Dyno procedure

What is the official rule and thoughts about dyno compliance checks at the event? If a random dyno happens (and the competitor pops over), is the competitor held accountable for the dyno numbers at the track or does he have the ability to have his hood sealed and then return to the shop that originally did the dyno?

My concern is over variations in different dyno's throughout TX. I personally thought the numbers at the Dallas dyno day seemed a little low and then Dave mentioned he thought the Houston dyno numbers were a little low. In no way do I feel there is anything shady going on but I want everyone to be on the same page.

On the flip side it would be pretty low for someone to be able to research and find a dyno that historically reads low to use as their annual dyno.

The rules don't address this issue:
3.9 Dynamometer Certification
All participants who wish to compile season points must have a dynamometer certification report prior to the start of the race or make arrangements to have a dyno test performed immediately after the race. The dynamometer certification report will consist of two parts: a completed CMC Dyno Spec Sheet and Dyno Sheet Readout Graphs. These forms must be kept with the vehicle's logbook and be ready to present to any official. The CMC Dyno Spec Sheet includes instructions for performing the official dynamometer inspection, which must be followed in order for the dyno report to be valid. The Dyno Spec Sheet is available on the CMC website.
3.10 Inspection and Testing
NASA tech inspectors and CMC Officials have the right to inspect anything in sight at any time the vehicle is at the track. NASA tech inspectors and CMC Officials have the right to request disassembly or any other procedure required to verify vehicle compliance with these rules including a dynamometer re-certification. The CMC Official may require that a CMC Official or designee be present for any dynamometer re-certification.

Before handing out a DQ at a regional event as a result of a compliance check on a dyno that was not the dyno the car was certified on for the season, I'll allow them to re-test on the dyno they did certify on...... with a few exceptions.
The dyno must be one open for use by any paying customer.
The amount of HP/TQ over the limit will determin if a re-test is warrented. If the car is... say... 15hp over - forget it. If its 5, then likely.

None of this is set in stone and at anytime the "the tool at the track is the one that counts" default rule can kick in. If you feel unsure of the dyno your certified on, go to another dyno. I tested 7 times in 2006. All this as a result of a crap dyno.

It is up to you to push it to the edge. We are at the mercy of the scales, rulers, and stopwatches at the track, that includes the dyno as well.

Wow ... it's like you are reading my mind. I was just thinking about this ...

Here are my thoughts ...

If there is a dyno at the track and NASA decides to check, then NASA should foot the bill.

If the cars goes over the limit as it's outlined in the chart ... that is the power to weight ratio ... then the hood, port, whatever is sealed.

The car then goes back to the dyno where the car certified. The visit has to happen in a reasonable amount of time ... say 10 days.

If the car dynos legal, NASA picks up the tab.

If the car busts out, then the owner/driver picks up the tab for the 2nd pull and reimburses NASA for the first one.

Excellent feedback, thanks.
I see the dyno similar to the scales as you can push the limit as close as you want. Difference being the scales are free and the dyno isn't.

I completely agree in that if you are 10-15 hp over, thats the end. I was concerned in readings that were 1-3 hp off that could be a difference in 1% change of the total number.

I was also comparing this to Nationals. Not degrading regional events but thinking if you attend Nationals you need to budget an additional $100 to certify on their dyno to keep numbers 110% legit wrt altitude, humidity, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by michaelmosty

Excellent feedback, thanks.
I see the dyno similar to the scales as you can push the limit as close as you want. Difference being the scales are free and the dyno isn't.

I completely agree in that if you are 10-15 hp over, thats the end. I was concerned in readings that were 1-3 hp off that could be a difference in 1% change of the total number.

I was also comparing this to Nationals. Not degrading regional events but thinking if you attend Nationals you need to budget an additional $100 to certify on their dyno to keep numbers 110% legit wrt altitude, humidity, etc.

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Problem is, there is never enough time at Nats from the time the dyno shows up till cars start getting checked for everyone who needs to get on it to do so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

Wow ... it's like you are reading my mind. I was just thinking about this ...

Here are my thoughts ...

If there is a dyno at the track and NASA decides to check, then NASA should foot the bill.

If the cars goes over the limit as it's outlined in the chart ... that is the power to weight ratio ... then the hood, port, whatever is sealed.

The car then goes back to the dyno where the car certified. The visit has to happen in a reasonable amount of time ... say 10 days.

If the car dynos legal, NASA picks up the tab.

If the car busts out, then the owner/driver picks up the tab for the 2nd pull and reimburses NASA for the first one.

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That makes way too much sense :wink: :wink:

Counter point (to keep discussion going):
If there is a dyno at the track then that may be used as the official measurement instrument, same as scales. The rules already give the driver a 7hp comfort zone. If the driver chooses to soak some of that up to gain advantage, then they also must be held responsible for the increased risk of breaking out.

If the dyno at the track was as simple as and as inexpensive as rolling across the scales, then I don't think this would be an issue.

And if there is a potential 15hp difference between dynos, as the article refenced elsewhere says and as suspicions indicate on local dynos, then your loagic says that CMC1 cars should not certify at anything above 222/292 if your car is right at the weight limit and CMC2 at no more than 252/302.

So the bigger question now becomes ... what's the point of a dyno cert at all?

We're being held to a moving standard that is far from standardized. It appears physics just won't allow it.


Just thinking outloud ....

How about each racer be charged a $30 "parity fee" that is attached to their comp license and the dyno cert requirement is abolished.

That money is ear-marked for those magic pucks NASA has been experiemnting with and use the data they log as the measuring stick.

If some one's acceleration rate is higher than the group, then he/she gets a closer look ... maybe send them to the track's dyno right then and there.

I would gladly pay an extra $30 ... or even $50 a year to keep from spending hundreds in transport and dyno fees once a year.

And I don't see how that data logger can be any less reliable than a dyno's data.

Al, if the dyno is available for free (like the scales) then I would dyno at the track at every event. This just isn't the case.

On the flip side, what if the dyno at the track is the "official" dyno for the weekend and it happens to read higher than every other dyno in TX. Would it still be a DQ?

There needs to be a clear understanding of the rules expectations and so far we have two different opinions.

I kind of like Mitch's idea.

A $50 yearly dyno cost me a heck of lot more than $50, because of fuel and time to haul 100+ miles to get it done.

It seems those magic pucks are as close to being real as a dyno might be.