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Coming through T3 I was right behind Jeremy and we were on the inside of Steve. Everyone checked up and I cut left to avoid Steve. My focus was on the people in front of me and to make sure nobody ran into the back of me.
Never once did I contemplate or even think about gaining a position during the incident. My focus was getting through cleanly.
We made it past Frank and everyone started back as normal.
This is a great conversation about the rules and respect of NASA. Now this thread is making me proud... :P
Accident avoidence sometimes results in passing, and though not wrong by the rulebook, this is gentlemans racing... The difference here is simply the fact that we could not see where we were going, so in essence the entire track was blocked... Maybe I'm wrong here????? I am just thankful for the quick reflexes of all drivers in this group. It could have been a nasty moment!
Round of applause for Group 4....... *glad group 7 wasn't mixed in*
For the life of me I couldn't remember what happened, and everyone was checking out after the smoke, so I followed... as it occured my focus was on the guy in front of me, and the train behind me... I sure as hell didn't want to find a car with my front bumper, but Lemons experience taught me to keep an eye out for the guys behind that maybe looking elsewhere... I didn't mean to make an unsafe pass, nor was any pass in that situation intentional to gain a spot. I put two off trying to give space for everyone else to bunch up... The entire focus was the safety of the guys around me. Steve, I owe ya one...
Again, well done Group 4!
For the record this makes me smile :lol: :lol: :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmosty
Well, there is some ambiguity to JWL's statement...If I watch a car going into the tire wall...uh, yeah, I am going to pass him so what do you do...right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien
The SAFE assumption is if you are behind a car that is leaving the surface entirely, or has 2 or 4 wheels off and MIGHT come back on track and there is a waving yellow at that station, the SAFE assumption, and one that is defensible if you are passed by someone behind you is to slow the car and not pass the Yahoo in front of you. If you were to pass, you best have a darn good explanation that it was safer to do so than staying behind the yahoo that was out of control. When making split decisions on track, your VERY FIRST thought should be for the safety of you, the other drivers and any track workers that might be affected. You will always have a defensible position in the IRB with that mindset instead of " I thought it was ok".
To add to Mitch's second scenario, and according to Clifton's rules in the driver's meeting, and NOT the CCR...The wave back by for position should not have occured till start finish. The CCR reads "in sight" and not perpendicular....so paying attention in the driver's meeting with slight changes to yellow and red cross flags is very important.
I also think everyone should be briefed on Clifton's speech about on track pace in the area of the red cross flag and EV's on track. 50% or get out your check book. The pace around Frank's incident with EV's on track was well more than 50% for some.... Just beware of Clifton! He is VERY serious about that.
Michael, I appreciate your documenting what you recall and the thought process. Good insight ...Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmosty
More good insight ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Gunter
I was at point of the CMC classes when it happened and basically just held my line going into the smoke so that the guy behind me could react and avoid.
Post incident, I ran at about 80% till I could CLEARLY see there was no flag at S/F and then ramped it back up. And did this every lap while the section of track was under yellow flag.
So, is that meeting the expectation? Too conservative? Too aggressive?
I did notice it allowed the field immediately behind me to really bunch up prior to the S/F line and then it looked like the Oklahoma land rush post S/F.
When I passed Jeremiah, I never saw him after I passed him. The only way I knew he was still on track was because I heard him coming up beside me. I then waived him by.
My take away ...
Should have waited till after the S/F (next station not showing a yellow to give JK his position back)
My overtaking him was indeed a violation unless I could have conviced an official that it was "accident avoidance".
Accident avoidance, whether it be for a vehicle involved or simply someone checking up to avoid a vehicle involved puts a driver at risk of losing track position.
Did I miss the red cross flag? I only recall seeing it at S/F and it was AFTER I came through T3 with EVs at track out.Quote:
Originally Posted by AI#97
Same here; Chuck was 1 car length ahead, Al about 3... twice in my video you can't see either one of them in the smoke and I knew the pack was coming hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmosty
My thought was to stay track left, 1/2ish speed and gun it at the open CW station.
Certainly had the potential to be a 25 car "fog pile up."
I recall seeing it at T2 once the EV was on scene with Frank. It was also at S/F....Once frank was out of the car and the EV pulled behind the tire wall, I think the cross came down and the yellow was still up.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Either way, if the EV was near the track and CW's are out in harm's way, I am backing it down. There is most likely a yellow out so if you are behind me, be ready to slow down a bunch. I don't ever want a hurt CW on my conscience for life.
I feel the same way and did back WAY off the pace. But "backing off" is such a subjective term.Quote:
Originally Posted by AI#97
Clearly, as outlined in Glenn's post, if you back off and I don't back off as much, I can legally pass you under yellow under the blanket of accident avoidance.
I don't like it, I think its unsafe, but it appears to be the consensus. And I will follow the rules the group decides to follow.
Do you think someone in TX would deliberately make a pass on someone under yellow thinking they could use an excuse as accident avoidance?Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
If that is the case then I think a talk would be in order (with that person) regarding endangering the safety of fellow drivers.