You can have all my files. I think this is a good idea.
JJ
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You can have all my files. I think this is a good idea.
JJ
I'm out.
All my competitors need to know is if I'm legal.
The health of my motor as outlined on a dyno sheet will let my competitors know just how hard he can run me and then possibly lead to some high risk, on track maneuvers.
Raise your hands ... how many here have heard/read about Francis' down on power woes and made a passing decision based upon that?
when i pass a car, the last thing that is a factor is "what was his dyno numbers?"
at this point i dont know who is making what and i have all of the dyno sheets now.
whether or not i pass a car is only based upon what i see on track and nothing more.
all i'm asking for is a digital copy of what you are already giving me. right now, i have to lay one sheet of paper over another to see if things are fair. then its a judgement call due to differing scales of the graph. in digital format i can import the data to the same graph.
if you dont want this stuff made public, i can deal w/ that. but help me ensure the platforms are fair.
Let me guess where the resistance is from.
The next step will be a RFID in the driver instead of the car :lol:
only for tracking those troublemakers who dont race. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffburch
LOL.. he is still a majority owner in a race car, for at least another week. :roll: (not to his liking, I'm sure). :(Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCMC70
I didn't say you said it out loud in your helmet, but someone who is zealous about that $2 medal will do his homework.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCMC70
And the data is factored in, conciously or subconciously, while on the track.
Its no different than factoring in those drivers who are more timid than others. As a driver, you realize it on some level and make decisions based upon that realization.
For years, people knew that if they put a fender on me I'd move over. I recall Al saying the same thing.
Knowing a competitors weaknesses and tendencies is part of race craft.
That's for damn sure. Mitch will slam the door!Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
JJ
After you get bullied enough, you say enough is enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowBolt
I suggest this entire section be rewritten.Quote:
3.9 Dynamometer Certification
All participants who wish to compile season points must submit a certified dynamometer report prior to the start of the race or make arrangements to have a dyno test performed immediately after the race. The dynamometer inspection will consist of two parts, a completed CMC Dyno Spec Sheet and Dyno Sheet Readout Graphs. All pages must be signed and dated by the dynamometer operator performing the tests. These forms must be kept with the vehicle's logbook and be ready to present to any official. The CMC Dyno Spec Sheet includes instructions for performing the official dynamometer inspection, which must be followed in order for the dyno inspection to be valid. The Dyno Spec Sheet is available on the CMC website or from the CMC Chief Director, see section 10.
What is a "Dynamometer report"? That and "Body Contact Report" is the only instance in all the CMC rules that this term is used.
I know what Glenn thinks it is, but the rule explicitly says what has to be turned in ... just a "report".
In fact, the passage goes on to say
No where does it say the graph HAS to be turned in, just kept with teh logbook. I'm assuming MY dyno graph with MY logbook. The way its written, it could meean Everyone's dyno graph with Glenn's logbook.Quote:
These forms must be kept with the vehicle's logbook and be ready to present to any official.
Again the ONLY thing in the rules that HAS to be turned in is a "report" and that is undefined.
Also ...
That tells me if I don't care about season points, a dyno isn't necessary.Quote:
All participants who wish to compile season points
And that's backed up here ...
If dyno graphs are required ... say soQuote:
3.7 New Drivers/New Model Cars
The CMC Chief Director may allow a new competitor or competitor in a new model car to enter as a “Fun Run” with a car not in complete compliance with CMC Rules. Competitors with non-compliant cars may not collect points.
If dyno graphs are required to be submitted to an official ... say so.
If dyno graphs are required to be submitted both in hard copy and electronic form ... say so.
If its not in the rules, don't expect it.
Sorry, i dont know of any other way of saying it. thats the most absurd thing i've read so far today. there have been plenty of cars on track w/ us all that make less or more power than a CMC car. the power that a car makes (as in peak or the dyno graph) has no factor in my decision to pass them or not. i've passed plenty of AI car w/ a 100hp advantage and i've been passed by miatas w/ a 100+ hp disadvantage.
when i say i dont know each of your dyno numbers, i am 100% positive that is the way i mean it. it is not a factor at all.
but! if you think it is a factor (even subconciously) why allow the directors to be the only ones who see this data? you have to race at least one of them for now and both in the future. why allow us that so called "advantage"? why not level the playing field?
at this point i do not think there is any downside to any of this.
all i'm asking for is a easier way for the directors to do what EVERYONE here wants us to do. keep informed about all platforms and identify unfair advantages one platform has over another.
just today Matt commented that its crazy that it took 2 years to get where we are w/ 3rd gens and CMC-2. it takes time and data collection is key. if we are allowed to compile this data now, before we need it, the reaction is faster when it comes time to use it.
lets say at MSR-C 2010 we as directors agree to look into the LS1 cars to see if they are at a disadvantage w/ regards to power under the curve. the only way to do that is to look at dyno curves. if i have no data, then i have to assume the LS1 drivers are just complaining as each driver does about thier own platform. they may have a valid case, but w/ out data to use, i cant help them. since everyone has already dyno'ed for the year and none of us have the digital files we need to do the compairison, we will now have to wait till the following year to attempt to gather this data in hope of proving/disproving the LS1 drivers claims.