2022 Safety Requirement - Fire System

[michaelmosty]

Just wanted to post this for those that have not heard yet that a Fire System is mandatory for all race car classes within NASA for the 2022 season and beyond. I will look to find additional details to post but if anyone else has the official announcement, please feel free to reply here with the info.

The fire system will be needed to receive your annual inspection from NASA.

[Fbody383]

The fire system will be needed to receive your annual inspection from NASA.


15.2 Fire System
It is highly recommended that a fire system be installed (required on some cars, as specified in class rules) inaddition to a securely mounted fire extinguisher. An on-board system uses lines routed through the car with asingle actuator to engage in case of emergency. An on-board system shall use Novec 1230, Halon 1301, 1211,or Halotron I, hexafluoropropane, HFC-236a, CC0610, FE-36, five (5) pound minimum, with a minimum of two (2)nozzles (one (1) in cockpit and one (1) in engine bay) with manual or auto release. Other agents in SFI certifiedsystems are acceptable. Systems may also use AFFF material (e.g. SPA Lite, ZERO 2000, Coldfire 302) 2.25liter minimum. Additionally, the Lifeline Zero 360 Novek, 2.25 liter (or larger) is permitted. If such systems areused, the appropriate atomizing nozzles shall be used. All AFFF internally pressurized system bottles shall usea working pressure gauge. All AFFF bottles shall be marked with the recommended “filled weight.” All systemcylinders should be securely mounted with bolts. On-board systems may also use CEA614 provided that thelines and nozzles are replaced as per the manufacturer’s (3M) instructions. If an electric solenoid or switch isused to activate the fire suppression system, it should not lose power when the electrical master switch or vehicleignition switch is turned off. As of 01/01/2022 an onboard fire system is required.

NASA CCR Here: https://members.drivenasa.com/rules/ccr.pdf

[Gerno]

NASA CCR Here: https://members.drivenasa.com/rules/ccr.pdf


So based not he first sentence (specifically the word "inaddition") you need both a fire extinguisher and a fire system? Currently I only have a fire system in my car, no extinguisher and did not have issues with tech the last 2 years.

[Fbody383]

So based not he first sentence (specifically the word "inaddition") you need both a fire extinguisher and a fire system? Currently I only have a fire system in my car, no extinguisher and did not have issues with tech the last 2 years. I'm in the same boat as you - always had a fire system only and not an additional extinguisher. Maybe the series director can check with National tech...

[RichardP]

I haven't looked at the specific wording of the rules. An onboard fire system and a fire extinguisher effectively serve different purposes. An onboard system is something you pull when fire erupts to give you time to get out. You wouldn't realistically grab the extinguisher while you were sitting there and start spraying before you got out. Once you are out, you would like to have a way to spray whatever is specifically on fire. This is especially true if you pulling over caught the grass on fire or something. The onboard system isn't useful for this. One is to save you, one is to maybe save the car.

Richard P.

[ShadowBolt]

Is there a system that is better than others for our type of racing? Something reasonable in price but works well?

Jerry

[AllZWay]

I haven't looked at the specific wording of the rules. An onboard fire system and a fire extinguisher effectively serve different purposes. An onboard system is something you pull when fire erupts to give you time to get out. You wouldn't realistically grab the extinguisher while you were sitting there and start spraying before you got out. Once you are out, you would like to have a way to spray whatever is specifically on fire. This is especially true if you pulling over caught the grass on fire or something. The onboard system isn't useful for this. One is to save you, one is to maybe save the car.

Richard P.


Just this last summer and young racer was killed in a fire in a mini-sprint car and tracks started demanding everyone carry a fire extinguishers in our cars and I heard one owner have this to say after many complaints from drivers.

"The fire extinguisher in the car is not for your protection in the car, it is there for you to help another racer in need." And for like you said.. to help put out a fire outside the cockpit. If there is a fire inside.. I am just getting out and not trying to pull the extinguisher and put the inside fire out.

This young kid died because there wasn't adequate fire extinguishers available fast enough. (long story with more to tell, because the track really made many errors as well, but could have been prevented.)

[Fbody383]

Is there a system that is better than others for our type of racing? Something reasonable in price but works well?

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/LS-Swapped-2003-Nissan-350z/installing-lifelines-compact-efficient-novec-1230-/

I have this one that's refillable at the track; I carry a spare CO2 cartridge and foam solution: https://www.ioportracing.com/ess-fire-systems/2.3-liter-afff-fire-system-ess/

Same folks sell a bigger one of the same style.

[ShadowBolt]

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/project-cars/LS-Swapped-2003-Nissan-350z/installing-lifelines-compact-efficient-novec-1230-/

I have this one that's refillable at the track; I carry a spare CO2 cartridge and foam solution: https://www.ioportracing.com/ess-fire-systems/2.3-liter-afff-fire-system-ess/

Same folks sell a bigger one of the same style.

$800.00? Okay I found one for $400.00

[rleng1]

If NASA is requiring SFI or FIA systems, would re-filling the canister yourself at the track void that rating?

[t500hps]

If NASA is requiring SFI or FIA systems, would re-filling the canister yourself at the track void that rating?

I have heard that you are correct......but NOT from a person in authority. I was interested in a self-filling foam system but heard it would not be compliant. I would certainly ask if something is compliant before buying it.

[Storm Trooper]

If NASA is requiring SFI or FIA systems, would re-filling the canister yourself at the track void that rating?

Rules for SCCA Club Racing require a SFI 17.1 certified fire system in all newly logbooked cars in classes requiring fire systems. Upgrade to a SFI 17.1 fire system for just $15.00. Additionally, SCCA will allow the club racer to use the ESS refill kits without requiring any recertification. This is a great advantage for the club racer over any other system since if they are fired, they must be sent back to the factory to be refilled and recertified.

Rules for Lucky Dog, LeMons and the like require a SFI 17.1 certified fire system in all cars. Both our 2.3-liter and 4.8-liter systems will satisfy their rules. To be SFI-certified the bottle must be recertified every two years and the seal must not be broken. If the system is deployed, you must send it back to the manufacturer (or his agent) for refill and recertification. I/O Port is the West Coast agent for ESS and does all certifications and recertifications right here in Lafayette, California.

I guess we will see?

[michaelmosty]

I just received notice from Hank that NASA has decided to delay the Fire System requirement until the 2023 season to give them more time to finalize all the details. I'm sure we will get more specifics to answer our questions as the rule for 2023 gets 100% determined.

I already bought a system and will plan to install it and hope it is legal for 2023, haha.

[Fbody383]

I just received notice from Hank that NASA has decided to delay the Fire System requirement until the 2023...

Would you please send him a note to make sure HQ updates the CCR as soon as possible.

What system did you get?

[Storm Trooper]

I just received notice from Hank that NASA has decided to delay the Fire System requirement until the 2023 season to give them more time to finalize all the details. I'm sure we will get more specifics to answer our questions as the rule for 2023 gets 100% determined.

I already bought a system and will plan to install it and hope it is legal for 2023, haha.

Thank you for looking into this.
We appreciate y’all!

[michaelmosty]

I got the Lifeline Zero 2000, 4 liter system. It was $400.

[AllZWay]

I got the Lifeline Zero 2000, 4 liter system. It was $400.

Have you installed it yet? Does it come with enough line to put the bottle just about anywhere?

[Fbody383]

I got the Lifeline Zero 2000, 4 liter system. It was $400.
I love that Competition Motorsports has "NASA LEGAL" on the listing...

[Gerno]

This is the system I have in my car, think I bought it from Pegasus. It has 1/2 the nozzles as the other one but I question if more than 4 are really need to cover the engine and driver given the size of the bottle. Either way, this system was easy to install and had enough line for my car. I need to re-certify the bottle before MSR so I'll let everyone know how that goes. Apparently G-Speed can do it and HD Motorsports in Austin is working to get certified to do it as well.

https://spatechnique.com/collections/fire-suppression/products/fia18-l4s

[Fbody383]

Would also be nice to know whether SFI/FIA is REQUIRED since it doesn't say that in the CCR.

[CWiseman]

Red Shift Racing has had fire systems in all three Camaros all along. Kinda helpful since they can be placed in a better location for ballast, than the actual ballast location.

[rleng1]

I also purchased the Lifeline 2000 system from CMS, and received the NASA discount (12%) for $355.
Was going to order from GUD, but was out of stock. This was before grace period.

[Gerno]

Recertified and refilled my SPA system this week. Overall an easy process but I was left annoyed. I decided to send to G- Speed because they were the closest and I like to support local. It was difficult to get clear information from them in advance because Chris has been sick for over a week, as with most people I know these days. I decided to just send it and get it done anyways, I should have asked the cost first. Nothing was wrong with my bottle, it was a simple test and refill. G-Speed charged me $240 for the service when a completely new filled bottle is only $250 and Pegasus charges $99 for the exact same services. I don't mind paying decent shop rates for work but feel I got a bit screwed with this deal... oh well... lesson learned with G-Speed. Good news is I at least have my bottle back without stressing for MSR and am good another 2 years... I just hope NASA doesn't setup rules next year that exclude the system I aleady have

[BryanL]

Does anyone have a suggested handlheld fire bottle and mounting system?

Also what year Helmets are required this year?

[michaelmosty]

Does anyone have a suggested handlheld fire bottle and mounting system?

Also what year Helmets are required this year?

Helmets need to be SA2015 or SA2020.

[BryanL]

Anyone have a suggestion on a helmet let me know. Been a long time since I've looked and I have to have a newer one. Been looking more at MX helmets.

Going to try and find a handheld that's legal since I'll need it next year then have time to figure out updating the fire system or swapping the one from the white car. Does this work?

https://www.ioportracing.com/fire-extinguishers-hand-held/amerex-2.5-pound-dry-chemical-fire-extinguisher-with-bracket/

Or do I also need one of their other brackets to be legal?
https://www.ioportracing.com/fire-extinguishers-hand-held/amerex-double-strap-bracket-in-red/
https://www.ioportracing.com/fire-extinguishers-hand-held/fire-extinguisher-bracket-nhra-legal-allstar/

[Gerno]

I just bought the HJC H70. Wore it in Houston and it was comfortable with good visibility. With visor down it's also extremely quiet, caught me off guard for a moment. I literally thought I had an issue with the car. I mainly bought due to the top air option, I was dying in some races last year even with a cool shirt. It wasn't needed in Houston so can't comment on its effectiveness yet so will see. Overall price seems a mid tier choice, still hurt to buy when my old Aria seems fine but not too bad.

[ShadowBolt]

Can anyone tell me other than comfort the difference in a $200.00 helmet and a $900.00 helmet? They all have to pass the same test. Are any of the more expensive helmets rated higher in crash test? Are they safer? I know the old saying "do you have a $100.00 head or a $1000.00 head" the motorcycle shops used to put on us in my MX days but are you safer in a high dollar helmet?

JJ

[CWiseman]

I just bought the HJC H70. Wore it in Houston and it was comfortable with good visibility. With visor down it's also extremely quiet, caught me off guard for a moment. I literally thought I had an issue with the car. I mainly bought due to the top air option, I was dying in some races last year even with a cool shirt. It wasn't needed in Houston so can't comment on its effectiveness yet so will see. Overall price seems a mid tier choice, still hurt to buy when my old Aria seems fine but not too bad.

The air flow helps in three ways, limits the fogging, gets somewhat cooler temps in the helmet depending on your source, and blows the carbon dioxide out. Dan loves it, Heather swears by it especially after she broke her clutch at Hallett and had to sit in the car for four laps.

Craig

[RichardP]

Can anyone tell me other than comfort the difference in a $200.00 helmet and a $900.00 helmet? They all have to pass the same test. Are any of the more expensive helmets rated higher in crash test? Are they safer? I know the old saying "do you have a $100.00 head or a $1000.00 head" the motorcycle shops used to put on us in my MX days but are you safer in a high dollar helmet?

All rated helmets pass the same test. The test is pass/fail at least as far as the public is told. Some helmets may or may not be safer but it probably doesn't track with the price. Really expensive helmets are lighter and that is generically safer but that's mostly been negated by head and neck devices.

Above that, you can get helmets with additional features like air intake, venting, audio input, drink tube input, etc. These features add cost. You could argue that keeping hydrated and cool is safer than crashing when your brain gets foggy. Having someone tell you over the radio about cautions/track issues can also be safer.

There are also fitment questions. People have not only different sized heads but different shaped heads. Proper fitment is important to safety.

Beyond that, nicer helmets are just more comfortable. As long as you never put something like a Stilo helmet on your head, you probably won't even notice that your cheap helmet sucks. I went a little cheaper on my helmet this time but added an air intake and a blower system in my car. Every time I put my helmet on I go "Wow, you cheap bastard" and then go drive and don't really notice it...

Richard P.

[ShadowBolt]

Thanks Richard,

I read a ton on the subject yesterday and from what I gathered helmet fit is way more important than how much you spend. Most I'm told wear a helmet that is way too loose. I know I am guilty of that.

JJ

[ShadowBolt]

I just went to Winding Road in Austin and tried on helmets. I will admit I was wanting to like the Zamp due to features for the dollar but I tried on several. The Zamp was the most comfortable when wearing a helmet that is sized correctly. It was also weighed less than any helmet that cost less than $600.00.

Jerry