Camber

I was running testing last weekend at TWS and someone pointed out I might be running too much camber... 3 degrees neg... the comment was that I should measure the heat across the tire (something I alread knew) but I was concerned that since TWS has long high speed straights, it would build more heat on the insides due to the type of track... When I take out too much of the camber to evenout the heat on the insides it adds push on the tighter corners... I am well aware of using overall tire temps to adjust the suspension but isn't there a trade off somewhere in this theory???

For the past 3 years I have basically just checked tire pressures and "run what I brung" but I want to step up my game in 09 and need LOTS of help... When I make adjustments at the track I get 1 of two responses: "what the hell did you do" from Jason and lots of "wwwhhhhooo, what thel hell did I do" from me...

Nobody want to give up information to someone and then get beat by them so if you don't want to help... cool... just don't mislead me...

thanks

spring rate dictates how much camber you need. if you have monster spring rates, you dont need alot of camber. if you have low spring rates you will need more. if you have uneven tire temps, adjust the camber to help along w/ tire pressures. if the car isnt balanced after this, do what you need to get it balanced (w/out changing camber!). tune out the push in this case w/ stiffer rear springs, or whatever it takes.

the goal is to get max tire contact patch on the front mid corner and under braking. 10 degrees across the face of the tire is an obtainable goal. a camber change will reqiure a tire pressure change if what you had was optimum before the camber change. every single point of adjustment affects every other point of adjustment. every change affects balance.

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

spring rate dictates how much camber you need. if you have monster spring rates, you dont need alot of camber. if you have low spring rates you will need more. if you have uneven tire temps, adjust the camber to help along w/ tire pressures. if the car isnt balanced after this, do what you need to get it balanced (w/out changing camber!). tune out the push in this case w/ stiffer rear springs, or whatever it takes.

the goal is to get max tire contact patch on the front mid corner and under braking. 10 degrees across the face of the tire is an obtainable goal. a camber change will reqiure a tire pressure change if what you had was optimum before the camber change. every single point of adjustment affects every other point of adjustment. every change affects balance.

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That matches my problem... 3 years ago... I had 275s in the rear and you or Mitch (edited to include him cuz I don't wanna start any sh!t) gave/sold (don't remember) me some 175s because when I started I felt the car was too loose... Now that my skills have improved :shock: I think I can add spring, maybe 225 for starters...

Thanks, hope I don't kick your ass, next time I'm on the track... LOL :roll:

and thats matches my experiance. when i built the car i had 175's on it and it was OK. as your ability improves, so must your car set-up. i could put a total rookie novice in any fast CMC car and it would scare the crap out of them - too loose! i started w/ 175's, and now i'm looking at 275's. all that w/ no front rate change.

Wayne wrote me a whole book on this subject. I had no idea there was so much to it. No only do you have to learn to drive, learn to drive door handle to door handle, but then you have to have a PHD to set up the car. After Hallett I added 1/2" shims to the front tires and at TWS clockwise the car was about as good as any car on the track (ask Rob he drove mine and Glen's). We were down on power about 27 ft. lbs. of tq. but the car handled perfect. I don't see how it could have been much better. In the last race on Sunday Jay was catching the front three (in fact he caught Glenn and surprised the $hit out of him)! Then we go to ECR and it is is back to pushing like a dump truck. I wish I was rich. I don't want to work on the car or set it up. I just want to arrive and drive.......kinda the deal Jay has!!!!!


JJ

David, I think TWS would give you an accurate tire reading even w/ the long straights.
Run the car all out and then duck into the pits after Larry, Moe, Curley for a quick reading. The front straight shouldn't effect (or affect) it. :wink:

I used to test my ITS car at TWS a bunch. Although it is not as much fun to drive, using the 1.8 mile version is a better test track in my opinion. If for no other reason, a lap is much less time so you can get more laps in to warm and test the car with frequent pit stops for measurements. In either case, just keep in mind the left handers are the major turns on the track.

Personally, I don't think 3 deg camber is too much on a 3rd gen. I'm still playing with my setup, but I am currently running 3.5 per side. Of course so many other things enter that equation like castor, springs, toe....

Man, I'm jealous. I have not been to the track since EC. I wanna go play...

Jeff

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Originally Posted by Wirtz

I used to test my ITS car at TWS a bunch. Although it is not as much fun to drive, using the 1.8 mile version is a better test track in my opinion. If for no other reason, a lap is much less time so you can get more laps in to warm and test the car with frequent pit stops for measurements. In either case, just keep in mind the left handers are the major turns on the track.

Personally, I don't think 3 deg camber is too much on a 3rd gen. I'm still playing with my setup, but I am currently running 3.5 per side. Of course so many other things enter that equation like castor, springs, toe....

Man, I'm jealous. I have not been to the track since EC. I wanna go play...

Jeff

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Thanks, I'm really feeling better about my setup... With Misti's motorsports club and TDE, I am at TWS at least once a month and most months 2 times... now you know why I beg for used tires... used up new set on sunday with Jason and I running the car a total of 8 sessions on Sunday (reminds me, I need to change the oil)... 6 year old Goodyears don't last too long if you push em hard...