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Who says the unit of measure is HP or TQ? Why not use rate of acceleration measured in Gs?Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardP
If a guy is over power and is walking away from every one, then he gets nailed. If a guy is over powered and sand bags who cares?
Well we know in that case they were cheatin bastards (LOL).Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardP
If nothing wrong was done and nothing at all was changed on Al's car between pulls then how can you use the dyno at all?
Or were most of the other cars putting down the exact numbers they had put down earlier?
I don't have the answer but I understand the problem.
JJ
The guys will only sandbag when he's around others. Give him clear track, leading the race or chasing others, and it's a different story all together. Just my .02.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Because of a weak motor, I now can't get to weight even without fuel, so I could magically gain 5 HP and still be okay...
And his rate of acceleration will show on the graph that maps the data logged. If the driver dogs around the track and runs in the pack ... who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall_mosty
And how is this "sand-bagging" any different than hunting down a dyno that reads skewed numbers?
With teh pucks, at least we are all being measured with the same device. Variables have been eliminated.
I'm not saying it's fool-proof or hands down better. I am saying I'm being measured against the same standard as Jerry, Sam, Gary and Randy and none of us have to travel all over the state in order to get it done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Because unlike the dyno, all the relevant effects can't be factored out.
Weather (temperature, humidity, pressure) will effect the numbers.
The track configuration can also have an effect. Uphill, down hill, head wind, tail wind, aerodynamic drag. Does the guy with a high downforce/high drag setup get to have more power because his numbers would be lower?
Not to mention that it's really hard to account for bump drafting. :-)
If you set a maximum G, honest people are going get busted when it's cold and cheaters are going to dial up the horsepower when it's hot out.
If everyone has pucks, people with extra stuff will stand out. They can be singled out to be sent to the dyno for a controlled environment test.
Richard P.
But Richard, everyone has the exact same temp, humidity and wind to contend with and on the very same day on the very same track with all uphill, downhill and turns. It's parity at it's finest ... an even playing field.
And bump drafting will show up as a huge spike and can be accounted for.
Your concern about aero ... OK ... I have an aero friendly car and you have a barn door and we both have identical dyno curves at max HP and TQ.
Who wins? How is it different?
I don't believe the dyno at nationals was the issue in and of itself. Jeremiah ran right before me and repeated his numbers from earlier in the week as did a Miata that went on the dyno immediately after I did.
I still blame the car owner. 8)
Many of us do for a multitude of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe
My question on the little magic boxes is how does a competitor test their setup prior to a race?
Say I show up, race, go too fast, get DQ'd? What is the acceptable G or acceleration? Say thru testing, top men come up with a number. So to avoid a possible DQ, wouldn't this mean I would have to buy a magic box too to test my setup prior to race weekend and tune the car to get up/down to that hard number? But doesn't that hard number vary for the reasons pointed out? Then were back to a similar issue with the dyno's.
If you dont check your set-up on a dyno every now and then, your a fool. The requirement to be at or below a set HP number will never go away. Rather we could change the requirement to hand in an Annual Dyno Cert. The box will tell us who needs to be checked on a dyno.
In the past, radar guys have been used to spot "issues". This is no different. If a CMC cars rate of acceleration is different than all other cars, there is a problem. A car at X weight w/ X power will only accelerate at X rate. It is a work in process to see if this will work. SO we can all stop w/ the "sky is falling" drama.
I agree that if my car is legal for a given year, why would it not be legal for the following year given no changes were made. Even then I would still put my car on a dyno every couple of years at a minimum to ensure I am compliant as well as to check motor health.
So, thereis no "limit of rate of acceleration". It is more along the lines of "one of these does not look like the other".