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Jerry,Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowBolt
I would suggest getting StopTech hats/rotors. They wear like iron. I'm on my third set of PFC01's (9 hours of endurance racing and a season and a half of regular racing) and the rotors are absolutely fine. Replacements are expensive ($250 ea), but if you never need them, they don't cost anything...
I "think" you have Brembo's, correct? I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to run the StopTech floating rotors...
Just let them go, Jerry. They can race for a few Toyo bucks and an internet signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowBolt
Like most series, this one has become one of "haves" and "have nots". Spec Miata comes to mind.
The irony is those guys need us to help pay for the weekend. Once they price us out, where will they run?
I realize I can't make a run at a Championship nor have a prayer at Nationals. So, I pick the races I want to attend and I'll read about the rest.
So all the justification talk about "good for the series" really doesn't hold water.
Agree and disagree. The cynical side of me points to who were the first to get these big brake kits. I see two directors-one in Texas with one kit and one in Cali with another kit. I don't like it, but....Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Since when did you have to have big brakes and more money to win a championship? Only person I can think of that has won a championship with upgraded brakes is actually Mitch.
I'm with you Mitch/Jerry and here to have fun but.... Mitch doesn't run his factory brakes. He had such issues with caliper spread that he has the upgraded package of brackets and corvette calipers. Now I know why he won the CMC2 championship in my rookie year :wink: Also interesting to see that Jerry has had some serious brake issues. Can breaking rotors be dangerous?
I havent talked to a single driver that has upgraded their brakes who believes it has improved their lap times. Believeing this is a requirement in order to be competitive is the same as believing you need a $4K carbon seat, or $3K data aquisition system, or a $2K paint job, yet nobody is concerned about those.
Invest in your car for the right reasons and everything will be fine.
Also interesting to see that Jerry has had some serious brake issues. Can breaking rotors be dangerous?[/quote]
DING, DING, DING. We have a winner. I have broken three rotors in the last one and a half events (never broke one before). These were all directional veined Centrics (SP) brand rotors. I'm going to order a set of ECB's and see how they do ($61.00 each). I would not mind spending the money to get the Aluminum hats from Todd at TCE and the Coleman rings but that set-up is over $500.00 for a pair. $250.00 for the hats and $139.00 for the rings. Todd said the rings are high because it's a special run that does not fit anything else. Adam had this set-up maybe he can tell me how much life he got out of them. I have thought alot about the danger of a rotor breaking while on the track.
JJ
Over 4 1/2 years of racing I was on my third set of calipers with each of the first two sets lasting about 2 years before spreading. It sucks throwing away $200 pads after 1 event of racing.
I typically went through two sets of rotors each year with them cracking. I never had one crack all the way through but after about 3 events I would be able to feel the cracks with my fingers and would discard them at that time. The Crown Victoria rotors I ran a few years ago were non-directional rotors and I thought that was why I was cracking them. I then switched to Cobra rotors that were directional and still had cracking issues. (I tried rotors from A/Z and O'Reilly).
I have good ducting plates that are 1/8" away from the rotors and still had issues.
I know I'll never make back the money I paid for the StopTechs but I'm glad I bought them due to the lack of replacement and safety comfort.
To answer Jerry's questions about rotor life - I ran the TCE hats w/Coleman 12"x1.125" rotors. Unfortunately, I only got one season out of the rotors using (IIRC) Cobalt pads. The rotors cracked right at the end of the season, and it was very disappointing, given they cost $300 for the pair. Although I have no hard data to back it up, I suspect part of the reason for the for the premature failure was the dimensions - 1.125" thickness. With stock Cobra/PBR calipers, you can't use a thicker rotor due to pad (and caliper) dimensions.
I think I had about ~$700 into the set (hats @$250, mounting hardware @$80, rotors @$300) with the goal of increased longevity - and that didn't happen.
Jerry - if you are breaking rotors (at the hat/hub area), inspect (possibly replace) your hubs, as well as your spindles. I've been fortunate to have never broken a rotor while racing, but I am aware of several Ford drivers who've broken rotors at the track, but that appeared to be focused on the Brembo rotors with the fixed Brembo 2000 Cobra R calipers.
I have, however, cracked every set of rotors on my car, sometimes, all the way through, but radially, not at the hub/hat area. The cut down Cobra units would only last one season, the CV units would last ~1.5 - 2 seasons. Pads would only last 2 events. And this is with good brake ducts. The calipers that I'm removing from my car have been on there since 2006 (I think), and are in damn fine shape, boots not withstanding. Don't ask me how they've managed to survive so long. <shrug>
FWIW - I researched CMC2 legal brake kits, even purchased a set of Wilwood calipers and hats to build my own kit as I didn't want to spend ~$2000 on a kit. The primary reason I bought the StopTech kit had everything to do with Ryan Kim, and his willingness to work with our group, make necessary changes, and produce a quality kit that meets the needs of our drivers.
Ask Al how vehmently I fought the 4-piston brake rule (and continue to remind him my feelings about it), but as previously mentioned, the cat is out of the bag. So, I put a set on my car with the goal of increased longevity for pads and rotors. We'll see how that works out.
I'm not sure why a 3100lb Mustang has caliper spread issues.
I'm stil on my junk yard $50 calipers (for both, not each). They have never been rebuilt, not even before I put them on in 2004. I just installed them on my new car - didn't rebuild them.
I don't run cooling ducts either.
I'm not saying caliper spread is a myth, I've seen it. I am saying, the OEM stuff can work well. I also replace my rotors about once a year (prior to Nats) otherwise they crack. I use Wagner rotors from the local parts store. The pad you use is likely the issue. Lots of heat kills parts. To me, this is one of the reasons I like Carbotech stuff so much. Easy on parts. Lots of life.
W/ all this said, I'm still wanting to upgrade to 13" rortos and 4 pot calipers. I don't want to sacrifice the OEM parts availability I have now w/ an upgrade. Thicker pads would be nice for enduro use though. Increased weight or even an increase in rotational mass is not something I want. So for now, I'm looking at a C6 upgrade. 13" rotors and C6 2 piston calipers.
The rotor failures Jerry and I have mentioned were all non hub related.
Michael is correct. The three I broke did not break in the hub area or out on the track but during cooldown. Two rotors broke running Carbotech pads and this last one PFC01's (remember this was at ECR).Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmosty
JJ