Rule of the Day - Double Yellow Flags

Jeremiah...you were leading your class, but not the session. Your responsibility IMHO is to safely catch up to the car in front of you.

3k in 3rd is faster than can be maintained through all corners. More importantly, the faster the session lead goes, the faster everyone has to go to catch up.

MSR-C is 1.7 miles. The CMC track record is 1:24. Thats an average of only 73mph. With a lead car going ~50mph, a guy that was at the tail end of the lead lap would take over five minutes to catch up going track record speeds! The only realistic way to bunch the field is to have the session lead run true pace speed.

Just for reference, according to my Traqmate, our laps under DY were:

1:35 (catching up to pack) about 90% of the race pace but only about 85% of AI pace, they were the session leaders...
1:58
1:57

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Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Jeremiah...you were leading your class, but not the session. Your responsibility IMHO is to safely catch up to the car in front of you.

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That is my understanding and thought as well. As long as you are not 100% and not passing anyone, then you would be within the rules.

I think it really should be the responsibility of the overall race leader to slow to allow the field to catch up safely or the pace car to catch the field and slow them to allow the field to catch up.

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Originally Posted by jeremiahkellam

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Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Clifton, please elaborate...21.1 is adjustments by the race director.

I agree with you guys; double yellow should not be full speed. IMHO during DY the session leader (who damn well better know who he is, part of the responsibility of being out front, like pacing the warmup and start) should slow to pace speed (2nd gear, 3000rpm) immediately and stay at that speed. Everyone else should drive at a reduced but fast pace, observing the caution area and reducing speed significantly through that area, mainining 100% control a tall times until they catch the guy in front. Absolutely no passing unless passing emergency vehicles or a pace car with a point by.

That would minimize the need for a pace car, bunch the field quickly so as to maximize "open track" for the crews, and set up for good restarts.

Losing the lead you've built...tough shit.

Clifton, is that about right?

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I guess I'll chime in since it seems like I'm the one that messed up.

I was leading when we came out of Big Bend and saw the DY. From Al's video you can see I (and Al) slowed before the start finish. Once we got to the top of the hill and saw Jeremy's car, we slowed way down (I think there was even some debris on track I was trying to avoid near Jeremy's car. After we came out of Wagon wheel, I noticed Gleen and Rob were on it. Here is my thought process:
On Saturday, Mulder and I (and someone else was there??) had a conversation about running 40 minute races. Mulder had the idea of bringing out a DY at the 20 minute mark (competition yellow). He also said that may cause problems taking too long for the field to get bunched back up. As stated earlier, Clifton said any yellow would be treated as a DY because of the off track conditions. So as I rounded Wagon wheel and saw the DY at the next station, I did not speed up. By this time Al was nearly pushing me down the straight to little bend. So I start thinking more... If Glenn and Rob are trying to catch up to the CMC field, what about the CMC guys behind me, is it fair to hang back 50 lengths. Could we have seperate restarts like Grand Am?? After running for my life for a few laps there, dialing it back to 80% felt like we were creeping, so I felt comfortable slowing at start finsh, getting pass the wounded car, and then picking it back up.

It was another trial by fire for the rookie at MSRC. I asked both JP and Al after the race if I handled that situation properly and they said they were fine with it. Sorry if anyone else didn't approve, I'll make sure to handle it better next time I'm leading and the DY comes out... :wink:

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Jeremiah,

I was not even thinking about you. I don't think you did anything wrong I just think there is a better way. This was my first DY ever in a race and it's my fault that when I saw the DY that I slowed so much that you and James got thirty car lengths ahead of me. When I realized everyone was going way faster than I was I tried to catch up. I ran almost WFO (ask Mitch if you don't understand) and never caught all the way up to you guys. Don't worry about anything you did lets just make it better for next time.


JJ

I know this isn't Grand Am, but for reference...here's what the GA rules say about a full course yellow and bunching up the field.

GRAND AM RULES
Safety/Pace Car –
9-4.1 The Race Director may dispatch the safety car at any time during an event to neutralize the racing and correct a hazardous situation on course. The safety car will be dispatched following the activation of the in–car Delphi caution lights and the display of double yellow flags at all corner stations. The pit entrance is closed at once at this time..

9-4.2 All cars must continue to respect the flag signals around the course and exercise extra caution in the area of the full course yellow incident. Otherwise all cars must close up to the rear of the line of cars behind the safety car as quickly as possible

9-4.3 Where possible, the safety car will be dispatched in front of the leader. It is the responsibility of the lead car to reduce speed to a level that will allow the safety car to safely enter the track in front of the lead car as well as allow the balance of the competitors to close up in single file in the shortest time possible. On the initial out lap or
as soon as the race director deems it safe to do so, the safety car will wave by any cars in front of the leader in order to achieve this.

With limited or non-existent in-car communications, how does the lead car knows he or she is driving the lead car?

Slowing to allow safe entry for the pace car risks losing positions.

Our pace car is a freaking C5 Z06 ... STAND ON IT JC!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

With limited or non-existent in-car communications, how does the lead car knows he or she is driving the lead car?

Slowing to allow safe entry for the pace car risks losing positions.

Our pace car is a freaking C5 Z06 ... STAND ON IT JC!!!!!!!!

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This should be handled by the corner workers noting the lead car's number on the board and displaying it as soon as the DY comes out.
That solves it for the lead car, the car's immediately following and for all cars being waved by.

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how does the lead car knows he or she is driving the lead car?

Slowing to allow safe entry for the pace car risks losing positions

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I think 90% of the times the session lead has no excuse for not knowing if they are the session lead. That said, this is yet another great example why an information broadcast and ability to hear it ought to be required.

If the pace car is about to come out, the double yellow has already been thrown. Therefore, there is no risk of losing positions.

so two events in a row this has been an issue. Clifton made it perfectly clear in the Sunday Driver's meeting, that DY equals 40% pace behind the lead car of the session.

Maybe that needs to be reiterated at each driver's meeting for the folks who weren't there this past weekend. I do like Brian's idea of the corner stations pointing out to the lead car of the session with a thumbs up or a point so they know they are lead car. Usually it will be me :wink: but if group 7 is there, it may require more work.

Funny how my statements on 3/25 came to fruition in R1 Saturday Morning.... :lol:

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

Our pace car is a freaking C5 Z06 ... STAND ON IT JC!!!!!!!!

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Who stopped to gander a lost bird dog :lol:

jb