Growing AI/CMC numbers

[oz98cobra]

This has been touched on it a couple different threads I read recently, but it didn't seem appropriate to go off on a tangent in either of them, hence the new post ...

This is a goal for this year, as it was previously, and I noticed that in Todd's meeting notes he mentioned doing something to attract Mustang and GM clubs to the events - and Glenn mentioned that there are only so many drag racers you can convert ...

Car clubs are not the answer IMO - many have tried and have put in a big effort, for very little return, myself included. You may be lucky to find someone once in a blue moon, but I really don't see it as a good recruiting ground. The reason is simple and that is folks in car clubs already have a strong interest in other areas of the automotive hobby - typically they like to show their car and/or enjoy the social events - trying to interest them in road racing is doubly hard because you are really asking them to switch one car hobby that they are already very much involved in for another.

So the places to recruit potential racers are from the open track ranks, other forms of racing such as the dirt track community, and from those sports car enthusiasts/race car fans who have an interest in fast cars and racing, but are not already involved in the car club scene.

How do we reach these people? Targeted advertising!
- Open trackers can be reached by placing posters and flyers advertising NASA racing at the tracks so that open trackers from different DE orgs can find out about us. More might be done to promote us in this area by a direct presence and/or liason with other DE orgs, either by NASA TX or series directors if necessary?

- Same approach could be used for the dirt track community - there a literally hundreds of racers doing this around TX every weekend, but how many of them know that NASA even exists, let alone much about it? I'm sure if we could get the message across to the community we would attract more to the fold? To me, this should be our biggest recruiting ground. Perhaps some of our ex-dirt track guys like Boudy or James would have good input here?

- To attract people from the general public, we have to advertise in the mainstream media - this doesn't have to be expensive - something like a simple entry in the events section in the big city newspapers would help (like the Dallas Morning News "Guide") - in a city this big where there are hundreds of thousands of race fans who only get to go watch the races with their families twice a year, you can't tell me that you wouldn't get tens, perhaps hundreds of them who would bring their families out and watch grass roots American V8 racing for a fraction of what it costs for a NASCAR weekend! And how many of them could see what a blast we have, and talk to us and find out that they too could do this without having to mortage their children? Americans love to get out with their families on the weekends, but we need to tell these folks that our events are on, or they will just end up back at the zoo again!

Anyway, these are my thoughts - I'm sure there are plenty of other opinions out there?

[Mike Bell]

Maybe we can make a concerted group effort to get back what we have lost by resolving the issues that have caused us to possibly lose folks.

I'd like to see AG, LT, JB, and others back at the track with us. We're not so far apart that we can't make things right are we? That would be a big jump in car count. And it would be a lot more fun IMHO. Right the ship, get back on a smooth course, and go back to having fun - all of us together.

I know, I'm a hypocrite as I've done more than my share to disrupt the group and the fun. I want to change that.

Then we may even attract potential racers?

[GlennCMC70]

i like those thoughts Daron. so do we put up a plywood sign on the back straight wall, or do we take out ads in those weekly/monthly dirt track news mags?
i mentioned to Jay and Shannon last year about getting an add in each of the major cities in TX (DFW, Houston, A/SA) and put it in the comming events section and sports section.
target Houston in Dec/Jan, DFW in Jan/Feb, A/SA close to TWS weekend, so on and so forth.
i still think we need to post up on our favorite local car forums. i post about 2 times a month durring the season on a few F-body forums. there are always new people who have a chance to be saved before they get sucked in. there are also plenty of those who grow tired of the money pit drag racing can be. some can be converted. those are cheep venues to recruit. it only cost you and me time.

great topic. lets see where this goes and get it to NASA TX for input from the AI/CMC crew.

[jeffburch]

Good golly, what a bunch of magpies!
Babbling on like a bunch of hens over the back fence.
Because my name keeps coming up on this subject, I will respond.

I'm not running for points in the Tx region. Period, get over it.
I'm not disgruntled or boycotting management.
I will be preparing (saving money) for Mid Ohio.
Plus I wanna run a track or 2 that I've always dreamed of running on.

A little variety.
Passing on the Torch.

jb

[Mike Bell]

Good golly, what a bunch of magpies!
Babbling on like a bunch of hens over the back fence.
Because my name keeps coming up on this subject, I will respond.

I'm not running for points in the Tx region. Period, get over it.
I'm not disgruntled or boycotting management.
I will be preparing (saving money) for Mid Ohio.
Plus I wanna run a track or 2 that I've always dreamed of running on.

A little variety.
Passing on the Torch.

jb

Thanks for clearing it up JB! I'll see you at the track sometime soon then! 8)

[Todd Covini]

Two thoughts....

1) Burch...if there's one event you need to come to, it's next weekend to receive your Championship trophy and rightful ceremony. (period) If no-one picks you up on the side of the road (with your stick and bandana bag) then jump in a damn car and git down here to hang wit the boyz.

2) Each and every one of us are agents of Texas AI/CMC. So the responsibility doesn't lie on just NASA TX or the Series Directors. If you're going to an event and think there might be some interest in OUR series, then contact NASA Texas and see about some paraphanelia.

Maybe NASA could post "finder's prize" like NetFlix...bring in 3 racers and get your next entry fee comp'd! :idea:

-=- T

[AI#97]

Two thoughts....



2) Each and every one of us are agents of Texas AI/CMC. So the responsibility doesn't lie on just NASA TX or the Series Directors. If you're going to an event and think there might be some interest in OUR series, then contact NASA Texas and see about some paraphanelia.

-=- T

Todd, thanks for leaving the door open but WE are not agents of NASA TX...I believe that is outside our "circle of influence" to use your words. WE are agents of AI/CMC and that is it. If you are asking us as racers to fund advertising for NASA TX, get real. I already invested HUGE amounts of money to build a car and race each weekend that I can make it. Don't for ONE MINUTE ask me to pay for advertising or make extra effort beyond putting my car on track and keeping it there.

Two things need to happen REALLY FUCKING QUICK!!! 1. Find someone who actually gives a shit and will take over NASA TX.... 2. Once that is done, start running it like a professional organization and as a business to make money.


Daron, you have a great point about targeting HPDE regulars but I think you know darn good and well that the only HPDE group in TX that packs people in is Driver's Edge and we all know there is plenty of bad blood between Rick and Jay/Shannon. Besides, if Rick converts his customers to racers....he loses revenue.

So, welcome to another shit sandwich...anyone got any musturd?! :?

[Todd Covini]

Ummmm....go back and read my quote that you quoted.

"We are all agents of Texas AI/CMC."

Much like Daron & you have great ideas and know a lot of people, my point was to just network. Not asking anyone to come out of pocket on NASA's behalf. Not asking anyone to go out of their way. If everyone were to bring in 2 friends there really isn't anything NASA TX needs to do. Don't feel obligated...it was just a suggestion and an open door.

This is OUR series...NASA is just providing the sandbox for us to play in. My point was just that NASA has brochures, banners and stuff they can provide you if you're heading out to an event anyway. (car shows, swap meets, whatever...)

Sheesh...bite my head off. Wish you could be there next weekend (so I could slap you on the back of the head) LOL :lol: :wink: :roll:

-=- T

[oz98cobra]

actually Matt, while DriversEdge is usually a sell out each time, they are definitely not the only game in town - Apex, PCA, BMWCCA, Texas Driver Experience, TWSMSC, SVTOA, SCMC, and a few other all hold events with plenty of entrants.

You'll notice I suggested that NASA TX place flyers and or posters at the tracks - this method involves no direct interaction between NASA TX and the DE orgs. And it does work - Apex has flyers at MSR Cresson, and they are responsible for attracting a good percentage of their entrants.

Todd, Matt does have a point (although he could of made it a little less poignantly?) - it just is not going to happen to expect racers to distribute flyers or other material at DE events (in my case I instruct for most of these orgs and it would be considered a conflict of interest by most of them if I did such a thing) - NASA TX needs to approach all the TX tracks and seek permission to display marketing materials on a permanent basis. Racers may be able help out once the initial step is taken - I'm sure there would be racers who live near or frequent their local tracks who could help restock the flyers, etc.

Should we consider doing an AI/CMC flyer to compliment the NASA TX one? Who'd pay? NASA TX or from our AI/CMC group funds?

[Todd Covini]

Great stuff, Daron.

If it's a flyer for Texas AI/CMC...then we should do & pay.
If it's a flyer for NASA Texas...then they should do & pay.

This really was my point...it's our series. What do we want to do?

I wouldn't suggest posting stuff at other people's opentrack events, though. That's just not cool.

However, if someone is really interested in AI/CMC and they know you are a racer, there's nothing wrong with a little networking and reaching into the trunk of your car to give them an AI/CMC flyer or info sheet.

"We are all agents of AI/CMC."

If someone wants to take the lead in designing something...or better yet, put together a "Design Challenge" where we all vote on our favorite flyer....have at it!!! You guys are empowered!

I just ask that we run stuff thru here or a series director so we all know what's going out there and there aren't any conflicts or issues.

Thanks for the brainstorm guys...

-=- Todd

[Todd Covini]

...and Matt
You're still comin' in at a 10 and we need you around a 4.
Howsabout a New Year's Resolution that we tone down a little bit on the boards to a PG-13 level and keep everyone's 'tude in check?

Al and Glenn are excitable boys as well as many on the forum.
We can get a lot more done if we aren't ALL CAPPING AT EACH OTHER!!! :wink:

-=- T

[rpoz27]

As far as I am concerned, we can push AI/CMC at TWSMSC and post flyers, etc. at TWS year round. I'll need a decent supply, though, because some of the other groups are very protective of their "turf" and will rip things off the walls if they consider them a conflict. The bike groups probably won't mind and I wouldn't think the once a year track events that some of the car clubs run would mind the extra info.

College sports car clubs are other good places to troll for recruits. I've gotten really good numbers from the TAMSCC. Admittedly, I came up with a way for them to drive for free in exchange for working, but 95% of those that come out once, come back and admit to the addiction. These guys are going to be the racers of tomorrrow and while not all of them have a lot of spare money at this point in their lives for entry fees, cages, etc., they will soon and the interest is already there.

[Wirtz]

Using student car clubs as workers in exchange for some seat time is a good deal I think. I used to go to A&M and was a member of TAMSCC. When I was there we used to work Porsche club weekends in exchange for track time during lunches. Like you say, money is the issue so it was hard to pass up the chance. I think UT has has a growing student car club. Probably the trick is hit up the schools close the track being run that weekend since time and commute are also an issue.

Jeff
- class of '95 Whoop!

[rpoz27]

I give them a day of driving in exchange for a day of working. The group on corners Sat. goes on track Sun. and vice versa. My work/drive list fills up a few days after I post the opportunity with some people as alternates. So far, I've been able to man 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, & 13 every weekend at TWS with a few doubled up for training. And they do a fantastic job!

[AI#97]

Todd, I can tone it down but I need to ask this question one more time. Why are WE the racers appearing to be the only ones coming up with the ideas or the MONEY to promote NASA TX and AI/CMC...? Time after time we hear support from "management" about OUR great ideas, but more often than not, see little or weak execution.

Granted, we are all here to have fun and do what we can to lure folks into the addiction we all have....but let's look at the models from other regions and other sanctioning bodies and ACTUALLY do something BETTER than what we have done in the past!!

From what I can tell, NASA TX has been around since 2003, NASA in general has been around a little longer....and it appears the same arguments amongst racers in this group have NOT changed. We are still taking baby steps while trying to reinvent the wheel. Maybe what needs to happen isn't a local regional leadership team but a national level team that compares notes and turns this into a Sanctioning body nationally that attracts TV, print ads and ADVERTISERS to our group. Then the rest is partially on cruise control. It's not rocket science and the SCCA has already laid the ground work for something like this so we can fasttrack instead of taking 15 years.

The problem I see is that the Region has grown to a point where asking the racers to promote, run and police the series they are racing in is taking too much time of those asked to step in which totally prevents any logical and real progress. If you are asking yourself should I change tires between rounds or work on developing the newsletter notes for post weekend recaps, maybe you need to focus on torquing your lugnuts...(I know what my decision needs to be! :wink: ). It's time we have dedicated, NON-racers taking the reins and letting us do what we do best which is bringing the cars, the excitement and fun for the crowds.

Honestly, what I would rather see instead of the AI/CMC state of the union address would be one from NASA TX... I guess that happens at the first event? Might be a better idea to publish it in a manner where EVERYONE gets to hear it and not just those fortuneate enough to attend?!


Is that better for tone?....you also have editing powers and haven't restrained from using them in the past so feel free...within reason! :wink:

[chicane23]

If it's a flyer for Texas AI/CMC...then we should do & pay.
If it's a flyer for NASA Texas...then they should do & pay.
-=- Todd

Todd,

I don't understand the thought process here. Why should the racers use their own money? NASA corp or Tx needs to promote their series. The racers need to focus on being safe, clean and having a great time with friends. The racers pay a large fee to race already.
I believe everyone goes above and beyond for this series, well at one time or another. I believe the racers will continue to help when needed, including having a few fleyer in truck or car and hand out as they see fit.

I can say that working the event and racing is a choice and I believe comes with some sacrifrice. That usually mean either your well being as in eating and drinking properly or maintenance with the car. When I was instructing this was an issue and I was lucky enough to have my cousin at the track.
Not everyone has this help.

[AI#97]

John is right Todd. We can offer up time, rides and answering questions but AI/CMC is still OWNED by NASA whether it be TX or National. When I start getting paid for my marketing services either by reduced entry fees or cash, then that may change and I will print up flyers...

There is a lot of good ideas out there on the table but what I see has failed is that NO ONE has written them down, collected them, found the best ones, set goals and timeframes to meet them and then Execute......yet. Given this is out of our "circle of influence" as racers, I guess our only choice is to choose amongst the "sandboxes"...

So, who's got the best sandbox?! :roll:

[mitchntx]

When I start getting paid for my marketing services either by reduced entry fees or cash, then that may change and I will print up flyers...


Matt, could you [lease post a resume of your marketing experience?

If you're gonna be compensated from monies I "donate", I want to see the qualifications of those being compensated.

[AI#97]

Matt, could you [lease post a resume of your marketing experience?

If you're gonna be compensated from monies I "donate", I want to see the qualifications of those being compensated.

The more important question mitch might be to ask for the resume of those currently in the "circle of influence"! :wink:

[Todd Covini]

All good stuff, guys...and Matt...I do appreciate you toning it down and coming in at a 5 again. Thank you!!

The "marketing" we're talking about for AI/CMC simply entails word of mouth, some internet time and maybe some toner/printer ink. That's it.

Many of us who are in the series now are here because of someone we met or someone we know and I think the group is awesome! I look around at other series and it's a bunch of guys who show up, try to talk/share as least as they can...do the best in standings they can and then go home! Come on...we're so much more than that.

You guys are right...NASA can, has and likely will market the organization. They have some pretty cool ads in GRM and the Nationals were a real hoot, as well.

I can't worry about NASA Texas or NASA in general....they are out of my... (now popular term), "circle of influence". But contrary to what some of you guys think, I believe we, in Texas AI/CMC have done a kick-ass job of marketing ourselves and bringing the group together.

Eric Varner and David Donovan haven't asked for a red cent for their countless hours of video editing and producing.

Jeff Brooks hasn't said boo about payment for this website that he (WE) put together outside of the NASA realm.

...and the list goes on of folks giving into the series. THAT'S what I'm talkin' about. NASA has been really good to help out but if we stand around waiting for someone to do all of this stuff for us...we'll be waiting for a while.

Anyway...I think we're all saying the same thing. We all have different thresholds of pain as to what we're willing to do. I appreciate what all you guys do, whether it's nothing...or hundreds of hours to help out.

1 week to go until track time and banquet time!!! WooHoo...you guys will see the fruits of many hours of labor there...and a couple peaches as well! :wink:

-=- T

[David Love AI27]

Daron, you have a great point about targeting HPDE regulars but I think you know darn good and well that the only HPDE group in TX that packs people in is Driver's Edge :?

YOU ARE SSSSSOOOO FULL OF CRAP!!!! I came into this series through NASATX HPDE!!!! and so did my daughter and soon my cousin and next will be my son.... NONE of us HAVE ever nor WILL ever attend Driver's Edge... get the facts before posting this crap!!!!

[David Love AI27]

Last year I purchased a DVD from SCCA - Houston Region titled: "50 Years of Fueling the Racing Spirit" it was released AFTER the Donovan/Varner video... it took them 50 years to distribute their first one!! oh and the video was crap but the cover was really nice...

[Mike Bell]

Daron, you have a great point about targeting HPDE regulars but I think you know darn good and well that the only HPDE group in TX that packs people in is Driver's Edge :?

YOU ARE SSSSSOOOO FULL OF CRAP!!!! I came into this series through NASATX HPDE!!!! and so did my daughter and soon my cousin and next will be my son.... NONE of us HAVE ever nor WILL ever attend Driver's Edge... get the facts before posting this crap!!!!

Uh, David, the fact is that Drivers Edge still packs them in and sells out their HPDE events on a regular basis. Not sure why you are doubting that simply because you didn't use Mr. Schwalenberg's services. :?:

[GlennCMC70]

[
Daron, you have a great point about targeting HPDE regulars but I think you know darn good and well that the only HPDE group in TX that packs people in is Driver's Edge :?

YOU ARE SSSSSOOOO FULL OF CRAP!!!! I came into this series through NASATX HPDE!!!! and so did my daughter and soon my cousin and next will be my son.... NONE of us HAVE ever nor WILL ever attend Driver's Edge... get the facts before posting this crap!!!!

David, i too think you mis-took Todds comment. look at car count. Drivers Edge is where i came from. those events are almost always a sell out. when was the last time NASA HPDE refused HPDE drivers due to car count?

Todd, your above statement was spot on. do what you can.
Ask not what NASA can do for you, ask what you can do for AI/CMC TX.
i know, cheezy. :roll: but you get the point. you only get out of it what you put into it. Todd and Adam both put alot into this just to get it started. if your not willing to do a little something to further the growth of AI/CMC, dont complain about what other arent doing.

[bossskip302]

Sorry I have not been in the loop...what happened to the monies we gave last year to Chris...was it used for the banquet...as far as marketing I spent 10 years with Pepsico as many hats one being Bus. Development Manager, we started the 20oz concept...(can you imagine me at 35 years old managing 20 folks and overseeing 35 million budget...scary)
NASA Tx can do much more to increase car numbers, the first person I meet was AG and he was a great ambassador for NASA, made us feel welcomed.
Whom is going to fill shoes like that?
long uphill battle
I dont think marketing is the what needs to be looked at.
S

[Todd Covini]

Couple clarifications...
1) I was mis-quoted...it wasn't I that made the Driver's Edge statement above, it was Matt. (I corrected it for the record.)

2) No disrespect to the Driver's Edge...they do pack 'em in and have a great HPDE program as do SVTOA, SCMC and others....that is a fact. It's an opinion, however, whether or not HPDE drivers make good AI/CMC candidates...I think they are, whichever HPDE program they come from (preferably NASA!) :wink:

3) The $600 in our series fund has yet to be spent and is sitting with me at the moment. The monies were originally used for the Speedzone downpayment and when it got a little Chilly in Dallas, they returned it to me.

Now, the Houston banquet will largely be provided by DriverSource and Argent Lab....but I'd like use a fraction of the funds for this banquet if necessary to ensure success and we plan to return the remaining funds for other means later this year. We'll account for any & all expenditures.

-=- Todd

[donovan]

Summer BBQ!!!

[David Love AI27]

[quote="Mike BellUh, David, the fact is that Drivers Edge still packs them in and sells out their HPDE events on a regular basis. Not sure why you are doubting that simply because you didn't use Mr. Schwalenberg's services. :?:[/quote]

They make money offering DE, not racing... If they promoted our racing series they would loose their business. I have heard more than once that NASATX should charge MORE for DE to take the load off of us, that is so stupid. How about this for an idea: LOWER the DE fees bring in more potential racers and then with more numbers NASATX can lower the fees... I have been wrong before so there is a good chance I am wrong again... :evil:

[Mike Bell]

Uh, David, the fact is that Drivers Edge still packs them in and sells out their HPDE events on a regular basis. Not sure why you are doubting that simply because you didn't use Mr. Schwalenberg's services. :?:

They make money offering DE, not racing... If they promoted our racing series they would loose their business. I have heard more than once that NASATX should charge MORE for DE to take the load off of us, that is so stupid. How about this for an idea: LOWER the DE fees bring in more potential racers and then with more numbers NASATX can lower the fees... I have been wrong before so there is a good chance I am wrong again... :evil:

OK, I'll go ahead and admit it: I'm very confused and cannot connect any of the dots. You got me stumped. What is the question again? :?

Did I ever say "charge more for DE"?? Did I ever say that TDE should promote NASA TX racing??

Someone said TDE sells out their HPDE on a regular basis, you said they were full of crap and to get the facts straight - I pointed out where I agree with the assertion that TDE packs them in for their HPDE events.

How that equates to anything regarding NASA TX is beyond me amigo.

[mitchntx]

They make money offering DE, not racing... If they promoted our racing series they would loose their business. I have heard more than once that NASATX should charge MORE for DE to take the load off of us, that is so stupid. How about this for an idea: LOWER the DE fees bring in more potential racers and then with more numbers NASATX can lower the fees... I have been wrong before so there is a good chance I am wrong again... :evil:

I think you need a cigarette ... ;)

No one is lowering anything. I wouldn't be suprised to see an increase in fees for both the racers and DE.

The underlying facts are ...

Fact one:
Mustangs and Camaros are considered drag cars. Go to any internet forum and straight-line racing is the over-whelming majority. why? Because it's easier to bench race reaction times, elapsed times and trap speeds. It's a common denominator ...

Conversely, how does someone with FTD at MSR-H compare his internet chest thumping to a driver at VIR with FTD?

You can't ... so road racing these cars has strike one against it.

Fact two:
DEs foster play, not racers. DEs allow someone with a street car to drive fast with little fear of damage. 90% of the DE participants drive their cars to the track on Sunday and to work on Monday.

Owning a dedicated track car takes a SIGNIFICANT investment in infrastructure to support it.

I know a few of us came through the DE ranks. We are a HUGE minority of DE participants.

Fact 3:
NASA-TX is race oriented. The focus is race, not DE. The folks running DE are there to race, not baby sit.

That is not a statement that should be taken as an insult to their dedication to DE, just a mind-set that permeates all of NASA-TX.

Personally and after being Time Trial Director for a season, I don't see how a person can split their focus between the 2 venues. If I had TT to deal with, my race car suffered. If I was working on the race car, TT suffered.

So, what's the answer?

I dunno ...

[donovan]

and then there were four...

[Mike Bell]

and then there were four...

Or three, or two.

[AI#97]

Mitch, you are partially correct regarding the drag racing thing but there are a couple of groups for mustangs like SCMC and SVTOA that pack in 100 cars easy. I have instructed at both and honestly, the DE gang never wants to go to the expense of racing or turn their dailies into a race car.

PCA only has 1 or two events a year, BMWCCA had one a year and recently went to 2. Daron is correct about Apex and I forgot about them.

NASATX HPDE's could use some car counts but keep in mind that they are an avenue to "sign off" drivers for their comp licenses as a requirement.


Anyway, DL, find some nicorette man....you be tweakin' a little.

[Mike Bell]

I quit smoking last Friday, ready to chew through this desk in front of me. I can sympathize...

[jeffburch]

MB/DL

29 days for me.
Physical withdrawls gone.
Mental ones subsiding slowly.
Now kinda like remembering lost love ones.
Less frequent with the passing of time.

A pack was 25c when I started LOL!
Prolly coulda bought an LS7 car with the money I blew on 'em.

jb

[oz98cobra]

Mitch, your comments about drag racing were absolutely spot on ... a couple years ago .. but times are a changing - note Ford's 100% road course oriented marketing and racing focus these days - note a big increase in the number of 05 mustangs seen at DE events these days compared to the small number of earlier models we used to see - note the huge increase in DE events these days - note the huge increase in road courses recently ...

And I have to beg to differ with the notion that the DE's are not a big potential recruiting ground for future racers. So many of us came from there - JG, Glenn, Mitch, AG, myself and Mason ... Indeed, NASA's whole growth strategy is based on it! Just like drag racers who start out taking their daily driver to the track on Friday nights ... there are plenty that never do more than just that - never make the leap from street car to full on dedicated racing - but there are also plenty who do just that!

SVTOA and SCMC style "once a year" events tend to attract those who come out to play but once a year in their daily driver - but orgs like DriversEdge, PCA and BMWCCA are different - many of the folks who start with these orgs progress through the ranks, and eventually, many reach a point where just tooling around in their street cars doesn't cut it anymore ... so they look to racing to satisfy the need for speed. NASA, PCA, and BMWCCA have a path to accommodate this need ... DriversEdge does not (yet!).

I believe that NASA's challenge is to ensure that it has a way to get noticed by those advanced DE folks from other orgs who may be considering a place to go racing - we need them to look at us first before they end up at the SCCA or single make clubs - right now, I don't think that is necessarily the case? The TT positions NASA in an ideal position to provide a bridge between DE and full blown racing, and I think the best way for NASA to get the message out is to have material available at the tracks on permanent basis - flyers, posters on the notice boards, advertising billboards on the pitwall, etc.

This gets around any need to have "cooperation" between DE orgs and NASA, and hopefully, will prompt a few more folks to come talk to the drivers/instructors who have NASA stickers on their cars!

I have to agree with Todd on who pays for what - NASA TX already has brochures covering all racing classes, but unless there is already a national AI/CMC brochure available to us, if we want to do something over and above the generic NASA brochure to help attract more drivers to AI/CMC, then perhaps we should take care of that ourselves? I'm sure NASA TX won't mind helping distribute our flyers if we are doing the same for them?

I'd also like to see more done to try to promote ASC and AI/CMC in dirt track circles, but I don't have any contacts in that area to help directly.

[Mike Bell]

Wow JB, I had no idea that you quit also. Guess that new tax hike has had some added benefit lol. Congrats bro! DL also? Wow, everyone bailing on old habits. Almost 24 years smoking for me, but I don't recall any $0.25/pack prices!

Day 4 here and nobody wants to talk to me at the office. Hope it gets better because this hasn't been any fun so far... :lol:

[marshall_mosty]

Day 4 here and nobody wants to talk to me at the office. Hope it gets better because this hasn't been any fun so far... :lol:
Mike, just keep thinking about the brats... it's all about the brats...

[mitchntx]

I DID post this ...




I know a few of us came through the DE ranks. We are a HUGE minority of DE participants.


... and I stand by it.

VERY few DE participants move to wheel to wheel ...

Matt, I know Ford has a new marketing strategy. But you have to acknowledge that that general public would NEVER buy a new car and go racing in it.

[AI#97]

I DID post this ...




I know a few of us came through the DE ranks. We are a HUGE minority of DE participants.


... and I stand by it.

VERY few DE participants move to wheel to wheel ...

Matt, I know Ford has a new marketing strategy. But you have to acknowledge that that general public would NEVER buy a new car and go racing in it.

Skip did!
:wink:

I think we are all hitting good points about what can be done but up till now, it's all just lip flapping and restless typing. What's amazing is that all of these are great ideas and have been put out in the open for atleast 2 years... Anyone seen a sign yet?

Daron, the national ad campaign in GRM for NASA shows their logo on the outside wall of some race track. Maybe there just isn't any trickle down of information about how to promote a region? Truthfully, if National wants more licensed racers, THEY can kick in some money too!

The funny thing is that NASA started Spec E30 BMW and if you go to an BMWCCA event, they know nothing about the fact they can race with NASA locally... and it would be one of the cheapest racing classes available!!!

I think I am done arguing about it or trying to think about what can be done. I am going to go worry about my own "circle of influence" and to hell with the rest.

[chicane23]

And I have to beg to differ with the notion that the DE's are not a big potential recruiting ground for future racers. So many of us came from there - JG, Glenn, Mitch, AG, myself and Mason ...

This is exactly what I did, but I bought a different car to compete with. I didn't use my street car to race.
I found out about NASA Pro Racing/AI after going to Sonoma, Ca on business. I was staying the weekend due to business in the bay area and planned on going out to Griggs Racing/Infineon raceway to watch the NASA races with Bruce and John Griggs. I happened to call Adam G. to shoot the crap and low and behold Adam was in the bay area as well and was staying the weekend to spend time with his sister. So I asked if Adam G. and his sister wanted to come out as well. I ended up getting a ride from a really nice guy (Hal Massey) in a Griggs Street car in the HPDE 3 run group, I believe Adam did as well. This was the start for me to acquire a dedicated race car and to look up the local NASA region.



The TT positions NASA in an ideal position to provide a bridge between DE and full blown racing, ...

I would also agree with this. This should be a great marketing focus for NASA with the younger tuner crowd.



I have to agree with Todd on who pays for what - NASA TX already has brochures covering all racing classes, but unless there is already a national AI/CMC brochure available to us, if we want to do something over and above the generic NASA brochure to help attract more drivers to AI/CMC, then perhaps we should take care of that ourselves? I'm sure NASA TX won't mind helping distribute our flyers if we are doing the same for them?

This I do not agree with, NASA TX should handle this expense as they reap the benefits of more people in the different classes. We can carry the flyers to car clubs, events and etc. We can be the ambassador for the series and not the sponsors. I think our fearless leaders should approach NASA Texas before suggesting that the racers pay for anything. Don't assume anything! ;-)

[mitchntx]

OK ... so there is 8 or 10 of us ...

How many participants go through the various DE venues in Texas in a given year, much less the last 5? 200?, 300? 500? 1500?

VERY low percentage.

DEs are not the racers gene pool ...

[GlennCMC70]

i came for the HPDE route. when i decided to go w-2w, i was worried my lack of experience would be a problem. little did i know that my 6 years of track time was far more than most. it was shocking. my point being that guys who come from the HPDE route are coming from driving in a manner that keeps the car undamaged for the most part. those lessons taught to HPDE guys, makes them good racers.
i learned of AI/CMC from a article in Hot Rod Magazine. got on the net, searched the www looking for a date around the time i would be in Arizona w/ family. learned of the local region and found a schedule. point is, i ran Cresson many times that year and never heard of AI/CMC from any locals. there was no info anywhere. had i known, i would have been racing much sooner. there is a total lack of exposure just w/in the HPDE/open track/road racing crowd. i was in a fairly large group of guys who all owned and open tracked F-bodies (me, Mitch, Nick, James, Chris Burton, Kevin Turner, Chuck Beuler, and a few more i'm leaving out. none of us had heard about AI/CMC. all of those w/ the exception of 2 have collected points in CMC, and have all come from the HPDE world. 1 of the other 2 is active in TT(U). until we learn to get the info out to those who have an interest in open tracking (higher % chance of setting the hook) we dont need to worry about many of the other venues.
so how do we inform those who frequent HPDE events to ensure they know about us w/out offending the host org who is hosting the event? not sure. but there has to be an answer. do we do exhibition races @ these events? possibly. would that take way from our wallets? yes. we need to work a deal w/ those orgs to get track time in exchange for instructing, or whatever they need for the weekend. it will cost us some time, money and effort. this could be done during non-racing months (off season and gaps in the schedule). Darin has already done this once for us. it didnt work out. i think it could though. race reports will help. we intend to continue w/ this at the AI/CMC TX level. there are also the local racer mags you pick up @ the local speed shops (like SpeedTek - they have a few on the counter for free. NASA TX should ask to put up a flyer stand in these places - something along the lines of a "Thrifty Nickel " stand. we are all spread out enough that these could be looked at my us racers w/ no problems. i frequent allot of these shops anyways.
point is, there is something we can do. we have the 2006 dues left over. lets put that money to work. market that AI/CMC 2005/6 Year in Review CD. mail afew off to major mags as freebies. get thier intrest. get them on our side. send them a race report w/ it and ask it to be ran.

long post for me. off to eat dinner. flame away.

[Nick]

Regarding handout brochures/pamphlets:

If NASA pays for it, we pay for it somehow. Entry fees, membership, comp license...

From another angle..
Other racers shouldn't pay increased fees to market AI/CMC. Does every race group get its own marketing material?
NASA must divide its marketing energy and money amoung many race groups. We can focus on AI/CMC.

If we want something we'll be happy with we need to do it ourselves. If we let NASA handle it, we may not be satisfied with the result... and we still had to pay for it.

[AI#97]

Since NONE of the money has been spent out of the fund, can it just cover our dues for this year?

:lol:

[GlennCMC70]

i dont have a problem w/ that. but what of those who did pay and aint racnig this year?

[Todd Covini]

Good discussion and a few clarifications:

1) NASA TX really is concentrating on the base business right now. Diana and Becka are gone and they need someone to mind the day to day business now. This will be worked out soon enough, but needs to be way ahead of marketing efforts y'all are talking of. Infrastucture comes first.

2) Taking an AI/CMC car to another event, to another shop, to a dyno, to a gas station, to anywhere, usually generates interest. Just tonight at the dyno, Rob and I had a handful of folks asking questions, info, next event, hungry for info. If we (AI/CMC) are armed with materials for OUR series then we can all truly become ambassadors of the series. $50 out of the series fund will pay for a lot of toner and I'll gladly print up a bunch of flyers or even business cards for everyone in the series to be able to hand out! I'd much rather NASA Texas concentrate on base business than try to worry about recruiting new AI/CMC folks (who they refer to us anyway once the detailed questions start coming.

3) New year...new series dues payments. We've got to accumulate wealth in order to grow the series!

4) 3 AI/CMC racers trying to quit smoking...greaaat....should make for some lively discussions at the driver's meeting! :roll: :lol: (Al, Glenn...this could be a great developmental assignment for you!)

-=- Todd

[Fbody383]

As the guy watching from the sidelines and working to get a car in the fray here's my $0.02.

To a person, everyone I've talked to verbally or electronically has put forth more than a little effort to answer my questions. Even the "bad blood" that spills over now and then on the forums has, in most cases, enough hints of sarcasm and competition to come across as reasonable.

That being said, it wasn't easy finding you guys. I've been autocrossing since 1988, longtime reader of R&T and Autoweek and didn't really notice NASA and thus AI/CMC until a Driver's Edge event. I knew about SCCA from TAMSCC and other coverage. I like the idea of CMC over A-Sedan and, so far, have found the people more to my liking.

I agree the cars help sell the series. Somebody put several at a vacation bible school this past summer and they were a hit.

Flyers at your doctor, dentist, local watering hole, auto-parts place, etc. would all help promote visibility.

If somebody tells me how to get an 2007 AI/CMC T-shirt, I'll put the check in the mail.

[NASA13]

That being said, it wasn't easy finding you guys.



I can vouch for that. I autocrossed and raced karts for years before Morgan told Jeff Brooks and I about CMC/AI. I consider myself a pretty active enthusiast and I had no idea that we existed.
When Morgan told me about the series I immediately started looking for a car and found one in the off season and was racing the first race the next year.
There are lots of guys like me out there that are just autocrossing because they didnt know there was a reasonable, affordable road racing series in texas.

[AllZWay]

[quote=Fbody383]
There are lots of guys like me out there that are just autocrossing because they didnt know there was a reasonable, affordable road racing series in texas.

And like me.... I first heard about CMC/AI from something I read and at the time it was only on the West Coast. I did a little research about then, but it was not in Texas at the time.

I even ran a Nasa event doing DE and CMC/AI didn't have cars here in Texas.

I decided to go racing as the DE's got a little on the boring side. The only option was dirt and thus went that direction for a few years and did less and less DE's. Of course CMC/AI started growing in Texas just after I bought the dirt track car.

[Todd Covini]

We should require AICMCTEXAS.com decals as part of our regional decal package on all AICMC cars.

This would be just one small step toward getting the word out and making information about the series available.

[AI#97]

As the guy watching from the sidelines and working to get a car in the fray here's my $0.02.

To a person, everyone I've talked to verbally or electronically has put forth more than a little effort to answer my questions. Even the "bad blood" that spills over now and then on the forums has, in most cases, enough hints of sarcasm and competition to come across as reasonable.

That being said, it wasn't easy finding you guys. I've been autocrossing since 1988, longtime reader of R&T and Autoweek and didn't really notice NASA and thus AI/CMC until a Driver's Edge event. I knew about SCCA from TAMSCC and other coverage. I like the idea of CMC over A-Sedan and, so far, have found the people more to my liking.

I agree the cars help sell the series. Somebody put several at a vacation bible school this past summer and they were a hit.

Flyers at your doctor, dentist, local watering hole, auto-parts place, etc. would all help promote visibility.

If somebody tells me how to get an 2007 AI/CMC T-shirt, I'll put the check in the mail.


NASATX had 4 cars at the Unique Performance event back in October, Porsche, Vette, AI mustang and CMC Mustang along with Jay's 35' trailer and banners...oh, and a legends car. Let's just say that the legends guy was busy answering questions ALL day....the other 4 of us sat around and got sunburned while trying to keep the dilinquent kids out of our cars. There were supposedly 12-15k people passing through that event....

This is NASCRAP territory gang. :(

[Mike Bell]

Whatsammatta? Nobody bought into your "you outta run AI" story? Look, do me a favor Matt and go find that other sandbox you keep spewing about. Take your stick and stir over there. I'm sick of it here.

<<toned down>>

[mitchntx]

Whatsammatta? Nobody bought into your "you outta run AI" story? Look, do me a favor Matt and go find that other sandbox you keep spewing about. Take your stick and stir over there. I'm sick of it here.

<<toned down>> :roll:

Wow! don't hold back, Mike ... let it go, brother. Tell us how you REALLY feel. 8)

My first exposure to CMC was ... ~2001 when NASA TX came to MSR-C. Glenn, James, Kevin, Chuck, Chris and me all ran one of the first events Jay and Shannon held, I think. This was way back when Kevin Williams was race director for NASA-Tx.

This was also the weekend Jay saved Andy Baritchi from being murdered and Glenn from a life sentence in Huntsville.

Good times ... 8)

[AI#97]

Whatsammatta? Nobody bought into your "you outta run AI" story? Look, do me a favor Matt and go find that other sandbox you keep spewing about. Take your stick and stir over there. I'm sick of it here.

<<tone down>>:


Wow Mike, do you need a cigarette? I guess I will keep these things in mind next time I am on track with you.....but don't see anywhere in my last post that was negative. just filling in what NASATX did, and the lack of response our group got from the crowd.... Nicorette might be your friend.....?

[donovan]

Matt White,

Free Tip: Before you look into the sponsor stuff you mentioned in another thread you should maybe look into Carroll Smith and Ross Bentley’s books. Both of them have good sections about how to be a respectful professional racecar driver on and off the track.

It will do wonders with your future communication with your sponsors, racers and race organizations; it will also teach you to be humble if you either win or lose and help you get the respect of your fellow drivers, directors and race organizations.

DD

[j3ffbrooks]

Can I get an "AMEN!".....

[Adam Ginsberg]

Amen.

[Mike Bell]

Whatsammatta? Nobody bought into your "you outta run AI" story? Look, do me a favor Matt and go find that other sandbox you keep spewing about. Take your stick and stir over there. I'm sick of it here.

<<toned down>>


Wow Mike, do you need a cigarette? I guess I will keep these things in mind next time I am on track with you.....but don't see anywhere in my last post that was negative. just filling in what NASATX did, and the lack of response our group got from the crowd.... Nicorette might be your friend.....?

I shouldn't have blasted you in public Matt - I apologize for that.

[David Love AI27]

Whatsammatta? Nobody bought into your "you outta run AI" story? Look, do me a favor Matt and go find that other sandbox you keep spewing about. Take your stick and stir over there. I'm sick of it here.

<<toned down>>:


Wow Mike, do you need a cigarette? I guess I will keep these things in mind next time I am on track with you.....but don't see anywhere in my last post that was negative. just filling in what NASATX did, and the lack of response our group got from the crowd.... Nicorette might be your friend.....?

I shouldn't have blasted you in public Matt - I apologize for that.

Just when I start to respect you.... you go and say your sorry... LOL

Signed, TWEEK

Mmkay

[donovan]

Whatsammatta? Nobody bought into your "you outta run AI" story? Look, do me a favor Matt and go find that other sandbox you keep spewing about. Take your stick and stir over there. I'm sick of it here.

<<toned down>>


Wow Mike, do you need a cigarette? I guess I will keep these things in mind next time I am on track with you.....but don't see anywhere in my last post that was negative. just filling in what NASATX did, and the lack of response our group got from the crowd.... Nicorette might be your friend.....?

I shouldn't have blasted you in public Matt - I apologize for that.

Someone was bound to do it Mike, you said what a bunch of others wanted to say, and I respect you for apologizing.

What Matt does not realize is that it was not that post of his that triggered you. It was that post and the 15 before it...

Anyway, enough with that, moving along.

DD

[cjlmlml]

Ok,

I have bit my tongue long enough.


If you are going to come on this board and be an ass, you are not welcome here .

We do not need that crap.

I dont want to hear anymore bs apologies, oh I got carried away.

And then you do the same thing 5 more times.

Just do the right thing the first time.


You guys know exactly what I am talking about.

The good natured ribbing on each other is fine, and encouraged, and funny.

Personal attacks are not.

Its really not that difficult. Play nice.

[Mike Bell]

I keep messing up so BAN ME.

[Al Fernandez]

Can't ban you Mike, you're entirely too funny. Now what in the hell are you doing that you're NOT here at the track? Same goes for the rest of you reading this this weekend!!!

Turns out the hotel has free internet and I needed the laptop to charge my cell. Man, there are a bunch of boys camping right now that are just about ready to walk into their tow trucks and let them idle all night...its freaking cold out there!!!

[jeffburch]

It's 23 degrees here this morning. That my friends is a HARD freeze.
Why are we (ya'll) racing in the winter?

The "no use of antifreeze" thing would cause me a problem.

ps
35 this morning when ya'll rolled outta your tents hehe
http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/KLBX.html

jb


Today: Partly cloudy, with a high near 56. East wind between 5 and 10 mph.

Tonight: Partly cloudy, with a low around 39. East wind around 5 mph becoming calm.

Sunday: Partly cloudy, with a high near 66. South wind around 5 mph.

Sunday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 46. Southeast wind around 5 mph.

[Al Fernandez]

Yeah, fair enough Jeff ...when I walked out of the hotel and there was ice on Todd's truck I was really glad I wasnt camping! :D

[oz98cobra]

Very good point JB - with only 6 rounds this year, why is the first round in the middle of winter!?

At a DE event at Cresson on Saturday morning, there was more than one instructor who could not drive the first couple sessions because their race cars and/or tires do not work when temps are below freezing!

[GlennCMC70]

yep, w/ temps in the 30's sat, my toyos only got to 120 degrees. they dont stick at all at that temp.

[Todd Covini]

Agreed. Cold temps sure made the warm-up lap a real challenge. :roll:

[rpoz27]

I had to scrape ice off the windows of Martin's BMW...the outside AND the inside. Do you know how hard it is to squeeze through 2 seats and the main hoop with a horizontal bar and a diagonal bar to get to the rear window in that car? I thought he was going to have to get y'all to help him drag me out. :?

[NASA13]

Agreed. Cold temps sure made the warm-up lap a real challenge. :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Seems to me you have had trouble with the warm up lap in the past too.
Anyone have some video?
Maybe Todd will be the new Spinny Mcginny???hmmm
Spinny kinda rhymes with Covini but Ginsberg will always be Spinny to me.

[y5e06]

Hooooray, Beer! er, um I mean
Hooooray, Spins! (I'm done w/ 'em for myself by the way)
+1 finishing position for me. Thanks, Todd


Agreed. Cold temps sure made the warm-up lap a real challenge. :roll:

[jeffburch]

Is there any leniency in the no antifreeze rule?




jb

[oz98cobra]

Is there any leniency in the no antifreeze rule?

jb

Don't think so - only thing we can do is use the old warm light under the hood trick - provided a power source is available of course?

[jeffburch]

Uuuuuhhh Beavis, if I left early Sat morn to the track, the car woulda been out in it all nite.
Only solution was antifreeze, if it wasn't in the garage.
My extension cord ain't THAT long.

jb

[Rob Liebbe]

It is interesting that other classes (Spec Miata, HPDE, ETC.) are allowed to run antifreeze. If the intent of the rule is that an antifreeze spill will create a hard mess to clean up, shouldn't that apply to all? I would support a rule change. Anyone else?

[marshall_mosty]

Uuuuuhhh Beavis, if I left early Sat morn to the track, the car woulda been out in it all nite.
Only solution was antifreeze, if it wasn't in the garage.
My extension cord ain't THAT long.
jb

2 extension cords with a good 100W bulb. Works unless it is a HARD freeze.

[mitchntx]

What about in transit?

This sounds like another one of them SoCal rules ...
I wonder what the guys in The RM or MW region do ...

[jeffburch]

I thought I heard about a tech urination contest over a miata with green under the radcap in '05.

jb

ps
"freeze plug" is a misnomer.
Those holes were for letting the sand out after casting.
They don't always work for their secondary purpose.

[Rob Liebbe]

Transit damage - been there - done that. Blew two freeze plugs out of a Ford 302 powered car that I trailered from Texas to Chicago when I moved there. It was 80 degrees when I left Dallas, and 13 degrees when I arrived in Chicago. 185 bucks to change the freeze plugs out.

[Todd Covini]

Rob...that wasn't in your Mustang, was it?
I don't think any of those race-mockup show cars have engines in them, do they!?! :wink:

-=- T

[oz98cobra]

Spec Miata's can not use anti-freeze - I think you will find that all racing classes prohibit the use of anti-freeze.

TT and HPDE allow it because the chances of them hitting each other and causing a coolant spill on track is very small compared to wheel to wheel racing - and of course it is completely impractical to ban anti-freeze from HPDE cars.