Inverted Starts

My name is Mitch, and I'm a Racaholic. :lol:

I would like to see a stat on the class incidents vs. # cars out there.
It would be interesting.
More cars closer together is gonna result in actual CLOSE competition.
Racing IS competition. CMC is close tight racing and the reason I'm doing it.
If I had a higher source of disposible income I would definately run AI.
In a Chevy no less and am certain I could squelch a few egos in this class.
Regardless, racing is the sh!t.
Hot lapping is like masterbation.

jb

I think you just described how you got started ... other than #1

I'm not pissed, David. It appears you are getting there, though.[/quote]

That is how I got started. My car cost $4,000.00 at Joe's Used Car Lot. Ran Driver's Edge once and NASA HPDE once in my life with no other track experience. Put a cage in the car, and next event I was on the track with the race group.

I'm not mad! Just resolved in my feelings on F.I.S. And because NASA is still pushing people into the race group, noticably into CMC, that is how you become a CMC driver. Problems will arise from having fully inverted starts and inexperienced people leading the way.

[/quote]

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Originally Posted by jeffburch

Hot lapping is like masterbation.
jb

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"lube it up!"

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Originally Posted by jeffburch

Hot lapping is like masterbation.

jb

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Originally Posted by jeffburch

My name is Mitch, and I'm a Racaholic. :lol:

I would like to see a stat on the class incidents vs. # cars out there.
It would be interesting.
More cars closer together is gonna result in actual CLOSE competition.
Racing IS competition. CMC is close tight racing and the reason I'm doing it.
If I had a higher source of disposible income I would definately run AI.
In a Chevy no less and am certain I could squelch a few egos in this class.
Regardless, racing is the sh!t.
Hot lapping is like masterbation.

jb

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I think Jeff is drunk again .... :wink:

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there is always someone who feels they are being put @ a disadvantage,

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Glenn, you've got that market cornered chief. :lol: :lol:

Well, I'll admit that I'm still one of those rookies who's ass end is kinda wide at times. Hell, I down right scared the shit out of MB qualifying in the rain, sorry dude. Anyway, I've been reading and trying to understand each guys point of view. I agree with most points to some extent or another but I fail to understand why some of this group participate in races when it seams that AutoX would be better to fill there need for speed without traffic.

Boudy

Dave, I'm a little confused...you do or do not want to fully invert the field?














:lol:

Al, your not helping............ you will fit in fine here. :P

I will say this... from being on the track with DA and racing with him, he will race you hard and close... Now that he has moved up to AIX and I am still in AI things have changed. He will not just blow by or make a hole, he is patient and will wait for a good pass on out of class cars like myself.

I can remember multiple times when I was stuffing my car in holes and working thru the field with him behind me, when there was a break I would give him room and sometime he would pass sometimes he would not. He would wait till I cleared the cars I was racing hard with or I was at a stand still for a while behind a car.

He does not have a desire to bang his car up, and it does seem boring for him to be patient for 10 minutes of a 20 minutes race just to clear all those cars... I understand where he is coming from, having seen him on track.

DD

I can also see everyone's point, however we ALL have to deal with a speed differential... either positive or negative.

We all have to watch our mirrors while keeping the rest of the racing in prospective.

That is what makes us the badasses and rockstars of the every day driving world.... we're racecar drivers! 8)


Many other series run "out of class" cars. In endurance racing in the ALMS, I'm sure the Audi guys aren't saying... damn, we're getting stuck behind a lowely GT1 or GT2 car. The slower traffic is just a rolling chicane that EVERYONE has to deal with. It may not be at the same place on the track, but the "obsticle" is still out there for everyone to overcome.

Everyone take a deep breath, pull your manties from you A$$ and get ready for Feb!!!!

... or as JB says, "Cinch it up!!!"

See you guys at SpeedZone!

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Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Dave, I'm a little confused...you do or do not want to fully invert the field?














:lol:

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Well I have to ask, who are you? And what region are you from? What is your experience? And what are your intentions with this series? What are your leadership qualifications? Are you planning on keeping this series consistant? Hopefully you are not into experimenting with safety and think AI/AIX should start behind a bunch of wheezing stock motored CMC cars.

Just feel like we should put everything out on the table. I complain about safety and stupid ideas like fully inverted starts. Otherwise I keep my mouth shut and keep to myself. The politics of this series would even make John Force loose interest in racing.

David

PS Fully inverted Starts SSSSSSUUUUUCCCCKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by marshall_mosty

I can also see everyone's point, however we ALL have to deal with a speed differential... either positive or negative.

We all have to watch our mirrors while keeping the rest of the racing in prospective.

That is what makes us the badasses and rockstars of the every day driving world.... we're racecar drivers! 8)


Many other series run "out of class" cars. In endurance racing in the ALMS, I'm sure the Audi guys aren't saying... damn, we're getting stuck behind a lowely GT1 or GT2 car. The slower traffic is just a rolling chicane that EVERYONE has to deal with. It may not be at the same place on the track, but the "obsticle" is still out there for everyone to overcome.

Everyone take a deep breath, pull your manties from you A$$ and get ready for Feb!!!!

... or as JB says, "Cinch it up!!!"

See you guys at SpeedZone!

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Where in ALMS do they do inverted starts??? I missed that part of their program. "Obsticle" or "popsicle" or whatever, the point is why do we invert? How you can use ALMS to make that point is beyond me.

Nobody is talking about getting lapped here, we're talking about changing the way races are started. The cluster@#$ going into Turn 1 on Lap 1, the tip-toe through the tulips on the first half lap amigo.

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Originally Posted by marshall_mosty

Many other series run "out of class" cars. In endurance racing in the ALMS, I'm sure the Audi guys aren't saying... damn, we're getting stuck behind a lowely GT1 or GT2 car. The slower traffic is just a rolling chicane that EVERYONE has to deal with. It may not be at the same place on the track, but the "obsticle" is still out there for everyone to overcome.

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Marshall,

I don't think Miata's start in front of the Audi's and Cadillac's. The faster group starts in front of the slower.

Why not have Kevin's group start in the back of CMC? Because they don't want their +50K car smashed into by some CMC yahoo.

Do you blame them? Hell no.

David

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Originally Posted by Garbage

I don't think Miata's start in front of the Audi's and Cadillac's. The faster group starts in front of the slower.

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Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Where in ALMS do they do inverted starts??? I missed that part of their program.

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Okay, I hit the "Submit" button early. I should have referred to the restarts after a double yellow where the field is all bunched up with out of class cars everywhere...

maybe my post goes without merit. If so, ohh well. I cry softly to myself later.

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Originally Posted by Garbage

Well I have to ask, who are you? And what region are you from? What is your experience? And what are your intentions with this series? What are your leadership qualifications? Are you planning on keeping this series consistant? Hopefully you are not into experimenting with safety and think AI/AIX should start behind a bunch of wheezing stock motored CMC cars.

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umm... http://www.aicmctexas.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=741

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Originally Posted by Todd Covini

New Texas AI/CMC Leadership Team Announced for 2007!
Effective December 1, 2006

It is with great pleasure to announce that Al Fernandez, CMC Director from NASA’s Northern California region will transfer to the NASA Texas region effective Jan. 1, 2007. Mr. Fernandez will retain his current duties as a CMC Series Director and report to Todd Covini

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well i have posted this once already. why is everyone so wound up over a question? this is not something that has been proposed. not something that was taken to a vote. i know of no plans for this to happen. so why all the banter. David, you will still start in front of the AI cars and AI cars in front of CMC cars. that way, inverts will only be w/in class. but, that means GPC cars will start in front of you.

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

well i have posted this once already. why is everyone so wound up over a question? this is not something that has been proposed. not something that was taken to a vote. i know of no plans for this to happen. so why all the banter. David, you will still start in front of the AI cars and AI cars in front of CMC cars. that way, inverts will only be w/in class. but, that means GPC cars will start in front of you.

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Why is GPC in our run group? Has this been decided or something?

David, you should really stop w/ the crap talking of CMC. there is no reason to keep talking down to those who choose to run CMC. your allowed to have your opinion, but voicing it over and over is getting a little old.

not. but there will be times when we will be asked to run w/ them. we have done it in the past, we will do it some more i'm sure.

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Originally Posted by RichardP

Since it looks like fun to start a thread that will eventually get locked…

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All you guys DO realize that RP is sitting back watching all this and laughing, right?
http://www.ringelkater.de/ringel_wit..._dog_mouse.jpg

Well, I'm not biting on this one! :twisted:

We're not changing the formula.
Inverted starts aren't up for debate...they'll continue and are a part of AI/CMC's philosophy. <-----that's a period

The valid questions/discussion/debate is:
1) How many inverts per weekend?
2) Invert within class or entire field?

Regarding the # per weekend...qualifying always leads to racing by qual time. So anytime we have 1 qual and 2 races in a day...there's a "fun race" to be had! (Al could tell you how many starting variations of "Fun Races" there are.) In general, we can anticipate 2 straight up races per weekend based on qual times. So...that leaves us with either 1 or 2 inverted races for the weekend (assuming we're talking 3 or 4 race weekends).

Regarding within class/entire field....Remember our discussions earlier in 2006.

"As the AI & CMC fields of cars grow, the chances of us running the entire AI/CMC field inverted will go down."

For all the same reasons folks would rather not run with GPC/ETC (race out of class cars) we ideally don't want to throw AIX cars into the CMC mix during an inverted start. Now...put the fastest CMC car or AI car at the back of the CMC field or AI field respectively...and now we're talkin!!! That's where we are heading guys/girls!

Inverting the entire field makes sense when we have 10-20 cars....it makes less sense when we have 20-30 cars...and it'll make no sense when we have 30-40 cars. So...as we "grow up"...AI and CMC will race more independently of each other. (...and it'll be a moot point because you'll STILL have a number of cars to get around during an invert, just ones that are in your own class!!!)

We're just not 100% there yet and have to play nice together until we get there...right? RIGHT??? RIGHT??? RIGHT???
-=- T

http://www.pariswells.org/pics/funny/cat.jpg

Who's next? Just don't get in my way.. mmmk?

Is this thread really worth the damage..... I keed.... I keed....

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/1280/3889/125670.jpg

Everyone....put the guns down!

(Whether they are pointed at your own head or at another competitor's head.)

Put the guns....DOWN.

Step away from your firearms, slowly....

Don't MAKE me lock this thread!!! :lol:

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Originally Posted by Todd Covini

All you guys DO realize that RP is sitting back watching all this and laughing, right?

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Yes. Yes he is. With great pleasure, I might add.

Eric...that is one GIANT cat in that picture! Or a pretty harmless gun...

There are about as many varieties of "invert" scenarios we've run as there are opinions on suspension settings for an AI car. I think Todd hit it on the head though: as car count goes up, the need/desire to intermix the classes goes down.

What's up with all the cat pics?

every time David trash talks CMC, a kitten dies. :cry:

In this thread alone ....

http://www.nekobox.org/comic/2006-03-17.jpg

http://www.innocentenglish.com/cute-...e-kitten-3.jpg

http://www.thecatgallery.com/images/sleeping-kitten.jpg

http://www.benyah.net/gallery/albums...tickuppaws.jpg

http://dailykitten.com/kittens/1134742947G-sleeping.jpg

http://www.siamese-kittens.com/funny...l_sleeping.jpg

Shame on you David ...

And you posers need to find your OWN identity ... :x

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's when that line is crossed calling out other drivers in bad light that needs to stop.

Close racing is very fierce especially with the number of cars in CMC. AI and AIX haven't experienced the across the board parity yet and car count to even imagine what it's like in CMC.

I'm not out to run laps against myself at any point during the weekend. I came to do battle with other competitors in close combat. I know there is a chance that everytime I take the green flag that something could happen to dent a body panel. We try to minimize the risks, but the winning lotto number still eludes me.

I'm sure we won't see a fully inverted field in '07. Some like it, some don't and it's a matter of opinion...nothing more.

I still stand by my thoughts that for some... parade laps are quite competitive enough.

Stop laughing Richard!!! 8)

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Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Eric...that is one GIANT cat in that picture! Or a pretty harmless gun...

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It's a hairball gun... quite harmless.

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

And you posers need to find your OWN identity ... :x

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Fine dude...

http://www.mustangmods.com/ims/u/1280/3889/125702.jpg

Yes, I went overboard on my postings. Ideas (as idiotic as they are) sometimes turn into policy. I prefer to stop it before it snowballs into policy.

No, I am not mad. Never was mad. Make me start at the back and then I will get angry. Will I race? You better believe it.

Yes, I wrote some strong statements. I have very strong feelings on this topic. Other topics posted in this forum don't affect me and thus don't bother me. As evidence, I am silent on this forum. Only reading people's thoughts and never reply. This idea has the potential to greatly affect me both financially and physically.

I know there are risk involved in racing. Every time I strap into my car I think about safety. I know I am there at the track to race and have fun. Why add to the risk? There is no reward for the added risk. No one is going to come to me and hand me money. No girl is going to give it up because I passed a bunch of cars on the start. Starting at the back and passing everyone doesn't make me more of a man. What is the incentive? There are no incentives. Fully inverted starts are pointless.

I have said my thoughts, now I will go back into my cave for my long winter's nap.

Will I change my mind about fully inverted starts when I wake up in February? No.

Sorry for affending the CMC crowd,
David

seems like a good place to put a lock.

j/k MikeB. :wink:

IBTL....


you are ALL slow! 8)

Front, back or middle...makes no difference...you WILL ALL be passed! :twisted:



There, is THAT enough stirring of the pot to get you goofballs to laugh a little and drop this? Sheesh! :roll:

Matt,

See if you can pass me next season. I gave you MSRH. Getting bored running away from the field on 7 cylinders and no 5th gear, I lifted with several minutes left in the race.

I thought about retaking my position, because I knew you would talk smack. But I also knew you where chasing Chris for points.

So all you posers, who think I have this hp and tq advantage, think again. I only had a tire advantage at MSRH.

That is changing as we speak for '07.

\\\\\\\\
David

It's all good David! Smack is Good too! Gives us all something to do in the off-season! :wink:

besides, who knows what trim the silver slut will be in next season?! I do have my eye on that 550hp Grand Am motor my builder is trying to get me to bite on! :wink:

Sluts do like things that are big. I say bite. My whore will be receiving 600hp and 500 tq. Everything is ordered and starting to arrive.

Look forward to sliding something big and meaningful between her strut towers.

A real AIX car is around the corner. Along with a new learning curve. Everything happens faster at faster speeds.

I had to rib you back dude.

See ya,
David

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Originally Posted by Garbage

I had to rib you back dude.

See ya,
David

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No problem buddy! Just doin' a little bench racing here and there!

One thing you better start getting used to though is a VERY light right foot!!!! 600hp is going to do a number on your sphincter!!! :shock: 8)

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Originally Posted by Garbage

My whore will be receiving 600hp and 500 tq. Everything is ordered and starting to arrive.

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Cool. With that much you should be able to pass CMC cars without them letting you by... :D


Richard P.