Coleman Brakes

[64GunPilot]

Is anyone here familiar with Coleman 2pc rotors and calipers? I never heard of them until i bought my car and this is what is installed. The rotors are 12.2” with wilwood hats. Just curious as to their longevity/durability. Folks here saying stoptech rotors last 4-5 seasons. Anyone have experience with Coleman brake components and how they compare to stoptech?

[ShadowBolt]

Is anyone here familiar with Coleman 2pc rotors and calipers? I never heard of them until i bought my car and this is what is installed. The rotors are 12.2” with wilwood hats. Just curious as to their longevity/durability. Folks here saying stoptech rotors last 4-5 seasons. Anyone have experience with Coleman brake components and how they compare to stoptech?

If I'm not mistaken Coleman sells several different rotors of different quality. When I had a Wilwood big brake set-up on my Lightning doing DE's (yeah I know stupid) I would go through a set of these rotors every other event. Of course the Lightning weighs over 5000lbs. I was getting them through Todd at TCE Performance.

JJ

[64GunPilot]

If I'm not mistaken Coleman sells several different rotors of different quality. When I had a Wilwood big brake set-up on my Lightning doing DE's (yeah I know stupid) I would go through a set of these rotors every other event. Of course the Lightning weighs over 5000lbs. I was getting them through Todd at TCE Performance.

JJ

Yea, I think the replacement rotors are only $85 per side. Hard to imagine they would be anywhere as durable as the higher cost items. Now my question is, how do you know when your rotors need replacing? What do they look like? Can someone post pictures of race scortched unserviceable rotors?

[39PitCrew]

Yea, I think the replacement rotors are only $85 per side. Hard to imagine they would be anywhere as durable as the higher cost items. Now my question is, how do you know when your rotors need replacing? What do they look like? Can someone post pictures of race scortched unserviceable rotors?

On #39 we usually knew it was time to replace due to the the loud "PLINK"
and the visible crack on the rotor face. But David just uses the stock
O'really parts.

[64GunPilot]

On #39 we usually knew it was time to replace due to the the loud "PLINK"
and the visible crack on the rotor face. But David just uses the stock
O'really parts.

Talking to Mike Plum (the previous owner) he said the rotors last about 1 season. Thats $175 per season for rotors. Economics seems good I think. Maybe not as good as $440 stoptech rotors that last 4 seasons. But still, good economics I think.

[Pranav]

The whole thing on rotors, if the hardware allows axial float, that's the way you go.

Wilwood rotors and entry level coleman rotors do not, which make them just as good as a regular one piece rotor in that they will crack fairly quickly because the rotor rings aren't being allowed to move when they change shape from high heat under braking.

This is why we love our 2 piece $$$ stoptechs; the rings last forever because they aren't stressed from being tied to a rotor hat that doesnt change shape. The stoptech kits cost a lot since they also come with $$$ calipers, but for Mustangs as we see with Records, you can get girodisc two piece true floating rotors that go with stock Ford calipers.

For GM i believe a stoptech/girodisc c5 floating rotor with stock c5 calipers would be a good option $ wise.

[64GunPilot]

The whole thing on rotors, if the hardware allows axial float, that's the way you go.

Wilwood rotors and entry level coleman rotors do not, which make them just as good as a regular one piece rotor in that they will crack fairly quickly because the rotor rings aren't being allowed to move when they change shape from high heat under braking.

This is why we love our 2 piece $$$ stoptechs; the rings last forever because they aren't stressed from being tied to a rotor hat that doesnt change shape. The stoptech kits cost a lot since they also come with $$$ calipers, but for Mustangs as we see with Records, you can get girodisc two piece true floating rotors that go with stock Ford calipers.

For GM i believe a stoptech/girodisc c5 floating rotor with stock c5 calipers would be a good option $ wise.


Thanks for the insight. I am asking a lot of questions now that will likely be answered with time around you guys at the track during the HPDE days next year. But appreciate the insight now. Ill put stoptechs in the 2021 budget lol.

[RichardP]

The whole thing on rotors, if the hardware allows axial float, that's the way you go.

Wilwood rotors and entry level coleman rotors do not, which make them just as good as a regular one piece rotor in that they will crack fairly quickly because the rotor rings aren't being allowed to move when they change shape from high heat under braking.

This is why we love our 2 piece $$$ stoptechs; the rings last forever because they aren't stressed from being tied to a rotor hat that doesnt change shape. The stoptech kits cost a lot since they also come with $$$ calipers, but for Mustangs as we see with Records, you can get girodisc two piece true floating rotors that go with stock Ford calipers.

For GM i believe a stoptech/girodisc c5 floating rotor with stock c5 calipers would be a good option $ wise.
Coleman has a bunch of rotor castings that can be machined to whatever is needed, including fixed rotor or floating rotor. I used their DV-30 rotors to create 12” diameter rotors that worked with PBR calipers to fit inside the stock 16”, 4-lug wheels on my Fox. This was a long time ago before there were so many brake options available and the Coleman setup worked great back then.
http://www.colemanracing.com/Brake-Rotor-900-1100-Directional-Vane-P3549.aspx

Coleman does have some standard brake rotor part numbers but those are just their regular castings machined to mate to common brake hat dimensions. Within given rotor dimensions, Coleman has lighter and heavier versions to choose from. Heavier is going to be more durable. Lighter is going to be higher performance until you stress them enough that they start to have issues.

As far as floating vs. fixed, I believe this has more to do with the type of caliper you run. If you have a floating caliper, you can get away better with a fixed rotor without experiencing pad knock back. A fixed caliper is going to need some amount of float in the rotor not to drive you crazy with a soft pedal. Floating rotors also help keep rotor coning down which results in a better pedal feel.

I believe rotor cracking has way more to do with material quality, heat treating, and just being oversized for the application more than it does with fixed or floating. Coleman offers stress relieving of their rotors as an option before they are machined to final shape. That wasn’t an option when I bought mine way back when so I don’t know how much it helps.

Rotor life is also affected by track layout, driving style, pad selection, tire grip, car weight, etc.

Richard P.

[Pranav]

Coleman has a bunch of rotor castings that can be machined to whatever is needed, including fixed rotor or floating rotor. I used their DV-30 rotors to create 12” diameter rotors that worked with PBR calipers to fit inside the stock 16”, 4-lug wheels on my Fox. This was a long time ago before there were so many brake options available and the Coleman setup worked great back then.
http://www.colemanracing.com/Brake-Rotor-900-1100-Directional-Vane-P3549.aspx

Coleman does have some standard brake rotor part numbers but those are just their regular castings machined to mate to common brake hat dimensions. Within given rotor dimensions, Coleman has lighter and heavier versions to choose from. Heavier is going to be more durable. Lighter is going to be higher performance until you stress them enough that they start to have issues.

As far as floating vs. fixed, I believe this has more to do with the type of caliper you run. If you have a floating caliper, you can get away better with a fixed rotor without experiencing pad knock back. A fixed caliper is going to need some amount of float in the rotor not to drive you crazy with a soft pedal. Floating rotors also help keep rotor coning down which results in a better pedal feel.

I believe rotor cracking has way more to do with material quality, heat treating, and just being oversized for the application more than it does with fixed or floating. Coleman offers stress relieving of their rotors as an option before they are machined to final shape. That wasn’t an option when I bought mine way back when so I don’t know how much it helps.

Rotor life is also affected by track layout, driving style, pad selection, tire grip, car weight, etc.

Richard P.

Interesting; I asked them how much it would cost to make a set of true floaters for the camaro rear; it was a lot :(

[Pranav]

Thanks for the insight. I am asking a lot of questions now that will likely be answered with time around you guys at the track during the HPDE days next year. But appreciate the insight now. Ill put stoptechs in the 2021 budget lol.

Always good to ask questions; I annoyed the sh** out of everyone for the better part of a year building my car.

[Supercharged111]

The whole thing on rotors, if the hardware allows axial float, that's the way you go.

Wilwood rotors and entry level coleman rotors do not, which make them just as good as a regular one piece rotor in that they will crack fairly quickly because the rotor rings aren't being allowed to move when they change shape from high heat under braking.

This is why we love our 2 piece $$$ stoptechs; the rings last forever because they aren't stressed from being tied to a rotor hat that doesnt change shape. The stoptech kits cost a lot since they also come with $$$ calipers, but for Mustangs as we see with Records, you can get girodisc two piece true floating rotors that go with stock Ford calipers.

For GM i believe a stoptech/girodisc c5 floating rotor with stock c5 calipers would be a good option $ wise.

Pump the brakes (see what I did there?). I thought stock rotors weren't compatible with Stoptech calipers on a 4th gen? Of course if I ever wrap up my distractions I can get around to fitting it all up to a spare knuckle to see it with my own eyes.

[Pranav]

Huh?

No I was referring to stock replacement Girodisc/stoptech rotors for mustang and c5 applications

Use those rotors with stock calipers as applicable is what I meant

No stoptech calipers I know of would drop onto stock rotors.

[Supercharged111]

Huh?

No I was referring to stock replacement Girodisc/stoptech rotors for mustang and c5 applications

Use those rotors with stock calipers as applicable is what I meant

No stoptech calipers I know of would drop onto stock rotors.

Derr, I misspoke. I have C5 brakes now so not stock. Getting stock C5 stuff confused with 4th gen CMC spec Stoptech stuff I think.

[64GunPilot]

Coleman has a bunch of rotor castings that can be machined to whatever is needed, including fixed rotor or floating rotor. I used their DV-30 rotors to create 12” diameter rotors that worked with PBR calipers to fit inside the stock 16”, 4-lug wheels on my Fox. This was a long time ago before there were so many brake options available and the Coleman setup worked great back then.
http://www.colemanracing.com/Brake-Rotor-900-1100-Directional-Vane-P3549.aspx


Coleman does have some standard brake rotor part numbers but those are just their regular castings machined to mate to common brake hat dimensions. Within given rotor dimensions, Coleman has lighter and heavier versions to choose from. Heavier is going to be more durable. Lighter is going to be higher performance until you stress them enough that they start to have issues.

As far as floating vs. fixed, I believe this has more to do with the type of caliper you run. If you have a floating caliper, you can get away better with a fixed rotor without experiencing pad knock back. A fixed caliper is going to need some amount of float in the rotor not to drive you crazy with a soft pedal. Floating rotors also help keep rotor coning down which results in a better pedal feel.

I believe rotor cracking has way more to do with material quality, heat treating, and just being oversized for the application more than it does with fixed or floating. Coleman offers stress relieving of their rotors as an option before they are machined to final shape. That wasn’t an option when I bought mine way back when so I don’t know how much it helps.

Rotor life is also affected by track layout, driving style, pad selection, tire grip, car weight, etc.

Richard P.


http://www.colemanracing.com/Brake-Rotor-8-Bolt-7-Directional-Vane-P4670.aspx 24837 and 24838 are the rotors ill be running since thats whats on the car. A little thicker probably heavier and cheaper than the ones you were talking about. Well see how well they last. The calipers are http://www.colemanracing.com/Caliper-4-Piston-Series-III-P4509.aspx 560-100

Looking at trying to make April 5-7 at Eagles Canyon for HPDE 1. Will give the car a good shakedown and start getting some seat time.

Excited. Flying to Texas today to grab the Excursion and drive to Bakersfield CA to pickup and take possession of the new race car. Will post pictures of the handshake later.

Dylan

[Al Fernandez]

That’s a standard asphalt circle track rotor, same as on my car. Works great with CMC cars.

[AI#97]

Huh?

No I was referring to stock replacement Girodisc/stoptech rotors for mustang and c5 applications

Use those rotors with stock calipers as applicable is what I meant

No stoptech calipers I know of would drop onto stock rotors.

The C5 rotor offset is very shallow and makes running 4 piston calipers difficult with the typical OEM wheels used in CMC....and making it under the track width max. Ask me how I know. C4 HD rotors however are just fine with tons of offset...just a lot fewer 2pc options out there.

as for the rears and knockback. I am going to try and figure out a way to put mustang cobra rear calipers on the camaro this offseason. 95% of camaro knockback is coming from the rear. If the mustang calipers don't have enough "thickness" for pads and the camaro rear rotor I plan on finding a "wider" rear caliper with twisting in pistons and creating a hybrid flange bracket to make it work while I am installing new axles.


Hell, I just built a 4th gen, 4 piston, radial mount front kit for under $900 and made 8 hours at CoTA on about 1/8" of pad wear and the rotors are $38ea availabe at rock auto or amazon. Just isn't CMC legal on track width with 10 spokes. will be trying other wheels in our inventory shortly.