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MikeP99Z
10-31-2006, 10:52 PM
From NASCAR.com today


ep.384.jpg
Texas World Speedway hosted eight NASCAR races between 1969 and 1981. Credit: Texas World Speedway
Enduring Performance: 1980 NASCAR 400
By Mark Aumann, NASCAR.COM
October 31, 2006
02:46 PM EST (19:46 GMT)

There are seven speedways in the United States that measure at least two miles in length. Six of those are currently active on the NASCAR circuit.

The seventh -- Texas World Speedway in College Station -- hosted a total of eight NASCAR races before operations were suspended in 1989.

Results
NASCAR 400 at
Texas World Speedway
Pos. Driver Make
1. Cale Yarborough Chevrolet
2. Richard Petty Chevrolet
3. Bobby Allison Ford
4. Darrell Waltrip Chevrolet
5. Terry Labonte Chevrolet
• Complete results, click here

Before California Speedway, TWS was Michigan's sister track, as both facilities were built and operated by Larry LoPatin. With 22 degrees of banking in the corners, TWS was slightly faster than MIS -- and that was never more evident than in the 1980 NASCAR 400.

Cale Yarborough's pole-winning speed at Texas was 170.709 mph, compared to the 162.693 achieved by Buddy Baker in winning the pole at Michigan two months later.

Yarborough used the 90-degree heat to his advantage, as the competition couldn't keep pace. Benny Parsons, who led 30 laps from his front-row starting position, retired with overheating issues. In all, six of the 31 starters had mechanical issues directly related to the scorching weather.

Yarborough's only problem came when his No. 11 Chevrolet ran out of gas early on, handing the lead to Darrell Waltrip. However, Waltrip was passed by Dale Earnhardt, who led for 54 laps before overheating problems forced him to drop back.

That put Yarborough back in front on Lap 136 -- and he would pull away to lap the field as the race was run without a caution flag.

The average speed of the race -- 159.046 mph -- was a track record, but only 14,500 fans braved the heat and humidity to witness the race first-hand.

Richard Petty -- in a No. 43 Chevrolet -- finished one lap off the pace in second. Petty remains the only driver to win multiple races at TWS, with three wins between 1971 and 1973. In addition, he's one of five drivers to have competed in all eight NASCAR races at College Station.

Bobby Allison, who would led more than 100 laps at TWS but never win there, drove his No. 15 Ford to a third-place finish, one lap behind. Allison posted six top-10s at TWS, second only to Petty's seven.

Waltrip and Texan Terry Labonte completed the top five. It would be Labonte's second consecutive top-five finish at TWS.

Despite some exciting racing, the track never caught on with fans, as none of the races generated crowds of more than 25,000. The final NASCAR race at TWS was won by Benny Parsons in 1981

At one time, the track was the site of the world's closed course speed record, when Mario Andretti was clocked at 214.158 mph in 1973. That record was broken 12 years later.

TWS is still in business, hosting regional sports car events and driving schools.

Mike Bell
11-01-2006, 06:49 AM
Cool stuff - although I'm headed up to TMS this weekend for my NASCAR fix. Go Mark Martin! :lol:

CMC17
11-01-2006, 08:04 AM
Great info! I wish they had some video from those races to see the cars in action around TWS. :cry:

Rob Liebbe
11-01-2006, 08:45 AM
I found this photo in the Ford archives when I worked there....or was Texas International Speedway the one that was in Denton?

If this doesn't work, somebody help me out.

GlennCMC70
11-01-2006, 09:04 AM
i'll be @ TMS Mike. i'll be "working". :wink:

AllZWay
11-01-2006, 09:07 AM
Cool stuff - although I'm headed up to TMS this weekend for my NASCAR fix. Go Mark Martin! :lol:

I'll be headed over there on Friday and camping all weekend with some friends.

Go Tony Stewart!!

jeffburch
11-01-2006, 09:13 AM
Me and Bev have press passes and infield parking.
Will do trucks only.
Any are welcome to use for NBS and NNC (Sat/Sun).

jb

Mike Bell
11-01-2006, 09:29 AM
Cool stuff - although I'm headed up to TMS this weekend for my NASCAR fix. Go Mark Martin! :lol:

I'll be headed over there on Friday and camping all weekend with some friends.

Go Tony Stewart!!

James,

We're up in the motorhome section between T1 and T2 OUTSIDE of the track. Where you gonna be camping?

Glenn,

Where u working at?

gt40
11-01-2006, 09:29 AM
I found this photo in the Ford archives when I worked there....or was Texas International Speedway the one that was in Denton?I'm pretty sure TIS was between Denton and Lewisville, on the East side of I-35.

GlennCMC70
11-01-2006, 09:37 AM
i work for Nextel. i set-up the temp cell sites in and around the track. i have to be @ the track sunday before the race starts so i'll already be on track by the end of the race so we can start teardown @ about 10pm.

when will your motorhome be there? i'll be there some today.

we hang out @ the motorhome over by the big TMS sign off I-35 we are the only motorhome parked there, and we are next to a big trailer marked w/ NEXTEL and Nextel Cup graphics.

Mike Bell
11-01-2006, 09:47 AM
I'm in the Workhorse Custom Chassis VIP Camping area, spots 143 and 144. Here's a map link, the Blue Area between Labonte Lane, Allison Ave. and Hwy. 114:

http://www.texasmotorspeedway.com/downloads/TMSmap021006high.pdf

We plan on arriving Friday about noon-ish.

GlennCMC70
11-01-2006, 10:06 AM
we put a Cell site On Wheels (COW) in that lot just north of the entrance to that lot. i'll see ya this weekend.

Mike Bell
11-01-2006, 10:08 AM
we put a Cell site On Wheels (COW) in that lot just north of the entrance to that lot. i'll see ya this weekend.

Great, come on by and have a beer!


Don't be mad, but, uh, err, well, we use Verizon.................. :lol:

Tex89
11-01-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm in the Workhorse Custom Chassis VIP Camping area, spots 143 and 144. Here's a map link, the Blue Area between Labonte Lane, Allison Ave. and Hwy. 114:

http://www.texasmotorspeedway.com/downloads/TMSmap021006high.pdf

We plan on arriving Friday about noon-ish.

Hey Mike,

Your staying in the lot named after my brothers company. I have an article on him & his company but I can't figure a way to attach the PDF file.

Mike Bell
11-01-2006, 11:13 AM
David,

Just email it to me! Sounds pretty cool, we've been in that lot for the last 5 years. mike dot bell at bns-racing dot com

Mike Bell
11-01-2006, 11:55 AM
The late Marty Robbins at TWS in 1973.

jeffburch
11-01-2006, 12:45 PM
I have a shoe box in the attic somewhere with fotos of Kevin Schwantz racin there in '86.

jb

AllZWay
11-01-2006, 05:27 PM
[quote="AllZWay"][quote=Mike Bell]James,

We're up in the motorhome section between T1 and T2 OUTSIDE of the track. Where you gonna be camping?



We are camped directly behind the Albertson's Grocery Store that is setup behind the back stretch in the reserved camping area.

We are in the second spot on your left on that main road into the reserved camping area.

If you get out on your bike and ride that way... call me 903-517-6312

AllZWay
11-02-2006, 02:27 PM
Hey Mike.... I was looking at the schedule and noticed that the Legends cars are racing again at the little track behind the back stretch again this weekend at 6:00 pm on Saturday night.

If you get the chance to you should go over and watch. We had a blast watching them in the spring.... It was much like watching a Saturday night dirt track race that included lots of carnage, unfriendly hand gestures and even a near fight or two......and that was among the teenage drivers. :lol:

Oh...and it is free or least it was in the spring.

Mike Bell
11-02-2006, 02:38 PM
James,

We'll be there for the Legends and Bandoleros. I'll try and give you a call on your cell to coordinate it! I agree, it's a blast to watch.

AllZWay
11-02-2006, 02:59 PM
James,

We'll be there for the Legends and Bandoleros. I'll try and give you a call on your cell to coordinate it! I agree, it's a blast to watch.

Coool... We had a great time watching.

Tex89
11-02-2006, 05:02 PM
from the 1971 Texas 500 From Texas World Speedway Petty-Baker finished 1-2

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/1971TWSlineup.jpg

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/1971_baker_pits_texas_500.jpg



The Goodyear guy takes a look at the Tires from pit wall. It was 95 degrees 140 on the track.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/1971TWSpitstop.jpg


The picture below is from the Lone Star 500 victory circle 1972 at the old Texas World Speedway in College Station with Richard Petty driving the 1972 Dodge Charger. The new record books show Petty winning this race in the Plymouth but here is the proof. The old record books show him winning in the Dodge. The quality is poor because It is from an old vhs tape.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/petty72alamo500.jpg


The Petty Crew at Texas World Speedway.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/petty72texascrew.jpg

Another shot from the same race Just before the big win at Texas World Speedway..
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/Petty_1972_lone_star_500.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/petty72texasfall.jpg


Petty started furnishing and maintaining the Winston 1 race ready show car in 1972. The car wore the Plymouth body for only a short time. It was then switched to the Dodge Charger the picture below was its debut in Texas notice the wheels.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/winston1texas72.jpg

Mike Bell
11-02-2006, 05:20 PM
Great old photos David, where'd you get those at??

Tex89
11-02-2006, 05:34 PM
I was there...........................





No really, Form the net.

AllZWay
11-02-2006, 05:35 PM
Cool pictures.... It is kind of weird to look at TWS now and imagine it was once a big time venue.

Mike Bell
11-02-2006, 05:38 PM
I was there...........................





No really, Form the net.

I wanted to know WHERE ON THE NET? Was hoping there were more perhaps?

Tex89
11-02-2006, 05:46 PM
I was there...........................





No really, Form the net.

I wanted to know WHERE ON THE NET? Was hoping there were more perhaps?

www.mopardealer.com/petty.htm

CMC17
11-02-2006, 05:59 PM
I was there...........................





No really, Form the net.

I wanted to know WHERE ON THE NET? Was hoping there were more perhaps?

www.mopardealer.com/petty.htm

Cool! Thanks! I wish I could find someone with an old VHS tape of any NASCAR race at TWS.

cmarvel
11-02-2006, 06:08 PM
I know someone who taped the Trans Am race from 1991. I will see if he still has it.

Tex89
11-02-2006, 06:20 PM
Here is a Picture of Mike bell as a fuel guy for the Petty Team @ TWS. Check out the sunglasses, I think Mike still has that pair. :D

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/Fincik/OLD%20TWS/1971_buddy_baker_fuel_stop.jpg

Tex89
11-02-2006, 06:22 PM
Not Petty, but Buddy Bakers Team............

Mike Bell
11-02-2006, 06:36 PM
I'm pretty sure I've still got those pants!!!!!

CMC17
11-02-2006, 07:43 PM
For a second there, I thought the driver had a cigarette in his hand. D'oh!

jeffburch
11-02-2006, 08:15 PM
I remember not to long ago Neil Bonnet I believe it was firing up under a caution on an in car cam.

jb

David Love AI27
11-04-2006, 01:10 AM
I have a "Welcome Race Fans" banner from a Winston race at TWS in the late 70s and slept on the winner circle one night in 1978 when it was located between hot pits and the front straight. I also have a picture of Amber in a portable play pen outside of T10 when she was just a baby. I was there when AJ Foyt won a "Indy" car and "Stock" car race in one weekend (Twin 200), it was back in the USAC days. Some of my best memories were watching Can-Am races in the early 70's... don't get me started... LOL

David Love AI27
11-04-2006, 01:18 AM
too cute for CMC

David Love AI27
11-04-2006, 01:25 AM
I was there...........................





No really, Form the net.

I WAS there!!!!!!! not kidding!!!

gt40
11-05-2006, 12:15 AM
The late Marty Robbins at TWS in 1973.I thought that car looked familiar...

Racebrat
11-05-2006, 11:16 AM
TIS and TWS- Same tracks.
The one in Denton was Green Valley.

Like David- my dad was really there! Maybe one race we should all bring out our memorabilia and share our memories!

Tex89
11-06-2006, 11:24 AM
I think I have some Auto-X pics of me from Green Valley.

jeffburch
11-06-2006, 11:45 AM
I was checking out GreenValley on google earth recently.
I cross it to reach a friends house.
It's now a sub-division.

jb

Tex89
11-06-2006, 12:43 PM
I was checking out GreenValley on google earth recently.
I cross it to reach a friends house.
It's now a sub-division.

jb


That's the exact reason it closed down.

Rob Liebbe
11-08-2006, 08:26 PM
Green Valley wasn't in Denton, it was north of Watauga. My dad road raced there in the sixties and I drag raced there once at a Shelby event not long before it closed down. Correct me if I'm wrong but i'm 100% sure on this one.

TIS - between Lewisville and Denton on I-35

TWS - College Station

Green Valley - Watauga

WKRP - Cinncinati

jeffburch
11-08-2006, 08:55 PM
Colleyville actually.
Headed there now.

jb

Back from getting hoist from friend.
Correction, North Richland Hills, Tx.
Bursey and Smithfield is the nearest intersection.
From the latest goggle earth sat shot you can see where the strip was IIRC. If any care.
? They roadraced there?

marshall_mosty
11-08-2006, 10:37 PM
Texas World Speedway was built in 1969 and is one of only seven Super Speedways of two miles or greater in the U.S., the others being Indianapolis, Daytona, Pocono, Talledega, California, and Michigan. Thus, TWS is the only Super Speedway in the Southwest. It's replacement cost is about $30 million.

TWS is located on approximately 600 acres on Highway 6 south of College Station, Texas.

In addition to the two mile high banked oval, there is a 1.5 mile oval, a 1.8 mile road course, both within the two mile track, and a 1.9 mile high speed road course using turns three and four of the oval, and the newly paved 2.9 mile course. All of these tracks use the same straightaway in front of the grandstands. These racetracks were newly paved in 1991, supervision of which was done by Clarence Cagle, the "Master" of speedway paving. A new concrete outside crash wall and pit road wall were constructed at the same time. There is also a 3 mile grand prix road course. The two mile oval is "D" shaped with 22 degree banking on the turns, and 8 degree banking in the front of the grandstands.

TWS underwent additional re-construction in 1991 which included the addition of a new rest room and conession stand near the garage area, a new (third) garage building, numerous VIP suites along the pit road, in addition to five in the press box tower, and an air conditioned Speedway Club atop the grandstands. A new telephone system, public address system, and scoreboard lighting system were also installed.

The two mile high banked oval became known as "The Worlds Fastest Speedway" when Mario Andretti set a world closed course speed record of 214.158 mph on October 6, 1973 while qualifying for an Indy car race. That record stood in the Guinness Book of World Records for twelve years. Since then many Indy cars have tested at unofficial speeds of 238 mph. Over the years, TWS has been the site of numerous Indy car, stock car, motorcycle, truck, and sports car races including the TEXAS 500, LONE STAR 500, BUDWEISER/NASCAR 400, TEXAS GRAND PRIX, TEXAS RACE OF CHAMPIONS, TEXAS 200, ARCA/WINSTON WEST 500, the TEXAS WORLD GRAND PRIX, EXXON SUPERFLO 500, and other events sanctioned by United States Auto Club, NASCAR, ARCA, Sports Car Club of America, the American Motorcycle Association, WERA, IMSA, and other racing organizations.

TWS was purchased in 1976 by its present owner, Raceway Limited Partnership (formerly known as Texas Speedway Limited Partnership) who sold the property in 1991 and regained ownership in April, 1994. They have made numerous improvements to the facility since that time.

The infield area at TWS is larger than the size of the Astrodome and Texas Stadium placed side by side. Many race fans camp overnight in the infield area where there are two concession stand/rest room buildings and two seperate rest room buildings in addition to those near the garage area and pit road VIP Suites. Security fencing protects race fans from the track and surrounds the garage area and an infield emergency treatment center building. There are three garage buildings, one of which contains an air conditioned drivers lounge with rest rooms and an air conditioned room for the news media.

The infield area is reached by four vehicle tunnels, one car and one truck tunnel is located under the entrance of turn one of the speedway, and one car and one truck tunnel are located under turn four of the speedway. There is also a pedestrian tunnel located under the start/finish line of the front straightaway which connects the grandstand to the winners circle and the infield area. Since these are located under the race track, access to them is always available, even while a race is in progress.

An eight foot chain link fence with barbed wire serves as a security fence and surrounds the race track. The main ticket gate is located on the highway/parking area (west) side of a large earth embankment on which a roadway serves as a walking ramp to the top. Cars have access to the top via two paved roads over the north and south vehicle tunnels. At the top of the hill there are four concession stand/rest rooms, a 25,000 gallon water storage tank, and a multi purpose building with separate rooms for telephone and public address equipment, a first aid center, concessions and souvenir storage and disbursement. The grandstands are located on the east side of the earth embankment overlooking the race track. A large air conditioned building is located above the grandstands housing VIP Suites, and a press room on the second floor. Race control headquarters is located on the third floor. The first floor Speedway Club area holds approximately eight hundred forty race fans, and has its own buffet area, a bar, and rest rooms. There are also three viewing areas on the top of this building for the news media and for the placement of TV cameras. The grandstand is separated from the race track by a crash wall on top of which is a heavy wire fence strung with heavy cable to protect race fans. There are approximately 23,000 numbered reserved aluminum seats mounted on the concrete grandstands. Spectators enter the grandstand from the top and walk down stairs to their seats. Each seat has a view of the entire speedway, and has a seat back for spectator comfort. General admission seating for about 5000 spectators is located on the bottom row of the grandstands and on the earth embankment, north and south of the grandstands.Reserved seats are numbered twenty inches wide, which is wider than the normal 18 inches.

The main office building for the speedway is located on highway 6 at the north entrance. The speedway has a large billboard sign with lights located on highway 6 in front of the property between the north and south entrances. TWS is served by two water companies. Water for the office and race track is provided by the City of College Station. Water for out buildings on Peach Creek Cut-off Road is supplied by Wellborn Water Company. Two electric companies serve the property. The office and race track are served by entergy, and the out buildings are served by Bryan Utilities. The speedway has its own sewage treatment plant.

There is an elevated stage located in the infield next to a concession stand/rest room which has been used for night country western concerts, and around which such events as the Interplanetary Chili Championship and Texas World Open Chili and Bar B Q Championships have entertained overnight camping race fans.

An elevated platform atop the grandstands, complete with wheel chair ramp, provides handicap race fans with a spectactacular view of the race.

TWS has always been known as one of the safest race tracks in the country. In 1979, a NASCAR Gran d National (now Winston Cup) Stock Car race went 396 out of 400 miles before a yellow "caution" flag came out for two laps. The following year the race went all 400 miles without a yellow "caution" flag. Thus, in 800 miles of NASCAR racing there was only one two lap "caution" period.

The World Record for a Deisel Bob Tail Truck was set at TWS in April, 1981 by Charlie Baker at a speed of 132.6 mph.

A. J. Foyt has won more races at TWS than any other driver. He is the only race car driver to have won races in both an Indy Car and a Stock Car, and the only driver to have won races in both types of cars on the same day.

TWS originated the rule of not finishing a race under the yellow "caution" flag in the 1977 TEXAS RACE OF CHAMPIONS. The rule provides for two finishing green flag laps to be run following a yellow "caution" period so as to not deprive race fans of an exciting finish to a race. This rule was later adopted by the USAC Stock Car Division and later by several other racing sanctioning organizations.

The speedway race tracks are used by sports car, vintage car, motorcycle, and go-kart clubs for racing events, driver training, Indy and stock car tuning and testing, and TV commercials throughout the year on a rental basis. Ferrari introduced its new F-50 model at TWS, whch was featured in the January '96 issue of Autoweek, the June '96 issue of Motor Trend, and was featured on the Motor Trend TV show several times. The '97 Pontiac was at TWS for a feature article in Popular Mechanics magazine also. The Chevrolet Monte Carlo Nascar car was tested at TWS as were Firestone tires in preparation for their return to the Indy 500. Many race fans recognze TWS in TV commercials for Budweiser, Texaco, Mobil, among others. Jaguar, Honda, Pontiac, and Saturn are among those who have hosted their dealers for "Ride and Drives".

TWS has the best ingress and egress of any speedway in the United States since the construction of Highway 6 was completed in early 1996. There are presently eight lanes of divided highway with an interchange specifically provided for TWS so that entrance and exit to and from the speedway will be non stop in all directions at on race days. The recently opened by-pass of Hempstead and the improvements to Hwy 290 will soon allow non stop traffic to and from Houston. There are very few traffic lights to Dallas or Austin/San Antonio, making TWS very accessible to everyone.

mitchntx
11-08-2006, 10:49 PM
<snip>

TWS underwent additional re-construction in 1991 which included the addition of a new rest room and conession stand near the garage area, a new (third) garage building, numerous VIP suites along the pit road

<snip>

and regained ownership in April, 1994. They have made numerous improvements to the facility since that time.

<snip>

Many race fans camp overnight in the infield area where there are two concession stand/rest room buildings and two seperate rest room buildings in addition to those near the garage area and pit road VIP Suites.

<snip>

There are three garage buildings, one of which contains an air conditioned drivers lounge with rest rooms and an air conditioned room for the news media.

<snip>

There is an elevated stage located in the infield next to a concession stand/rest room which has been used

<snip>



Those little tid bits made me chuckle ...

jeffburch
11-08-2006, 11:03 PM
I remember after they built the new story on the press box, there were news stories about the whole thing being unstable.
Seems there was some concern about the added weight causing the whole thing giving way to gravity.
In the 80's when we ran bikes there the japanese bought it and renovated it. Before they repaved it there were cracks in the pavement on the bowl that the bike tires would fit in. The cracks were longitudinal in the surface. This is to say that they were with the grain of the track. At a buck 50 it was no fun. The cracks were though the weight of the asphalt was sliding down hill. The surface was tearing under the weight. Actually sliding down the embankment.
Then yen went to crap and they defaulted on the loan. Same as Rockefeller Center yadda yadda ya and half of Hawaii.

jb

Mike Bell
11-09-2006, 06:37 AM
The World's Fastest Automobile Race
Mike Hiss says that 220 mph isn't really that fast. Don't you believe him.

by Giles Tippette



IT WAS COLD AND DREARY and raining in College Station on the eve of the Texas Twin 200's at the Texas World Speedway. It didn't look like racing weather and it didn't feel like racing weather, but everyone was very determined and hopeful that the races could be run. The promoters had been beating the gong for months, publicizing the event. This was to be the first ever U.S. Automobile Club (USAC) Championship race with its Indianapolis-type cars in Texas. The track was being billed as the world's fastest and, indeed, some of the cars had been turning laps over 200 miles per hour in practice.

The greatest drivers in USAC racing were there: drivers like Mario Andretti, A.J. Foyt, the Unsers, Roger McCluskey and Lloyd Ruby. The real bigshots. Of course this didn't come as any surprise to anyone who knew anything about racing. There are only eleven races on the Championship tour and the drivers can be pretty well counted on to show up. For some reason they are not like pro golfers who get tired and have to take off a week every month or so. Perhaps golf is more demanding.

Texas World Speedway is fast because it's so highly banked. It's four degrees higher than the Michigan track, formerly the highest banked track on the circuit. The drivers don't like it at all. They won't always say this to be printed in the newspapers, but that's what they think. Mainly, they don't think it's a fit track for Champ cars. They believe the high banking makes it more suitable for stock cars. And the look of the track does give the impression that it's a poorly disguised compromise between the glamour draw of the occasional Champ car race and the bread and butter stocks that can be run almost any time. Before sanctioning, the USAC officials called it a course for stock cars. Afterwards, however, they began laboriously to paint a different picture, the main blue-sky being that it was the "fastest in the world." But, then, the officials didn't have to do any of the driving.

The day before a race there's not much to do. The qualifying had been the day before and the cars had been locked up, not to be started again until the day of the race. The rain and general dreary conditions only seemed to emphasize this restless lassitude. The drivers mostly stayed in their rooms with their wives or girlfriends. A few could be seen during the day in the hotel coffee shops and restaurants, where they studied the weather with great interest. The drivers had a lot on the line—the need to get in a race car and drive it just as fast as it would go. The reason for this need is something they could know, perhaps, but certainly wouldn't, or couldn't, articulate. But the race at Phoenix the previous week had been rained out and they were all very hungry to get the season started and to get a car out on the track in competition.

They had a shrimp boil and beer bust that night at the National Guard Armory for the drivers and the press. Very seldom do all the big name drivers come to these functions. Generally they pass the duty around among themselves. This night Bobby Unser had drawn the black bean and he was there, very friendly, very willing to talk to anyone who had anything to ask him. But it was a press occasion and he had on his public face and attitude. He answered, patiently and willingly, all the stock questions with the stock responses: yes, he was glad to be in Texas; yes, he liked the track; yes, it was fast; yes, his car was ready; no, he wasn't taking anything for granted and he'd be watching for Andretti and Foyt and the others. Occasionally, though, you'd catch him glancing at his watch with a drawn, anxious look on his face as if he couldn't wait to get away and get by himself and think about the race to come. He'd won the pole position by virtue of a qualifying speed of 212.766 mph, three miles faster than Gary Bettenhausen who was on the outside of the first row.

All during that evening a Western string band cranked out the standard country hits, barely overriding the noise level from the conversation at the long tables piled with strongly aromatic shrimp. Mike Hiss, the USAC rookie-of-the-year for 1972, was at one of the tables with his wife and a few friends who had flown in with him from California. In a way, Hiss seemed out of place. He does not look like most of the drivers, the majority of whom have come out of garages and pit crews. Hiss didn't come up the small track, dirt track route. He'd been a road racer, driving the kind of cars associated with Graham Hill and Jackie Clark and other gentlemen of the track. Hiss is tall and thin with slim hands and a long-nosed, aristocratic face. He just misses being handsome. The USAC officials like to refer to him as the "glamour boy" of the circuit, mainly because he'd been a centerfold in Playgirl Magazine. He doesn't like to talk about that, however, and you quickly get the impression that he wishes he hadn't done it.

Hiss, at first, seems gentle and quiet, nothing like a man who runs those thunderbolts 200 miles per hour. But then you start talking racing and he erupts. "Like it? Like racing? Damn right I do. I love it. That's all I want to do. I mean, what else is there?"

I have asked a lot of drivers if they are scared, if they race in fear. None of them has ever said he was. With most of them I never believed it; but when Hiss said he wasn't scared, I believed him.

"Even over 200 miles per hour? That's awfully fast."

He just shrugged. "It doesn't seem that much faster, not when everyone is running about the same."

In the week before the race A. J. Foyt had been talking in the newspapers about the speeds becoming unsafe. All you can do, he'd said, is point the car and pray. USAC is going to have to do something, maybe change the rules. We're going too fast, he'd said.

But Hiss wasn't buying any of that. "That's Foyt," he'd commented. "Trying to psyche everyone out. He hopes everyone else will slow down. But you watch the race and see if he does. No, we're not having any of Mister Foyt's moves."

Hiss would be starting in last place. He'd been turning laps at 198 during practice, sufficient to move him well up in the starting grid. But, on his second qualifying lap, his car had jumped out of gear. When that happens the engine over revs and blows. So that was where he was, out of the race, until mechanical attrition began knocking other cars out. Finally they'd had to draw for a spot and Hiss had won it. That very night his crew had worked straight through putting in a new engine. Now he was happy, very happy, that he could run. "I'll suck those babies up" he said. "It'll be hard, but I'll pass four cars in the first lap."

It had stopped raining late that night when I ran into a young man I'd been looking for for two years. It was Tom Sneva, whom I'd met at the Phoenix race track when he was getting his first Champ car ride. He'd been a sprint car champion on the West Coast, but Champ car rides are hard to come by. Rollo Volstedt had given him his spare car to see if he could qualify it. Sneva had tried desperately, but the car was a sled and just wouldn't run up to speed. In the next season I'd watched eagerly for him in the newspapers, but there hadn't been a word. Now here he was, sitting tiredly over a glass of milk and a piece of pie at the Castle Lorna motel. For some reason I'd overlooked his name in the starting lineup. He'd qualified well, starting 17th in the field of 26. He was just now in his second Champ car. It was something of a coincidence that I'd been present, at such divergent points and times, both times he was running.

He said he'd been getting along all right. When no one would give him another chance, he'd gone back to the sprint cars. Finally, with time running out, a group in his home town of Sprague, Washington, had formed a syndicate and bought him a car. But it was still a very poor-boy operation. Sneva, his father and two other men had trailered the car down from Washington. He was not only the driver, he was also one of the mechanics, in contrast to the sponsored teams which had crews of 12 and more for each car. He was tired because they'd been working 24 hours straight trying to correct some oil leaks in the engine. "It's a real ratty engine," he said. "There's drivers out here wouldn't even use it for a practice engine."

But he was in the field, and he'd be running.

When I'd met him in Phoenix, Sneva had been a math teacher at the high school in his home town. He'd shown me, then, a telegram from his ninth grade class. It had said something about how they were pulling for him and they knew he could win. He put the telegram back in his pocket with a wistful look. "They don't understand" he said. "They've seen me win on the little dirt tracks and they think this is the same." He shook his head and laughed. "I hope they're not too disappointed. But they just don't understand the difference."

But it was different. Now he was in the race and he was no longer the math teacher. Now he was the principal of the high school. He frowned. "I don't know what I'm going to do about that. If we get the money, we're going to Indianapolis. I guess I'll have to quit the school and just race. It's a big chance, but . . ."

Race drivers live in an isolated world. They are so surrounded by a solid coterie of fans and hangers on that they seem to gain a distorted view of life and their own worth and the scheme and importance of all things. This is not their fault. They seldom live an ordinary life of home and family and everyday happenings. Their world is the road and travel and hotel rooms and coffee shops and race tracks and a constant exposure to the most adoring fans in the world. You can hardly be surprised if they regard themselves as being the center of the only world they know. A large bullfrog in a small pond thinks of himself as master of all he surveys. Never mind how poor his eyesight is.

In the garages, at the track, the mechanics were starting up the incredibly beautiful racing machines. They made a fulsome roar in the enclosed space, not as loud, because of the blowers, as they used to be, but still loud enough so that talking was difficult. Walter Cunningham, the astronaut, was standing around looking at Johnny Rutherford's machine. He asked vaguely, "Anyone seen Roger Penske?" No one answered him or paid the slightest attention. In the garages he was just another fan who happened to have enough pull to get into the inner sanctum.

They rolled the cars out onto the track about an hour before race time, lining them up in 13 rows of two cars each. In the 500-mile races there are 33 cars which form up in 11 rows of three each. The drivers had been called to a drivers' meeting in the lounge where the various officials would give them sundry instructions, all of which they'd heard a hundred times before. The meeting was not long. Mike Hiss came out and headed into a phone booth to call his wife back at the motel. I sat on a nearby railing, watching him laughing and talking into the phone. He struck me as having that one fundamental quality that all great drivers must have: the total absence of fear and the competitive urge that is sometimes called the killer instinct. When he got off the phone, I asked him what they'd said in the drivers' meeting. He shrugged: "Same old stuff."

"No particular instructions for this track?"

"No." He looked around. "Well, excuse me. I've got to go get something to eat and get dressed."

Not all the drivers eat before the race. I suspect it's not so much because of the old bullfighter fear of greeting an accident with a full stomach as it is nerves which rob them of their appetite.

The weather that Saturday was clear but cool. There was still dampness in the air, which meant the cars would run faster. Speed conditions were ideal. An adage in racing is that speed falls about a mile an hour for every five degrees above 80. That's why it's important to draw an early qualifying number; the later in the afternoon you make your run the slower you're probably going to go.

They did all the normal, silly formalities; introducing a wealth of people in a seemingly endless line. At times you wondered what these people had to do with racing, other than getting their name mentioned in front of a crowd of racing fans. The crowd stood it with good humor for a while, but, finally, began to catcall and yell for the race to start. Outside the track long lines of cars were still snaking over the muddy parking area. On the highway that led into the two narrow entrances to the track, cars were backed up for four and five miles in each direction. It seemed that, while the promoters had hoped for a large crowd, they weren't ready to handle one. Out in the infield a chartered bus was stuck in the deep mud. It rocked back and forth, roaring, while the PA kept up its endless drone and the drivers stood restlessly by their cars.

Champ car races are started with a running start. The cars circle the track until the starter feels they're lined up properly. Then he drops the green flag.

It took five laps to get a start. Gordon Johncock lost a wheel on the second lap, but he was able to drive back to his pits and get it replaced before the race started.

Bobby Unser was accelerating even before the flag dropped. It seemed as if he'd been able to anticipate the starter. He led the field, roaring loudly now down the straight in front of the main grandstand. Gary Bettenhausen, outside on the first row, tried valiantly to outgun Unser and take the lead coming off the first turn. But Unser was too quick. He carried Bettenhausen high as they raced into the first turn, slipped down into the groove, and pulled away, increasing his lead perceptibly. You could see, from the way he was handling the corners, that his car had been set up perfectly for the track.

When you speak of a car being tuned up or dialed in, you are speaking of the chassis. It is understood the $35-45,000 engines are in tune. A chassis is tuned by minute adjustments in the suspension and steering and other running gear. It is a slow and tedious process, involving hours in the garage and on the track. A car is tuned both for the style of the driver and for the particular track. But it goes even further than that. Since each corner is run differently, the crew will work to achieve the best balance they can, consciously giving away perfection, say, in turn four in order to get around turn two better. For the big races, the three 500-milers, up to 30 days is given to preparing the car. In the shorter races there is not that much time, and preparation usually has to be accomplished in four or five days. The big teams have two cars for their drivers: a car basically set up for the shorter races and another, probably better, that they use to run the 500's.

It quickly became obvious that Bobby Unser had the best car in the field this day. With seeming ease he continued to open his lead over Bettenhausen. Back in the tail end of the roaring line of cars Mike Hiss was doing what he'd said he'd do, passing four cars on the first lap. Because of the jumbled qualifying there were a number of slower cars between him and the leaders. Swede Savage, who'd also qualified by virtue of the draw after losing a rod in the qualifying, was running strongly at Hiss' side. They'd agreed beforehand on their strategy. Their initial concern was to make sure they didn't get tangled up with each other as they pushed their faster cars past their immediate neighbors. It had been decided that Savage would go low and Hiss, having a looser set up car, would run the high groove.

Hiss was doing just that as he came barreling out of turn four, passing a car very near the wall. He got through, but just barely, and the crowd screamed with exhilaration as he came flying down the main flat, already gaining on the car in the 21st position.

The morning before the race Gary Bettenhausen and a few of his mechanics were having lunch in a nearby motel. At another table a young mother was having trouble with her four sons, aged around 10 to 14. The oldest had a deck of cards in his hand that he kept dealing around. As he did the mother would pick up the cards and hand them back to him. "I told you," she said firmly, "that you ain't dealin' no blackjack at the dinner table. Now put them cards in your pocket."

She caught the attention of Bettenhausen and he watched, grinning. The woman was like a lot you see around the race tracks, pretty, but with a hard face and knowing eyes. She was probably the wife of one of the mechanics. Bettenhausen called something across to her and she shrugged. "I don't know what to do with these boys," she said. The boys looked over at Bettenhausen, recognizing him, but not too impressed. One of them said to Gary, "I'm going to be a doctor until I make enough money to buy my own race car. Then I'm going to beat you."

Tom Sneva was having trouble with his car. It wasn't running up to speed. Something seemed wrong in the electrical somewhere. In his rear-view mirror he could see Savage and Hiss bearing down on him. They were high and low so there was no way he could move over to let them pass. Turn one was corning up, but his car was running so under-powered there wasn't even a need to shut off to set up for the corner. He could just run it full throttle.

There is so much good to racing it seems absurd that such a fat lot of the ludicrous and silly must also be included. What the drivers do in going out to the edge challenges the idea that man must be mortal, and enobles triumph for all of us. It would be better if racing could be left at that, with its shining shaft of courage untainted by all the officiousness and commercialism. But that is not how it is. The commercialism might be understood: racing costs a lot of money and the sponsors—the Firestones and Purolators and Shell and Bell Helmets—must be placated and massaged and catered to since their money makes the sport possible. But it does not seem necessary that there be the endless and wearying mumbo-jumbo of the officious insider. In no other sport is there such an obese layer of insiders jealous of their position and constantly jockeying and elbowing to be sure that they stay a little further on the inside than anyone else.

There are, it seems, thousands of officials at a USAC race. Very, very few of these are paid. Most are moderately well-to-do men who are fascinated by racing and who pay their own expenses to come. USAC finds an unending number of jobs for these men because they are what keeps USAC going with their dues and their contributions. However, the jobs are largely unnecessary. Perhaps this is what makes the people who hold them so little, or seem so little. They have a protective instinct, holding on to every tangible evidence of their own importance that they can.

While I was down in the garages I got to wondering what the prize money would be. I spotted a USAC official and walked over and asked him. He told me it was on a percentage of the gate basis. I told him I knew that, but that I also knew there was a guarantee and I wondered what that might be.

He said: "I better not say."

I said, "Listen, I can go right up there in the press box and ask. Save me the walk."

But he answered, "I better not say."

"You mean you don't know."

"Oh, I know all right" he answered with a satisfied look.

"Then tell me. Is it some big secret?"

"I haven't been released to give out that information," he replied. Then he turned around and walked off, holding his tiny secret pressed to his breast. A little later I happened to see a program. The information I wanted was right there, public knowledge.

On the 18th lap Mike Hiss suddenly felt his car begin to lose power. He'd moved up ten places, driving with a quiet, intense ferocity. He could feel how right he was, how melded he was with the car and the track. Then came the almost imperceptible slowing down. Looking back he could see a few faint wisps of smoke from his tail pipe. He felt sick. Oh no, he thought, just keep running, car. Don't fail.

The leaders had settled into the groove of Unser and Bettenhausen and Rutherford and Foyt. Then Foyt had to go to the pits with engine trouble and the field changed. All of a sudden Bill Vukovitch hit the wall between turns three and four. He cut a tire on the rough track and his car was abruptly into the concrete. For an infinity the car scraped down the wall, pieces flying in all directions, dust rising. Then Vukovitch got it under control and steered the wreck down toward the infield. He came to rest on three wheels, the car tipped over at a drunken angle.

The yellow flag immediately came out and the field slowed. As many cars as could took advantage of the occasion to make a routine pit stop for more gas and a change of rubber on the right side.

They ran under the flag for seven laps. When the green came on, Tom Sneva slammed in the throttle and his car almost died under him. With the racer jumping and missing, Sneva went down to the edge of the apron and eased around the track until he could make it into the pits. He stayed in the car while his crew frantically tried to find the trouble. A few feet away the healthy racers were whizzing by, their muted exhausts bugling out their speed and power. Finally Sneva felt a hand on his shoulder indicating he should switch off. He did and, in spite of the noise from the track, there came a sudden quiet as his engine died. One of the mechanics was looking at him and shaking his head. "Broken points," he said, in the lull. Sneva looked at him. "Can't we put another set in? Anything?"

The mechanic shook his head. "We don't have another set" he said painfully.

"Oh," Sneva said. He climbed slowly out of the car and stood looking down at it. For a five dollar set of points he was out of the race. That's what it meant to go racing on a shoestring. There was just no chance.

Roger McCluskey was running along fretfully in seventh place. He was able to hold off those chasing him, but his car just wouldn't turn up enough clicks to catch the leaders.

All of a sudden Bobby Unser, the leader, went out with ignition trouble. Rutherford moved temporarily into the lead, but soon lost it to Bettenhausen. Then Bettenhausen had to pit and lost the lead to Al Unser.

Mike Hiss could see the smoke increasing out his tail pipe. He was expecting the black flag at any lap from the starter. As he came booming off turn four he saw the starter, leaning far out in his little tower over the track. The starter was pointing at Hiss, then unfurling a black flag and waving it. That was it. Hiss worked his way lower, slowing to avoid interfering with any cars still racing. He circled the track and pulled into his pits. When he shut off his engine one of his crewmen said: "You were leaking oil." Hiss nodded. He'd known it all along. All he could do now was wait for another race on another day. This one was over.

The field dwindled from the original 26. Foyt was out, Andretti was out. Art Pollard broke a suspension bar and went out. Rick Muther caught on fire and came tumbling headfirst out of his car before it had completely stopped rolling. On the 69th lap, with only 13 cars remaining, Al Unser took the lead. Mike Mosely and Gary Bettenhausen were right behind him. Johnny Rutherford was running strongly in fourth place. Unser's car did not seem to be as fast as Mosely's and Bettenhausen's. But he held them off as lap after lap unwound, skillfully using the traffic to block their attempts to pass. Mosely seemed to have the fastest car, but Unser was outdriving him in the corners.

The yellow came on with only ten laps to go. The cars slowed and began to bunch as the pace car came out to lead them around the track. Unser was still leading with Mosely tight on his shoulder and Bettenhausen just behind. In turn three the safety crew was frantically trying to clean up debris from Swede Savage's car that had littered the track when he blew an engine. The end of the race came nearer as the laps mounted under the yellow. The crowd was growing restive, fearful that the race would finish under the caution flag. At lap 96 they began booing and waving at the pace car to get off the track. Then the pack turned another lap and the starter signaled for one more. The pace car sped up and pulled off the track.

The pace was now under the control of the leader, Unser. The crowd was half on its feet, anticipating a dog fight finish among the leaders. Unser took the field through turn one, then two. He seemed to be slowing the pace even more than that set by the pace car. Suddenly, as they came out of turn two he hit the accelerator and jumped far ahead of Mosely and Bettenhausen. Far across the field, on the back stretch, you could see him pulling away, one hundred, two hundred yards. It seemed forever before Mosely and then Bettenhausen reacted.

As Unser came out of turn four the starter gave him the green flag. Behind him Bettenhausen, still far behind, was passing Mosely.

There was no race after that. Unser's lead was too great. Bettenhausen made up a lot of ground, but Unser took the checkered flag, the winner.

But the crowd didn't like it. As Unser wheeled his car into the winner's circle they gave him a solid round of boos. They thought, mistakenly, that what Unser had done, jumping out under the yellow, was illegal. But this wasn't so. It is up to the leader to set the pace, no matter how he chooses to do it. Some of the drivers, however, didn't agree, at least not with the ethics. Bettenhausen, incensed, said: "What Al did was dirty pool. He slowed way down in turns one and two, making Mosely slow down so much that he lost blower pressure. Then when Al stomped on it, Mike couldn't run. And since we were still under the yellow I had to hold up until it was plain Mike couldn't hold the pace before I could pass him. That was lowdown of Unser."

But Unser just shrugged. "So what?"

The crowd, however, was still arguing about it in the hours it took to clear the parking lots. Some of them felt that one of their heroes had tarnished his shine a little. Real heroes didn't do such things. That was for the cut-throat arena of work-a-day life.

http://www.texasmonthly.com/1973-06-01/feature3.php

Rob Liebbe
11-09-2006, 08:05 AM
? They roadraced there?

Fairly well known in the sixties - even on the national SCCA circuit. I used to have a link to a colloection of vintage photos, but can't find it. Bummer.

michaelmosty
11-09-2006, 10:51 AM
Nice cut and paste job. :roll:

Mike Bell
11-09-2006, 11:09 AM
Nice cut and paste job. :roll:

Too long for ya?? I figured since it required a login to Texas Monthly some might not get to read the whole story. Different strokes.

I'm sure the auditors will edit it down or delete it once they get around to enforcing policy today. 8)

michaelmosty
11-09-2006, 01:04 PM
Nice cut and paste job. :roll:

Too long for ya?? I figured since it required a login to Texas Monthly some might not get to read the whole story. Different strokes.

I'm sure the auditors will edit it down or delete it once they get around to enforcing policy today. 8)
I was initially talking about Marshall's cut and past job. Yours was nice too. :lol:

Mike Bell
11-09-2006, 01:13 PM
Sorry Michael, I'm a little quick on the draw today. :D

Careful, them auditors is after us!! It's a conspiracy, right before the big election.

Big Bruthah is watchin, don't kid urself!

marshall_mosty
11-09-2006, 01:15 PM
... and my own 'bro ratting me out for "overposting".

AllZWay
01-17-2007, 10:04 AM
I saw this link posted on another site about a long lost Dallas drag strip.....but it also had a road course.

There are few pictures of the road racing on it.

Dallas International Motor Speedway

http://fordflashback.com/dims.asp

AI#97
01-17-2007, 11:11 AM
I saw this link posted on another site about a long lost Dallas drag strip.....but it also had a road course.

There are few pictures of the road racing on it.

Dallas International Motor Speedway

http://fordflashback.com/dims.asp

that was at the NE corner of Main and I35 in Lewisville!!! bout 20 minutes from my house! How cool would that have been to still be there?!

jeffburch
01-17-2007, 04:57 PM
I had a long conversation with a SCCA director today about various things. Seems as though Canole almost had a deal to sell the place recently (housing addition). But he had outs built into the contract and the deal fell through. His daughter I'm told was not happy when the deal soured. Though she is honoring track contracts through the end of '07, I would suggest you get that track record next time you visit. He also told me SCCA gave MSRH a hundred grand. They now have a stake.

jb

GlennCMC70
01-17-2007, 05:04 PM
1:59.7xx. i've ran a 1:59.6xx (in qual on the same weekend). should be able to get that to a 59.0 w/ what i've learned in the offseason and since we were there last. Jeff probably could have set it last year had it not been for his trans failure. Eric did hurt a motor early in the weekend too, so who knows.

AI#97
01-17-2007, 05:34 PM
I had a long conversation with a SCCA director today about various things. Seems as though Canole almost had a deal to sell the place recently (housing addition). But he had outs built into the contract and the deal fell through. His daughter I'm told was not happy when the deal soured. Though she is honoring track contracts through the end of '07, I would suggest you get that track record next time you visit. He also told me SCCA gave MSRH a hundred grand. They now have a stake.

jb

That's a shame....time to advertise for a new owner.....that likes race tracks!

mitchntx
01-28-2007, 07:33 PM
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=27994

AI#97
01-28-2007, 07:59 PM
sounds like they are looking to get the value out of the land for the housing development previously mentioned. At $10.5 Million, I don't see too many people jumping up to buy it... :(

rpoz27
01-29-2007, 11:13 AM
The family has a dog farm on a portion of that land that they will retain and they will also retain the mineral rights (which are nothing to sneeze at). At least, that's what I've been told.

I've also heard rumors of CVAR interest in purchasing the track.

Wirtz
01-29-2007, 09:18 PM
Drifting slightly off topic, but CVAR is a great club. I used to run my ITS Datsun with them. If you are into cool muscle cars road racing (which is what we all are, duh?!?) you should check out one of their weekends even just to spectate. Lots of cool Trans Am cars out there thumping around. There are a coupe of pics from one of the times I ran with them.
www.rcubedmotorsports.no-ip.com/CVAR.html

Jeff

David Love AI27
01-29-2007, 09:52 PM
Drifting slightly off topic, but CVAR is a great club. I used to run my ITS Datsun with them. If you are into cool muscle cars road racing (which is what we all are, duh?!?) you should check out one of their weekends even just to spectate. Lots of cool Trans Am cars out there thumping around. There are a coupe of pics from one of the times I ran with them.
www.rcubedmotorsports.no-ip.com/CVAR.html

Jeff

I worked many CVAR events... lots of old guys with big bucks and even bigger motors... an old Can-Am car called "the Shadow" passed me in my mini cooper and literally blew me off the track... 900+ hp verses 60- hp I was 2/3 down the straight between 6 and 7, Jason glanced back and screamed "LOOK OUT!!", I check the mirror and started to laugh (no problem he was just exiting 6), went to turn in to 7 and glanced over my left shoulder and he was already there... he also had a McClaren (sp?) Indy car driven by one of the Unsers (think it was Bobby). But you are correct, the TransAm cars are way cool.

I read an article in December 06 Car and Driver where the director of Ford Racing Technology is hoping GM's new Camaro and Dodge's new Challanger will get together and establish a NEW Trans-Am series. I saw a couple of Trans-Am races at TWS in the early 70's along with Can-Am... boy those were the days....

Attention Ford fans... Get the Dec 06 Car and Driver titled "MOTHERFR500"... great article about the racing version of the GT500... Roush-Yates 5.0 producing 534hp @ 7,100 and all yours for ONLY $225,000.

Mike Bell
01-30-2007, 07:38 AM
CVAR = very cool cars. Aren't some of the current CMC/AI cars in Texas considered antiques? I thought anything older than 25 years qualified?

Maybe we are the new "old racers" ??

RichardP
02-20-2007, 08:30 PM
I'm hearing that a PCA member bought TWS. Everything is good for this year but next year there will be no timed events (racing). Apparently a big difference in insurance costs?

Anyone have any better information or more details?

Richard P.

mitchntx
02-20-2007, 09:48 PM
I was talking with Schwallenberg a couple hours ago and he indicated things would be as they are till 2010 ...

TEXAST1
02-21-2007, 12:06 PM
How about the facilities? TWS could use a face lift. :shock:

Rob Liebbe
02-21-2007, 01:01 PM
How about the facilities? TWS could use a face lift. :shock:

Facelift...I just hope it continues to exist.

Boudy
02-21-2007, 01:44 PM
Paste together all the rumors, hearsay, and truth in tidbits and TWS gets summed up as an invesment property waiting to cash in on future developement. It's a $2 million dollar dump on the market for $10, what does that tell you? Sad but true, we'll be lucky if the investors allow it to be used at all until it gets flipped to developers.

From a business perspective, $5 million should build a new facility with a decent shot at a fair R.O.I. But to pay $10 for a track that needs $3 in repairs... Anyone with $10 mil has got to have more marbles than that.

Boudy

donovan
02-21-2007, 05:52 PM
Rumor: It took $8 to build MSR-H

One of the newest NASCAR tracks cost $400+ to build.

Rob Liebbe
02-21-2007, 08:45 PM
Anyone with $10 mil has got to have more marbles than that.

Boudy

Something not quite right with your logic Boudy - just think of Anna Nicole Smith, Paris Hilton, any NFL Linebacker, etc. etc.

Money doesn't always equal brains.

That's my 2 cents

Todd Covini
02-21-2007, 11:58 PM
Rumor: It took $8 to build MSR-H

One of the newest NASCAR tracks cost $400+ to build.

I heard $8M was what it took to get it started....now approaching $20M today with the additional buildings and kart track going in as we speak.

-=- T

mitchntx
02-22-2007, 12:04 AM
Maybe they should have earmarked some cash on a consultant ...

Wirtz
02-22-2007, 12:52 AM
Maybe they should have earmarked some cash on a consultant ...

I'm availible! I figure a couple of million would do fine, that might help me get my car done....