested?

Always interested in a good build thread

- Josh

[drecords]

Yes please!!!

[BryanL]

I know little about SM so build thread would be interesting. So is $5k for an engine just a stock one and not with 2-3 extra hp? I thought a podium engine might be more than $5k from what I have heard. I also get the emotional attachment. I remember the drive home from Cresson the day after my black camaro was totaled and for some reason I was emotional.

Congrats Josh

[RichardP]

Just spent 5k on a stock Miata engine, it was 2k difference for 2-3hp, crazy. I was planning on posting the build here, anyone interested?

Spending $2k for 2-3 hp is really dumb. You are supposed to spend 12K for 4-5 hp. Just kidding. I think. I'm not sure if I'm kidding???

The rear wheel dyno procedure has lots of flaws, but it is way better than the alternative...


Richard P.

[Suck fumes]

Drago was charging $7k for a pro motor so I'm assuming the $5k was for a non blue printed unit. 2-3hp is a car length down the straight and can lead to a win.

If you want a drago built car that can win the runoffs it will set u back $40k. And yes we are still talking about a miata.

[edrock96GT]

Not getting answers any where else. Can anyone shed light on why the minimum weight for AI was changed to 2900lbs?

[marshall_mosty]

Eddie,
Sorry for not getting back with you. I've been traveling a bunch for work...
The general consensus was we wanted to narrow the gap between the actual weights of current vs new cars. The S550's are coming across the scales in full race trim between 3600-3800lbs. The majority didn't want a 1,000 swing of car weight in a specific class.

[edrock96GT]

Well, that sucks. So, no clearly stated unfair advantage was being fixed, they're just trying to appease racers that were upset that some of us don't burn a set of tires in a weekend. The S550s are also putting down 400+ hp with less than $1000 worth of bolt-ons and tuning and require minimal suspension work to be competitive. The fact that they weight 3800lbs is the price they chose to pay.

I put a lot of work into trimming my car down to 2747lbs because less power usually equals a more reliable motor (and less tire wear). You all know how long it took me to finally meet my hp/weight and now I have to jump through this hoop.

I have a long, expensive road to fix my car, and I'm sorry to say it just got a little longer if I have to build it to the new rules.

I know NASA doesn't car about losing one driver so I'm sure this will never be addressed, but this may just keep me from returning to AI. I'm already on a limited income after I got hurt, but making the series even more expensive is definitely not encouraging me to spend it getting back on track.

[Suck fumes]

The new chassis/model of a car will always eventually rule every class one way or another and the older cars either get phased out by default or people give in to the newer cars. Been that way since I can't remember when.

[ShadowBolt]

The new chassis/model of a car will always eventually rule every class one way or another and the older cars either get phased out by default or people give in to the newer cars. Been that way since I can't remember when.


But a 80's Fox can still win in CMC. Over 30 years old.


JJ

[edrock96GT]

The new chassis/model of a car will always eventually rule every class one way or another and the older cars either get phased out by default or people give in to the newer cars. Been that way since I can't remember when.

But how many times have you seen a rule implemented with the sole purpose of crippling the older cars?

[Suck fumes]

look at spec miata. perfect example. anything prior to 1999 will not win the big races. An 80's fox may win the regional stuff but when is the last time a fox won the BIG race? I should have worded it in the sense that the guys who travel and go to all the national events will not build older cars they build the new stuff. So NASA caters to those big spenders as does scca so they can grow and attract new people. I don't always agree with it either just the way it's always been.

[edrock96GT]

That still doesn't answer my question.

Also. Attracting new people is fine, but doing it by implementing rules that are only intended to appease them while alienating your existing members seems counterproductive.

[Suck fumes]

i'm in agreement with you not arguing. Just saying what I have witnessed over the last 15yrs.

[marshall_mosty]

Eddie,
Let me see what we can do. I honestly didn't think you were already below 2900.

[BryanL]

The 3rd gen AI guy in the last nasa speed news was in the 2,700's, too. I say in Texas let Rock run at the lightweight as long as he is in line with the power to weight ratio-but then he might want to race in the Nats race at Cota. I know AI has catered to the newer mustangs for awhile but feel bad for you Rock.

Well CMC gets another nod for not having a ruleset that changes much and doesn't have the issue of new cars entering the class anymore.

Good info. on SM to keep me in CMC. Too bad Spec E46 doesn't limit the amount people can spend to keep it well under $15 to $20k for a new build like CMC.

[RichardP]

I've crossed the scales at less than 2900 in my car a couple of times. It's trivial for me to ballast up to be legal. It's not realistic for me to "tweak" my engine to get to the power needed to be competitive at 2900. I would need to spend some serious money to make my car appreciably lighter or have enough power.

Marshall didn't say it, but I would guess AJ Hartman going all carbon fiber on his turbo 6 car was starting to scare some people on a direction the class could go.

I get the idea that a lighter car will be cheaper to run because of less tire wear. Realistically, with the current tires heat cycling out so bad, I think that ship has sailed.

Rule changes often hurt/help different groups of people. I don't really see how this weight change will add any racers but I see how it could drop a few.

If a non-Ford replacement engine was legal, I would have done that a while ago and raced a bit more. Tire costs scare me more these days. I've chosen to have fun running my car in non-racing events. I finished up my car last night and put it on the trailer for this weekend. The weather should be great...


Richard P.

[Pranav]

Well CMC gets another nod for not having a ruleset that changes much and doesn't have the issue of new cars entering the class anymore.

Good info. on SM to keep me in CMC. Too bad Spec E46 doesn't limit the amount people can spend to keep it well under $15 to $20k for a new build like CMC.

Not sure why you keep wanting to leave us Bryan. Just throw a 5.3 in that thing and call it a day.

[ShadowBolt]

Not sure why you keep wanting to leave us Bryan. Just throw a 5.3 in that thing and call it a day.

You don't understand Pranav, Bryan lives in Plano and slumming in a Chevy is kinda of low rent in that part of the world. Saying I race a BMW sounds better.

Just kidding BL. I have no idea why you like the E46 idea so much? Maybe reliability.

JJ

[marshall_mosty]

I’m 100% okay with gentlemen agreements for power/weight on a regional level with a semi-blind eye to our true class minimum.

[edrock96GT]

I’m 100% okay with gentlemen agreements for power/weight on a regional level with a semi-blind eye to our true class minimum.

I would be okay with this, I have no desire to attend nationals anyway. As long as everybody else is in agreement.

[Suck fumes]

Even with AJ's ecoboost setup he still got out torqued by the bigger V8 cars and didnt win when his boost level was legal.

[BryanL]

You don't understand Pranav, Bryan lives in Plano and slumming in a Chevy is kinda of low rent in that part of the world. Saying I race a BMW sounds better.

Just kidding BL. I have no idea why you like the E46 idea so much? Maybe reliability.

JJ

Don't need to swap a 5.3 for my 5.7.

I like the looks of the E46 better than an F-body but I like the lightweight, decent power, better handling, with spec parts potential. Just think they got it wrong allowing the max build cost to be so high. So I'll look for a clean daily driver E46 that is a candidate as a backup plan. Yes Jerry is a little right since I can jog to the local Bimmer dealership but that isn't any reason. However it's ability to run competitively with SCCA, BMW club, WRL, etc. is attractive. I have no clue about reliability but I don't think anything will be as reliable as what I have experienced with my two LS camaro's.

[mach1]

Good info. on SM to keep me in CMC. Too bad Spec E46 doesn't limit the amount people can spend to keep it well under $15 to $20k for a new build like CMC.

I'm going to have 20k in the SM, I had over 30k in the CMC Mustang.
The shocks for SM are $100 each, no MM parts required for the car, etc.
Pro built SM trans is $1200, I had 2700 in my Tremec on the mustang.
No BBK for SM, good calipers are $500 for the set of 4.

Motor is pricy on SM but everything else is very reasonable.

[AI#97]

Even with AJ's ecoboost setup he still got out torqued by the bigger V8 cars and didnt win when his boost level was legal.

Yeah, but a 3800# car compared to a 2700# car on the same 275/18 tire is just pure physics. Has NOTHING to do with heat cycles. The lighter car will destroy the bigger one in the corners and under braking especially with suspension and aero being wide open in AI. Frankly, the S197 is the car at the major disadvantage if they are going to let the S550 in. In all honesty, the fox chassis cars SHOULD get the lower minimum weights to keep them interested in the series as viable competitive cars. They trying to maintain parity across 3.5 generations of mustangs, 2 generations of camaros AND GTO's and Challengers (granted rare) purely all based on HP/WT when all use the same 275 wide control tire is amateur at best. Given some of the "OTHER than a mustang" chassis require so much to develop, why WOULD anyone develop them if they have no path to have an advantage? IF AI rules committee truly wanted to grow the series, they would get creative and offer some bones to get the other chassis interested but it seems they are just content to be lazy and be "spec mustang" along the lines of whatever Ford Racing is going to push down the line or phase out for $.60 on the dollar. It's the reason why SMART racers will go buy a C5 Vette for $9k and build a WAY faster car or go buy a tube frame car for $20k because building a Pony car for road racing for $70-130k is just moronic.....and yeah, I learned that the hard way.

Something you haven't taken into consideration about AJ's car is he has shit shocks/struts and typically is running on the oldest tires on the planet. If he would/could spend like the rest of of the field and have even better stuff under the car, I think his car would start to shine. I REALLY wish he would have bought my Motons when I had them up for sale.