Rule of the Day - "racing room"

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

Robert - you have it correct.

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:D

If that's correct, doesn't that void your hold 'em to one lane thru the corner Glenn? (I'm genuinly asking) *edit* I see Fig 2 as the way Glenn describes it *edit*

The way I read Robert's situation is this.

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If the trailing car has reached the leading car's door (i.e. the wheel overlaps the leading car's door,) then the trailing car has the right to manouver, and the leading car MUST give him room to do so.

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I'm in the middle of the track 1 1/2 car width to either side, approaching a left hand corner. Glenn comes up on my left, wheel to my door, right to be there, share the track and all that. We stay that way around the corner. I stay in the middle, Glenn stays on the inside wheel to my door. At corner exit, I stay in the middle and don't track out, essentially killing Glenns exit speed as he has to stay on the left side of the track.

Now, according to Robert, I really should give Glenn the right to manouver? If Glenn wants to track out, I must move over to the right side of the track at corner exit?

I didnt read into Roberts use of the term "rights to manuver" as much as you have Gary. I did at first, but took a second look and assumed I was using the term differently than perhaps Robert was intending it. I decided to take the term as a "rights to be here" rather than litteral sence.

Gary, your example is correct, I would not be allowed to track out to the right on corner exit. I must be allowed the amount of track I laid rights to be having position. Everything under your car and to the right of your car is your to do w/ what you please. If you move right, I can move w/ you, but not force you to do so.

Like I said, this can get really confusing do to interpretational differences. Semantics plays too large of a role here and can lead to contact due to gross mis-understandings. This is really best to have these talks in person at the track w/ mock cars.

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Originally Posted by gt40

If the trailing car has reached the leading car's door (i.e. the wheel overlaps the leading car's door,) then the trailing car has the right to manouver, and the leading car MUST give him room to do so. (I will say that if the trailing car wants to move towards the leading car, this is a really risky move and while he may technically own the line, a wise driver would try to avoid moving over on the leading car.)

Make sense?

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I think that's the crux of the issue ~ when has a pass been safely completed? I'm not convinced EITHER car has the right to cause the other to alter its course in this scenario, especially down a straight.

I've already been on both sides of this coin and my current thought is still that if you are passing me and I have 2 wheels at track edge, that's all I'm giving you. It IS up to me to control the car to stay at track edge until the pass is completed or aborted, but I don't subscribe to the "I'll drive off the track so YOU can complete a pass" theory. DQ, probation,suspension, whatever - if I'm at the edge of the racing surface already the Passer has the responsibility to get it done clean.

I also try to be very conscious of whether I'm passing a car on the indside or outside and whether there are other cars that could be involved and what my mistake could cause.

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Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

I personally don't like the 3/4 rule. I prefer to make it 1 car width so that there is less possibility of a car being forced off into the grass and more risk of control loss.

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I'm good with that, too. Want to adopt a 1 car width Texas AI/CMC rule revision?

Not that this discussion hasn't occurred many times before... remember Todd and Adam with the 1/18 scale race cars in the MSR-C upstairs lounge? lol

This video from way back in the day (sorry for the crappy quality) shows A to B rule many times over around TWS.

From the 3/4 rule going into T3 (TWS) to "who has the line" after a pass on the front straight (can't really see it, but I was all the way in front for a few nanoseconds). I probably held JB out longer than he wanted, but it was my line. Another pass on the orange car that could possibly be viewed as chopping his nose a bit.

Action packed - at no time did I think JB was going to hit me and I don't think he thought I was going to hit him - even though we were inches apart.

http://www.tek-racing.net/JB-wins.wmv

Discuss/Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by gt40

If the trailing car has reached the leading car's door (i.e. the wheel overlaps the leading car's door,) then the trailing car has the right to manouver, and the leading car MUST give him room to do so.
Right?

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I don't agree... the lead car has the right to place his/ her car anywhere on the track but must leave 3/4 width to the trailing car (if trailing cars front bumper is even or in front of front cars rear bumper) Once the trailing car's front wheel is even with front car's door, then the trailing car has right to their current line and any track opposite of the front car. Once the trailing car has pulled ahead of the front car to a point where the former trailing car's door is even with the former front car's front wheel, the former trailing car may move any where on track, but must leave 3/4 width to the other car.Only once the trailing car has completely passed what was the front car (rear bumper past former front car's front bumper) then they may move to any position on the track. (i should of done the car A, car B thing...sorry) And I guess to clarify, this is concerning a straightline senario. When entering a turn, if the trailing car has a bumper just inside the front car, but not their front tire to the door, it is the leading car's right to "close the door".

That's the way I understand it... and I would have no problem if the rule changed to "1 car width".

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Originally Posted by gt40

And finally, there's what's right and there's whats wise, and they're not necessarily the same thing.

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Now I do agree with this. The way I look at it, in most cases, even if you are not at fault for contact, you put yourself in a position to be hit...

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Originally Posted by evarner

http://www.tek-racing.net/JB-wins.wmv

Discuss/Thoughts?

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T3 ...

JB gave you 1/2 a car ... but ... there was a good faith effort to give you racing room. Till 6' curb feelers are part of the CCR, that's all any one could ask.

The question is, though. Had you not gotten on the brakes as hard as you did, your left front tire would have most likely been at JB's door ... would you have been at fault if contact had occurred? (over aggressive driving) or JB? (not giving enough room)

Good discussion. We need more of this open, honest discussion to get aligned on our collective interpretation.

Were you then

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Originally Posted by jeremiahkellam

Once the trailing car has pulled ahead of the front car to a point where the former trailing car's door is even with the former front car's front wheel, the former trailing car may move any where on track, but must leave 3/4 width to the other car.

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See Fig 8.

I don't think it's 3/4 rule here. The car being passed should not have to ever put 2 wheels into the dirt UNTIL the passing car is completely made the pass and the scenario is reset.

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Originally Posted by Fbody383

[I think that's the crux of the issue ~ when has a pass been safely completed? I'm not convinced EITHER car has the right to cause the other to alter its course in this scenario, especially down a straight.

..... my current thought is still that if you are passing me and I have 2 wheels at track edge, that's all I'm giving you. It IS up to me to control the car to stay at track edge until the pass is completed or aborted, but I don't subscribe to the "I'll drive off the track so YOU can complete a pass" theory. DQ, probation,suspension, whatever - if I'm at the edge of the racing surface already the Passer has the responsibility to get it done clean.

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Your thoughts are spot on David.

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Originally Posted by jeremiahkellam

Once the trailing car (car B) has pulled ahead of the front car (car A) to a point where the former trailing car's door (car B) is even with the former front car's (car A) front wheel, the former trailing car (car B) may move any where on track, but must leave 3/4 width to the other car (car A).

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Red added by me.

Thats not correct. You are not the leading car until you complete the pass as in your rear bumper clears his front bumper. If you are car B and you are in the middle of the track w/ your right side, you may not move to the right if the car next to you (inches away) does not allow you to do so. You cannot push him to 3/4 of a car width to the right edge of the track. Your territory is from the middle to the left and his is to the middle to the right. If one of you moved left or right, the other can move also to claim the vacated territory. But you cannot force claim to territiory you do not control at that time.

I'll round up some cars and get them all marked up and we will spend some time on this at Hallett.