I am glad I don't have the Formula V's in my group, but I am also glad they don't have their own group anymore either :!: :!: :!: :!:
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I am glad I don't have the Formula V's in my group, but I am also glad they don't have their own group anymore either :!: :!: :!: :!:
glenn, you groupings have several race classes that have 1 car in them...lump them all together in one super run group by qualification, say 40-50 cars and I bet you drop 3 full run groups!! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCMC70
Bye the way, Kevin, I think there are going to be some AIX cars in the future that might be passing you! :wink:
Look, we had other Group 8 "challenges" as well:
BMW with no tow hooks, later he decided to do a slow roll down through the sweeper, no hand signals or anything, you had to guess what he was going to do or where he was going.
The "hooptie" mazda chop-top that oiled down the track in T16/17 and continued to lay the transmission goo down the front straight.
The Viper driver was a very nice guy but parked it in the braking zone and at apex, point and shoot style. When my underpowered CMC car can overtake you in the sweeper you're doing something wrong lol.
Make me a better driver? Probably. Make me happier? Absolutely not. No ding on Mixon, but this isn't my idea of "fun" racing.
i know Matt. i dont have access to car counts for each class. but i did my best hip shot. the best way for NASA to "forecast" car count is to keep a running average from say the last 3 events. that way you know what classes need to move due to overloading the track. plan for 35-40 and set a max limit of 50. if thats exceeded, make a last minute change durring the weekend. if it falls below 25, do the same. do what you can to fill the track each session.
what if we just made it an all day session ENDURO and ran all cars for 3-4 hours???? fun??? :wink:
Someone mentioned "early registration" as being one thing that hurt NASA TX's ability to plan the groups, sounds like a logical business issue.
Would it help out if we registered early, then NASA TX could base the run groupings off of those registrations at some cutoff point in time? If a group loses track time/sessions or gets lumped with another they don't like it puts the emphasis on the entrants to get registered earlier so that NASA TX has the data to plan with?
Mike pretty much summed it up in his post with with the "challenges" of group 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXAST1
Plus, I don't know most of those guys. The only consistent one's are you and Jay. In a flash you guys are gone and I know what to expect. With the other "yahoo's", I have no idea what they are going to do. I don't want bimmer paint on my fine automobile!
I will try to post more later though.
I'm going to look really bad here, but away I go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell
I will be a hold out until I see the schedule. A late registration fee won't cost me anything if I see 5 & 8 together. Have fun.
All this has the makings of an intersting racing year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell
Common Mike, that is the fun of racing in a diverse group of cars and drivers. It would get boaring other wise! :shock: Plus you can tell all of your non-racing buddies you kicked ass on a full race prepped Vipper. :wink:
On the BMW, I signed that guy off because he had an SCCA liscense, I didn't tech his car. I am sure some of you guys may remember me saying after I signed you off " Don't Embar-ass Me!" We'll he must have missed that part of my speech. :roll:
per Matt, "Bye the way, Kevin, I think there are going to be some AIX cars in the future that might be passing you! Wink"
We'll Mister, All I can say is BRING IT! It will require our run groups to be combind. :wink:
Who says I am leaving my C5 stock anymore...
With sale of the Bitchin' Black Camaro, I now have a bigger buget for next season :D
I may have gotten my 5 and 8 confused there. The group with Kevin and his Corvette is good, the group with the chop-top Mazda, Bimmer with no tow hooks, point and shoot Viper, and rolling blockade Porsche 911 is no bueno.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe
Sorry for my confusion - I've been installing a lawn sprinkler system over the holiday and may have sniffed a bit too much PVC glue. :shock: :lol: :?
ROFL, that's Kevin's Heroes: Group 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe
Sorry, Kmix, online therapy at its finest lol.
KMix,Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXAST1
I will only add this...
There are a handfull of G8 drivers that I feel fine with on track, maybe three or four. The others are almost what you described, "doing hot laps"... while we are racing, and racing for points and a championship I find myself on track with guys running hot laps.
example: Parking in the corner for three turns, then doing fine the same three turn on the next lap... as if testing or just open tracking. I have been passed by a car, then catch the same car a lap later, then pass him again... and not just racing, almost like they were taking a break for a few laps or something... same car twice in one weekend.
Bottom line, getting in the way of drivers trying to race. Maybe we need to have a talk with these guys, if they don't plan on racing all out or at least 9/10th for the full race, run in racecraft!
I don't mind the speed differentials.
That is all.
DD
since this thread has veered again and has turned into a chat room, check out this interesting thread http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic....asc&highlight=
jb
Well, I will leave driver issues in G8 up to the Race director. It's our job to inform him of these issues with tech and driver abilities....then it's His/NASA TX to do something about it according to their judgement.
As for the silver BMW at Houston, that was an MSRH shop car out on rent best I could tell so shame on tech for allowing it on track. As for the chop top RX7...had it been painted, i am sure no body would have said a word till the driver made an error getting off track...I am sure non of us have ever done that?! :?
Casting stones is easy guys, viable solutions that keep this region in business so we have a place to race is what we need here. If we keep running out of cars, pretty soon we WILL be doing 8 hour enduros to keep the track hot and our entry fees will be $1000 weekend to pay the bills... :shock:
That mazda was a POS.
They cut the fender lips out with a blow torch and were left to rust all to sh!t.
Whoulda been a key indicator for me to look deeper into this "car".
If you have $305, and a pulse............
jb
I never took a close look at the car other than passing it on track....maybe tech didn't either?! :shock:Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffburch
Group 1 5
Group 2 15
Group 3 6
Group 4 0
Group 5 & 8 30
Group 6 & 7 26
Group 9 1
these are the car counts from MyLaps.com. i'm sure there is some error, but should be really close. not sure what group was HPDE 1-4 but w/ no lap times, it would be hard to tell from MyLaps. add to the info if you know it. my quess is G4 is HPDE 1/2, G1 is HPDE 3/4/Comp.
we have the largest race group w/ 5&8 combined. that weekend was a light weekend for CMC. i would think we would be seeing 15-20 @ every event in '07 w/ just CMC. we had 23 points collecting drivers in CMC for '06.
Wow! Looks like we only NEED 3 race groups! Wonder if we could increase DE counts and start doing a 1/2 group, a 3/4 group and a separate racecraft group that might have ride alongs with REAL racers out there with them giving check rides?!Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCMC70
Just a thought!
And Kevin, Mine won't be an AIX car....but WILL be faster if I get to keep it! :wink:
This group has the shortest memory span....
As a refresher....in '04, we ( Todd and I ) negotiated an agreement with NASA Texas - if we regularly brought 20+ cars in AIX/AI/CMC, we could get our own run group.
In '05, we continued to share with various other classes ( remember the Caterham/Birken of Pete Challinor, and the chrome fender I removed from another Caterham? ) since our car count wasn't @ 20+. At the last event of '05 ( MSR-C in Nov ), we'd gotten to the magic number ( right at 20, IIRC ) and NASA Texas stated for the '06 season, we'd have our own dedicated run group. There was a caveat - when needed, we'd help NASA and combine our group with others.
'06 was the first year we had our own dedicated run group. MSR-H in Feb of '06 was the first time we ran G5 separately, as well as the two MSR-C events in March and April.
At MSR-H in May, to help NASA get out of a time crunch/car deficit, we put G5 and G8 together. At Hallett in June, we were separate. TWS and MSR-H, we were grouped together.
To say we've been spoiled by running as our own run group for too long would be incorrect - we've done it for 4 of the 6 events in 2006, none in 2005, none in 2004, and none in 2003.
We've always been proponents of a separate run group for AIX/AI and CMC, and as a racer, I'd like to see that continue. To be perfectly honest, class/car grouping may be a deciding factor whether or not to attend an event for more than just one or two folks.
Ah...a sane voice above the din. As Clifton pointed out, we ( AIX/AI/CMC ) have no control over the groups, and who is in them. We also don't get to dictate what groups get eliminated - that is NASA Texas' responsibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Racer
Good luck with getting this group to learn patience, Clifton.Quote:
There are many things in the works for next year, try to think outside of Group 5. These things will reveal themselves in due time.
Kevin - some, not all, of the G8 drivers need to learn situational awareness. They don't realize who is around them, what class they are in, when to race someone, and when not to. AIX/AI and CMC are going for a season championship in a large group that is HIGHLY competitive - and they need to recognize that fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXAST1
We did grids based solely on qual times and finishing order for nearly 3 years, but that changed after the March '06 double-yellow debacle with some saying it was "unsafe" and "cars should grid by class only".Quote:
While were are talking here, I don't like split starts. What is the point. For me all that happens is I catch up to yous guys faster. I would like to grid where we qualify.
Run G5 only.
Run G5 and G8 together.
Split starts.
No split starts.
Flip.
Flop.
Flip.
Flop.
Flip.
Flop.
Consistency is key. Why not work with our Series Director to solidify what our wishes are so that he can take them NASA Texas??? Follow the chain of command...don't circumvent it as in the past.
I am just interested in my own best interests. So at least I am honest :wink:
I get board running around the track alone with no one to challenge me. Maybe Brady will up his game next season.
On a serious note, Group 8 does get the most drivers "New" to NASA than the other groups. It seems to be more common to have one offs that end up in group 8. That will be even more so the case as PT takes off next year. PT umbrellas over GPC under the gies of ST1 ST2 and SU. Kinda leaves the door open until I can get GPC ackowledged as a national class. :roll:
Adam,
Short memory? I've been accused of much worse so that's not a bigge. But body-slamming us on a flip flop? Where's the flip-flop here? G5 and NO G8 - simple. Fordward progress, why all of a sudden is Clifton saying "OCTOBER" is the model for next year's schedule?? Was OCTOBER something wonderful between G5 and G8? I missed it if it was.
First I've heard of this caveat thing, guess I needed to read the fine print. But Clifton spent MUCH TIME IN THE DRIVERS MEETINGS IN OCTOBER reminding EVERYONE that there were championships at stake. G8 drivers don't know us, don't know who's in CMC vs AI vs AIX much less who the CMC points leaders may or may not be so how COULD IT HAVE GONE ANY DIFFERENTLY? How could we expect a G8 driver to lift or backoff when they have no chance of knowing who the points leaders are in a respective class? That didn't work last event and won't work next year.
Keeping G5 and G8 seperate will work.
"Keeping G5 and G8 seperate will work."
___________
MIke did you not read my post? This will not be any fun for me and that is what we are talking about here! :lol:
You gotta keep'em separated.
Seriously Keep the car count up and I am am sure I'll have plenty to do with the new "Catch All" group 8. :P
Kmix,
I've got a spare CMC Mustang here in the garage. Cheap cheap (hey, it's a Mustang.) Quit playing SUO or whatever they call your car these days and get over into GROUP 5 and RACE WITH US instead of driving around burning fuel and rubber.
Who knows, might be fun to struggle for a change lol. You might enjoy it!
If there is one thing I've learned over the years of participating in DEs ...Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXAST1
Vette, Porsche and BMW drivers all think alike ... :P
Pick a cat ... any cat
http://mcnelis.biz/images/cat/kittypoker1.jpg
Look, guys...
I'm going to be candid here and not hold anything back.
I hope I don't offend anyone, but, Here's my "Top Ten" style of responding to 7 pages of posts here....
1) Mike had a valid question as to whether we would be running any 40 min. races next year. :idea:
2) The real question at hand we (Clifton/Shannon/Todd) intend to have worked out prior to January is...how many races per weekend should AI/CMC anticipate? :!: (TBD)
3) The # of races per weekend really should be our first priority, and the length of them should be secondary. 30 min races are a good compromise (between 20 & 40 min), but I don't think we need to decide length of races before R1...we do need to decide # of races before R1. :wink: FWIW...I'm not offended in any way that folks have decided to contact NASA directly. NASA TX has an "open door policy" and value customer service as a high priority. I too have been in touch with all the NASA folks working thru all of these things in parallel, so there have been no surprises or backfires. :?
4) It's amusing to watch us debate a restructured NASA weekend schedule...3 months before the next event. Can we debate how Smith, Pedersen/Marvel and Burch should prepare their cars next season now too??? :roll:
5) I'm no where near retiring...and just gettin' started!!! :evil:
6) I'm dumb & stubborn and stay with things for the long haul...in good times and bad...even moreso if I love 'em and believe in them!!! :oops:
7) I'm a NASA groupie from way-back, hung with the band when they were playing in garages...and will stick with NASA & NASA National as we march forward. 8)
8 ) Our Texas AI/CMC goals & objectives from Day 1 have not changed. We've had a very successful formula so far and I'm not about to change anything major. We've obtained our 20-car field goals and our objective will always remain to have our own AI/CMC race group. We'll revisit that when the day arrives that we approach 40 AI/X cars and 40 CMC cars...and then our objective will be to separate AI and CMC fields and run them separately back to back on the schedule. :!:
9) 2006 was a year of compromise. We all need to put our General Interest hats on and recognize that until Kevin & Jaybird (and the other racing groups) get their act together and get a full field of ~20 GPC/ETC cars together, the possibility will exist that they run with us. This will get looked at prior to each event on a case by case basis and hopefully K-Mix will spend less time on the AI/CMC forum and more time growing and nurturing his own series so we can take his training wheels off and let him ride solo with his own run group of 20+ cars. <<smack>> We lub ya' Kevin...but I had to say it! (Kidding aside...He's in transition and probably had the highest GPC/ETC car count to date at the last MSRH event...we should applaud his efforts...they can't be that far away from their own run group!!! Right??? Right??? :?: :?: :?:
10) The 2007 Texas AI/CMC Leadership Team is in place and ready to go. All discussions with those directors/coordinators and NASA, regionally and nationally, have taken place and all systems are a go. We'll certainly miss the efforts and contributions of Richard and Adam next year, but the people coming in to replace them will have more roles, more responsibilities, more authoritity and, as such, more effectiveness in these new positions. (And they'll be able to cover my ass when I'm away for any extended periods of time!!!) In the next week I'll announce more details of my team and how we're going to manage Texas AI/CMC for 2007. For those of you that were around 3 years ago, it'll look very familiar. We're gettin' back to basics and anticipate an awesome 2007 Texas AI/CMC Championship Season!!! 8) 8) 8)
IMO...2007 will be a year of "make it or break it" for Texas AI/CMC. There isn't a single person I've talked to that wants to "break it"....and therefore...we're going to MAKE IT!!! :!:
Stay tuned and Happy Motoring!!! :D
-=- Todd Covini
PS- Those new CMC rules should be out any day now...I think things got fairly settled today!!!
Gee Todd, some real eye-openers in there:
Q1: Is the number of races per weekend going from 4 down to 3?
Q2: Is the length of those races (whatever number) going to change?
Q3: Will G5 and G8 be combined now on a regular basis instead of as an exception?
We aren't debating a request to "restructure" the race weekend, we are discussing the pros/cons of the restructuring NASA TX did to our races in 2006 whey they combined G5 and G8. At first it was because "only two cars left in G8 on Sunday", then it was because "we're an hour behind because the corner workers got here late". Then it became "because there aren't many G8 cars registered". Understandable situations and I thought we all supported the decisions at the time.
But nobody came out and said "G5 and G8 are going to be combined in 2007 until G8 hits XXX number of cars per event". At least nobody said it until Clifton stated that the October schedule was the model for next year's scheduling.
Waiting till R1 of 2007 to decide some of this isn't fair to those of us who plunk down our cash in faith IMHO. Some of this can be ironed out ahead of time and we've got a little over 2 months.
A lot depends on if we are two steps forward or back. If we are in the dark ages once again, I might offer my services during the race weekends to take video from different parts of the track to capture the true essence of AI/CMC.
Otherwise, I will probably be on-track if we are forward a step or two.
I know of some good things for next year. Stay tuned!
NASA Texas appreciates the cooperation of G5 during 2006 in regards to scheduling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell
Yes, the October event will be the model. However, there was a preliminary schedule that was never released to the racers that had G5 & G8 separate. This is actually the starting template I use to make the schedule for each event.
Group 1 & 2 will remain separate.
Group 3 will be a guest group, when needed.
Group 4 gone.
Group 5 still full of goobers. <-- I keed, I keed!!
Group 6 & 7 most likely combined unless SM grows again.
Group 8 is growing - GPC, ASC, Panoz, GTS, HC should all have more cars in 2007.
Group 9 - still only 1 Time Trial session, but hopefully will grow.
Group 10 gone.
Be aware that the DE cars don't always have transponders so they will not show up on mylaps. Early entries are greatly appreciated and if you choose not to attend NASA can always transfer that fee to the next event.
Just a little info for the discussions. I think that this is a good thread and G5 will be the model Group at each event next year. No pressure, eh? :)
so why cant you fill us in on some of this? i've seen you mention it twice now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Racer
you surely dont think we are all sitting here just giddy as school girls by the shear mention of that, do you? well except for Corey. :wink:
glad to hear that the policy is to carry forward entry fee's that go unused. i'll be more willing to sign up early now. i've always waited till about a week before the late fee deadline.
C'mon Glenn, you mean you don't have access to the inner sanctum? I thought all systems were go? :D
Thanks for the info Clifton, did the "unreleased October schedule" have 4 races per weekend for Group 5? Here's why I'm asking: It would really suck if we get the Feb 07 schedule and it had G5 and G8 seperate but only 3 G5 races, then someone asks "Why only 3 races?" and the answer was "because you wanted G5 and G8 separate".
I'm not advocating "We want it all" mentality, I'm advocating "Share the hard facts that are involved in making these decisions" so we can understand the ramifications of the input we give. Otherwise, I'll get all the blame for only three races. ;)
(Or maybe that's the plan all along??? :shock: :shock: :shock: )
all I can say is guys, spill the beans on all the details by Monday...PLEASE!
I am not spending $1 on putting the car in competitive state till I see some plans...the earlier the better gang because the engine rebuild is a 60 day turn around and I need to know what we are building...AIX or AI motor!
Thanks!
Mike's got a point, as does Glenn.
All this secret squirrel stuff is OK for 10 year olds waiting for Santa Claus. But some of us are trying shake out schedules and budgets for vacations, racing, and work.
And knowing the ripple effect of a request would certainly go a long way to shelving some angst down the road. "Giv'em exactly what they ask for and then point fingers" doesn't solve anything. It makes it worse.
Curious ...
For those that have been entrenched in the SCCA for years, is this the kind of "politics" I was told existed in that organization? Is there anything we can learn from the decisions they made?
you know something i dont??? :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell
i havent gotten the phone number to the Bat Phone yet.
Not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
It is not my responsibility to make other peoples announcements for them. Just read that post with the grouping information carefully.
so what is going into Group 3?
what message board should i visit to get this info?
Some options: (if they get the numbers)
1. TSRS
2. Allison Legacys
3. FV
4. FM
5. Nothing
6. Personal driver training for the Race Director.
7. Special CMC race sponsored by Landrum brand Manties. The only Manties you'll ever need. Marshall Mosty says, "They are the most comfortable women's underwear I have ever worn!" :shock:
1. TSRS? who is this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Racer
2. cool.
3. ppppuuuuuuulllllllleeeeeeeeesssssssssss. they high car count has been a total of 4. dont see it happening.
5. if it was nothing, you would have said nothing.
6. we dont have all day. and even that would not be enough time. <how's that go? i keeeeed, i keeeeed...... right?>
7. since Jeff won the Texas Championship, his would be the #1 seller. he even has a slogan for them...."Cinch up yur Manties!".