As entertaining as this is, could you guys possibly work it out over the phone instead of the forum? Please??
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As entertaining as this is, could you guys possibly work it out over the phone instead of the forum? Please??
Now thets funny rite theeer...Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCMC70
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey_SS
Half of this forum is about racing, the other half is about how much people don't like each other.
Shit's getting old, we know already...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Kellam
Papa Kellam,
You are out of line here. Glenn and I do not always see eye to eye. In fact at TWS last year I wanted to kill his ass but I’m telling you not one person here thinks you guys won any races because of cheating.......not one! I’ve never heard a word about it from a single person including Glenn! The fact is that a guy got DQ’ed at Nats this year for Lexan windows. Can you imagine losing the national championship because of that? You guys are lucky you did not get caught with at least two things done to the car that is not okay. It would have been a shame to have you lose any race because of these dumb little things but the fact remains that you could have and should have been DQ’ed. At Cresson one year I saw the header wrap on your car and I told you guys it was not okay to have it. You told me the rule had changed. Hell, I never read the rules so I assumed you were correct and if I was not so lazy I would have my headers wrapped right now. Do I think the header wrap and the shock mount would have made a difference in the number of wins you guys had......Hell no but that is not the point. The point is your car was not within the rule set and you got away with it. Get over this obsession with Glenn. Glenn can be a prick (so can I) but he loves this sport and he gives a lot more than he receives out of it. I hope you two know I consider you to be my friends and I hope you do not take this wrong but again not one person (including Glenn) thinks you only won because of cheating. You guys did more work than the rest of us and it paid off. I hope you both come back and we get past all this BS.
By the way, I’m way faster than your old ass Pappa Kellam. Come on out and make me eat those words.
JJ
I know a couple of the guys want this to just go away, but the discussion is important (though it does seem to go better when we're all standing around in the paddock), and generally civil all around.
Wayne, I think you and Jeremiah built a car to what you believed was the legal limit of the rules and spent the required time to develop the car and the driver to a very high potential.
But your answering your own complaint here; if "1/2" of geometric modification" is legal on your car, can I move my drivetrain rearward 1/2" and be legal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Kellam
Remember we also had a very fast guy DQ'd for subframe connectors that were clearly outside the lines but had been on the car since day one; does not/did not make them legal and as harsh as the penalty was, what else should have been done? Do some of the rules appear to be non-performance related? Perhaps, but if they are still in the rulebook they should be enforced consistently.
I'm glad this is going to be clarified. Not only are catch cans not allowed, I'm struggling to find where extending the factory breather with a hose and adding a filter is allowed. Will the update also include the transmission vent? The Orange car had a catch can on the transmission vent when it was purchased... from a CMC director. I need to know if it needs to be removed before the next event.Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCMC70
Similarly, is the header coating thing also going to be clarified? While I see nothing that allows header wrap, I'm equally unable to find the wording that allows "cheap" coatings but disallows "expensive" coatings, and what the delineation between the two cost ranges might be. It would be unfortunate for you to have to disqualify yourself at the next event in front of our out of region guests. :-)
Richard P.
Could be a big AI/X field...Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardP
Like this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey_SS
Kellam's you should just ignore it and go race. I have heard rumours of me cheating and at first I was kind of annoyed, but ultimately I just don't care. I think part of it just comes with winning. I know that I am not knowlingly breaking any rules to gain some advantage.
I don't think anyone really thinks header wrap is some massive advantage anyway. Just get the car out and go have fun.
Oh...and BTW... NO one ever LOSES because they have less talent. It has to be superior equipment, unequal rules, or cheating. :D
Well everyone knows James cheats. How else could he beat the Jordans every single time. No way he is just faster. I think his mother puts something in the gas tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by AllZWay
JJ
You just think she is a sweet country lady. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowBolt
reminds me of a quote I see all the time from one of the SE Corvette racers:
"Everyone behind me is an incredible driver. Everyone ahead of me is a cheater!"
Once again I nominate Gary to be a Director along with Al, Glenn, and Marshall. I think he knows the rules as good as anyone and is spot on in his interpretations. He has another great post that makes perfect sense.
Well said Jerry.
JP-next time I want your mom to mix my drink and put something special in my gas tank, too! First I have ever heard of your name and cheating but that is a failry common them in our human behavior. To me if you aren't cheating and you get accussed of it then its simply a great compliment.
JK-I wrapped my exhuast manifolds that I have already put on my car so it is possible. Also-I was going to call you last night but don't have your number (PM it to me) in my new phone. Watched a documentary on PBS last night and thought of you since I think you are getting Gage into karts-here is the info- http://racingdreamsfilm.com/
Hokey Smoke, Bullwinkle ... never thought I'd read some of the things posted in this thread, and other threads for that matter.
I'll leave this here ...
What burns my corn is not rules implementation or rules interpretation, it's the justice.
We've witnessed regional championships stripped from competitors over something like a 1/2" stitch weld and
other competitors beat and bang their way to regional championships leaving a piles of their own and their competitor's body parts in their wake and
then congratulated for their "accomplishments" at the end of the year.
Focus on certain things and the brushing-off of others makes no sense to me.
If following the CCR leads down this path, then the CCR is way out of whack.
ooops ... forgot to add ...
I personally don't equate "illegal" with "cheating".
I have a set of R888 I run in a race. Am I cheating? I'm certainly illegal ...
You're not fat. Don't be so hard on yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbody383
Thats really illegal?Quote:
like the silly law that states you can't turn right at a red light if someone is in the right lane, even if they are pulled so far forward/to the left that you can sqeeze by.
Kellams (both of you) you guys are much friendlier than this. I think you're hearing plenty of guys saying that theres not some groundswell of opinion that you're cheating bastards, or anything near it. As a matter of fact, all of us would just like you to get the damn car to the track and race and drink with us some more. As for Glenn, he works pretty hard at keeping the guys here in TX informed, not at trying to bend the rules in his favor. As a matter of fact he probably has the least discretion with the rules off all the regional directors since I'm physically here as well.
Jerry, Gary...nicely put.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fernandez
I'll apologize if I was too hard on Glenn. No malice intended towards ANYONE. Sorry.
The real problem that I have with the rules is inconsistancey in inforcing rules that are very clear and then not allowing things because it is their INTERPRETATION of what is not written. I can not understand why you chose to say "if does not say you can then you can't". To me this is completely irrational and a cop-out.
I wish that CMC could get this all resolved in a much better way that the Director saying: "if you think this is allowed then you will be DQ'd", end of story because I checked 8 years ago. Not acceptable for me and should not be for anyone in CMC.
I think I've said enough.
I struggled with the if it doesn't say you can, then you can't for a long time. Couldn't get my head around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Kellam
Then one day it "clicked" as to why CMC will never be able to work with "bible".
CMC is made up of a dozen or more unique platforms, each with it's own set of strengths and each with it's own set of problem areas.
It would be impossible to generate a rule set for each possible platform of allowances and at the end of all the allowed changes there be parity.
If the series was made of a single platform, then yeah ... what you want is doable. But it's premise of the series that makes it impossible.
So instead, the rules say start with showroom stock platform and these are the allowed changes and nothing else.
Subtle but an important point of view.
Buddy of mine got a ticket in College Station for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fernandez
Interesting that it states the times you CAN pass on the shoulder. I bet this section of the code would be 20+ pages longer if it listed all the reasons that you're NOT permitted to drive on the shoulder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Transportation Code - Section 545.058. Driving On Improved Shoulder
Driver - "My dog telepathically told me to pass the car to make the right turn"
Officer - "Well shoot, that's not listed in these 20 pages of code as a reason you can't pass, so I must let you go. Have a nice day"
Quit listening to GlennQuote:
Originally Posted by kbrewmr2
I agree...Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Love AI27
David,
Your "woe is me" rants are getting a little old. Especially your having Glenn and Glenn only in your cross-hairs.
Someone brought whatever your issue is it to his attention. As a director he is duty bound to investigate and take action if needed.
Jason's penalty wasn't handed down by Glenn and only Glenn. He may've explained the decision, as he should, but the decision wasn't his.
Your illegal car isn't anything that gains you or Jason an overwhlming advantage, or you'd win more races. But it's still illegal and if allowed, then the next guy takes it a step further and so on. Again, illegal and cheating aren't the same thing, although as much and as you vehemently defend, it does make me wonder.
You are shooting the messenger, a convenient target. Let it go.
And again, you chose to focus on a single set of circumstances (Jeff and Glenn), to illustrate only your hidden agenda ... well, maybe not so hidden.
And I am a little ticked that you would band wagon onto my post in a lame attempt to further your agenda.
I used general, yet identifiable examples to illustrate my point. I suggest you work really hard at formulating an original thought, not twisting mine in your evil plot to over throw the Love conspiracy. It wasn't too long ago this same basic group pooled money to keep you racing. So there is no conspiracy.
If you have a problem with your car, I suggest you do some research, do a little fact gathering, figure what's best for the series, formulate a plan to fix and make a case for change (either in the rule set or in your car) instead of just pointing a finger and proclaiming "he hate me".
I didn't imply that Glenn handed down either of the penalties memtioned. I wasn't there for either of them. I know some facts and saw video that shows inconsistacies with the penalty handed to Jason and Wirtz as compared to others.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
I read the rules and researched my car. It is legal as far as I know.
What was you implication, then? Glenn was certainly the target of your angst.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Love AI27
That is evidenced in the post you deleted here and the 4 or 5 others you have yet to delete.
If you feel that strongly about it, why delete your opinion?
You certainly hurt the validity of a post if you decide to delete it.
The appearance is that you didn't mean it.
If you have facts not in evidence, then the time to appeal was a year and a half ago, not today and yesterday and last week and last month and over Christmas break and during Thanksgiving, while trick or treating, on Labor day weekend, during 4th of July fireworks, celebrating Memorial day, hunting easter eggs, while fasting during lent, on Presidents day, while celebrating 2011 on New Year's eve. Your agenda is clear ... Glenn gone or you'll generate as much crap as you can until it happens.
As you tried to imply by your quoting and piggy-backing onto my post, the problem is not Glenn or Al or Adrian ... it's the CCR, IMHO.
I'll try again ...The tool is screwed up when a misplaced stitch weld, a length of roll bar padding, a heat insulating cloth can strip a competitor of a Regional Championship while blowing a yellow flag, knocking someone's fender off, punting a competitor, or blocking has no significant impact.
A DQ is a non-droppable zero ... a reposition is droppable. Where's the justice in that?
Is that Glenn? No ... it's ANYONE who is guilty of an on-track infraction and deemed so by an IRB or your corner worker buddies or during a rountine or non-routine inspection.
In Wirtz's case, I don't know the particulars and don't care to. I do know that when LiiR found out, they worked their asses off to do what it took to over take, Jeff. So don't sit behind your monitor and act like your pissed because Jeff was screwed over. LiiR accepted the trophy and cashed the big check.
MSR HOUSTON 2011... Jason "punted" Wade... it was an accident... you can see in the video that he locked up the fronts trying to avoid. First major contact in his career. He didn't do it on purpose and felt horrible when it happened. Was DQed (non-droppable), suspended for a race (no chance to earn points) and put on probation. I wasn't there to see what happened or help him. He is respectful of his elders and didn't want to protest the decision. Did it have a significant impact on his Championship? Why him? I guess in you humble opinion the penalty was fair and justified... IMHO it was crap... Jason is a good person who never wants to hurt anyone... He called me that night and asked me to come and drive because he was scared he might screw up and get kicked out of the series...Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
DANG!
Is everybody familiar with "The Butterfly Effect"? ...not the movie necessarily, but more in general as it relates to chaos theory and meteorology? I think I just witnessed it here. Apparently, I can ask questions about headers on the National CMC forum and it leads to a shit-storm in Texas, while I can ask similar questions about breather catch tanks and it doesn't even ripple the pond.
I wanted to come here and apologize to anyone who received any grief from the trickle-down.
I wish all regions with CMC racers were as well represented on the National CMC forum as Texas and a couple other regions.
Fun times racing, drinking beer, and hanging out at the track can't come soon enough.
I wasn't there either. I do know that Jason was the ONLY CMC car and out-of-class contact, as decided by the race director, would be dealt with severely.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Love AI27
That's been the mantra ever since Jeff lost a door to the wild woman in the stock car.
Jason was coached to move to CMC2 and refused.
And if I recall, Wade's car was wrinkled beyond repair.
But, OK it was crap. Jason was screwed over. Jason's a good person. Jason's respectful. And, Jason, I believe that, BTW ...
WTF does that have to do with ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Love AI27
Again, your anger is pointed at the messenger, not the real problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Love AI27
Wow ... this all sounds like I'm defending Glenn. Further from the truth.
I couldn't care less what Glenn says or does.
But if you, David and you, Mr. Kellam would direct your passion into getting the problems fixed, traction might be made.
As long as decisions are being made without regard to how it effects existing racers, this kind of thing will continue.
What is CMC going to do when the puppet-masters decide the new Camaro and Challenger will be made CMC legal?
What's that going to do to the Fox and 3G? SN95? 4G?
And don't say they wouldn't do that ... they've already done it twice ... once with the 4G and again with the LSx cars and the new Mustangs.
It's why we're where we're at today.
If you think replacing Glenn is the answer, then you will be sorely disappointed.
The problems existed when Todd, Adam, and Al were regional directors.
A replacement will change nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MHISSTC
Oh yeah ... at the track we're all best of friends.
Once away from the track, accusations, back-stabbing, finger-pointing, rumor-mongoring is the norm.
Our plan was to bring home the final CMC Championship in Texas. We have been running out of class in the 27 car from the very begining and ALWAYS let others by if they were quicker. Jason didn't need any coaching, we already had a plan. And yes, that was the final straw for the old #17... we offered up parts but Wade was already building a new one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
A similare thing happened when I posted a thread just like this one here stating Maximum Motorsports upper rear shock mounts were not CMC legal - total cluster. Since I didn't do the same w/ the catch can (since the rules will be clarified to allow it), you got a different result.Quote:
Originally Posted by MHISSTC
I understand anyone not agreeing with anyone else's opinion, but I cant pass up the opportunity to point out a few things from my perspective here to enable other competitors and would be competitors to base their own opinions.
A driver's intent in no way excuses their responsibility for the results of their actions. A punt with damage gets a DQ and a suspension per the CCR, even first offense ever. Out of class contact adds probation per Texas existing standards as communicated to every RD. Whomever was involved in that decision was following the exact expectations of NASA. There is not one but two appeal stages any driver can employ if they disagree with any decision of an official.
Jason's DQ was droppable as per CMC rules. It ended up having no impact on Jason's season total because he DNS'd 16 races, so he had far more 0s than drops.
All that said, I really wish you'd find a way to bury the hatchet David and just come to the track and enjoy being with your racing family. I've even got some cold beers and a bit of bourbon for you when you decide to.
Thanks Al...Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Fernandez
I understand... my rants were misguided... sorry. I had a plan for Jason to be the last CMC1 Champion in Texas even if he would have been the only car running. After the Houston event I feel like he was strong armed into CMC2 (not a rant, just my opinion). We had a blast running mid-pack of the CMC2 field for 2010 in CMC1 and had very minor issues. No big deal, sorry.
I don't like my car being anyones target, period. I am not an idiot, I, like everyone else, had concerns about the car, so I asked. DONE!
There are other issues that I'm not getting into. Hatchet is burried
I AM at the track, usually, twice a month... and having a blast... it is good to be back.