Raise your hand if you've actually read the 2010 CCR

I will say that I have not read revision 6 of the 2010 CCR.

I will also say that I have never like the way the passing rules are written. I approach them with an extra dose of conservatism in the name of safety and clean racing.

I will say that hiding behind or justifying aggressive, or dangerous, or stupid, or whatever you want to call it behavior on track by use of rules that are questionable needs to be stopped immediately. There is too much risk of car damage, ruined weekends, ruined seasons, ruined frienships, ruined series, personal injury and death for this to continue. Obviously, there are those that are correct per the rules. Sometimes the rules need to be evaluated. I think we are at that point in time. We, meaning everyone on both sides of this argument, need to see immediate prgoress or we will lose more than we can ever regain.

"Note: This rule may be superseded by class specific rules."

There it is in 25.4.3....now go read my post in Al's apology.

-=- Todd

And to that end, Rob, Al and I spent 2 hours of quality time on the phone last night.

My take away from that conversation is that every one with a single digit on the their car has the rights to the line.

And just like Moses at the shores of the Red Sea, the field must move over and let those with a one and a nine (single digits only, Jeff) pass unimpeded.

Progress ... finally!

:lol: Mitch, I'm good with that!
The entire set of examples in the back of the CCR makes for good understanding that A: the rules have to be taken as a set, not as one liners independent of each other and B: there is going to be an awful lot of interpretation of the specifics of each incident in order to reach a decision.

Figure 12 is not meant to indemnify the overtaking car from having to stick to the inside. Notice where the contact occurs at point 3. The overtaking driver is clearly farther forward than the one being overtaken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mitchntx

Again, I think that's where you and I diverge.

---

Diverge how? In that the whole rulebook needs to be taken into account? Or rights to position criteria?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mitchntx

In your interpretation, a person "dive bombing" has rights to the line based simply on where the front wheel is.

---

Dive Bombing is not an offence in itself. And no, thats not the only criteria. Was the driver in control when position was established as in were his tires locked up? If thats how position was gained, then no, rights to position was not gained/established (while in control of the car).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mitchntx

In the illustration seen Figure 12, car B doesn't even have to attempt to turn.

That's ludicrous ...

---

I didn't agree w/ your earlier application of figure 12 to the Al/Jerry contact at MSR-C. It does not however mean I disagree w/ your feelings on the fault assigned in figure 12. Given that scenario, I'll do all I can to find fault to car B. I may not be able to, but I'll try. There are many rules w/in the CCR's and Series rules in which I do not agree with. BUT, I am required to follow them as a racer, and I'm required to enforce them as a Director. If in some crazy world you found yourself in the position as a Director (and we all know you have refused multiple times), what would you use to justify your actions as a Director? Hopefully it would be some official document that will validate your actions. If not, and you just refer to your "gut feel" you will not last long.


So, Rights to Position, when a Pass is Initiated/Completed, is the car in control, and all those other rules must be viewed together to paint a full picture of assigned fault. There is an order in which those things must happen as well. The order of importance is not always the same.

Uncle

http://ant.sillydog.org/blog/pic/monkey_n_cat.jpg

We will start the bidding for #2 at $500 tonight at 8pm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd Covini

We will start the bidding for #2 at $500 tonight at 8pm.

---

Shouldn't the owner of #2 be made aware of this first? :lol: Price should be $4500 and includes a car to stick the number on. Any takers? 8) :lol:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

Learn the styles and habits of the other drivers around you. I know to watch out for Glenn to dive me at turn in, Burch used to do it too, Corey is bad about it too, and Varner and Wirtz will do it as well, just not as aggressively as Glenn. I'm learning how to do it as well.

---

Why is this a bad thing? :roll: The pass initiated under braking is the heart of the art that is road racing. Why are you lumping all of us in with this Glenn bash fest?

This whole subject smells of the aged old "haves" vs. "have nots" (talent).

Danika's vs. Milka's. :wink:

jb
_________________
Used to have talent

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

Learn the styles and habits of the other drivers around you. I know to watch out for Glenn to dive me at turn in, Burch used to do it too, Corey is bad about it too, and Varner and Wirtz will do it as well, just not as aggressively as Glenn. I'm learning how to do it as well.

---

With 217rwhp and 270rwtq at my disposal (not counting the Jenny Craig candidate #2 car), it was very clear the only place to pass was in <cough> the corners.

Remember.. brakes are for turning. 8)

Give me an inch -I will take it, slap you upside the head with it and then giggle as the door closes on ya. <kidding!!> Yes, you can have my Bud Light. 8)