Rule of the Day - "racing room"

You're right! After reading Gary's reply I realized I had that part wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

If there's anything I'm good at, it's being passed. :D

Good discussion on what is absolutely the most complex part of the ammateur racing rules. This is why we form Incident Review Boards for anything but the simplest of incidents and why every driver has a right to not one but two appeals.

We'll go over the evolution of a pass with Todd's toy cars at Hallett. We did it at nationals and it was very useful so that everyone knew how the IRBs would look at things.

Good video for content.

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Originally Posted by evarner

From the 3/4 rule going into T3 (TWS) to "who has the line" after a pass on the front straight (can't really see it, but I was all the way in front for a few nanoseconds). I probably held JB out longer than he wanted, but it was my line. Another pass on AN orange car that could possibly be viewed as chopping his nose a bit.

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But even if you had the lead for a nanosecond, didn't JB quickly re-establish position? To me it looks like you drove in deep and took a far-track right line simultaneously to JB drawing back up next to you.

THIS orange car might expect that since I just dove under the other guy, one that I know is fast, that his/her preferred line could put them very close to me at apex. That's what caused very minor contact at Hallett last year, i was driving the right hand edge of the track and a passing car just hit the nose with rear bumper cover. 3/4 rule says i have to brake/move/avoid the contact~if I had it to do again, a quick tap of the brakes would have caused a miss.

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Originally Posted by Mitchntx

The question is, though. Had you not gotten on the brakes as hard as you did, your left front tire would have most likely been at JB's door ... would you have been at fault if contact had occurred? (over aggressive driving) or JB? (not giving enough room)

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That's my question as well. It happens pretty quickly, but I lean toward JB having re-established position and it "looks" like he left you racing room, especially considering where you placed your car. Maybe it felt/was closer than I saw in the video.

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Originally Posted by evarner

Action packed - at no time did I think JB was going to hit me and I don't think he thought I was going to hit him - even though we were inches apart.

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And I think to some degree that is earned as much as given. Even for guys with no brake lights. 8)

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Originally Posted by King of Cars Al

We'll go over the evolution of a pass with Todd's toy cars at Hallett.

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Thanks; so Todd's bringing the 2?

Sorry to muck up with puddle when it's just starting to settle, but doesn't the 3/4 car width rule and CCR Fig 12 contradict each other?

My interpretation of the 3/4 rule and Glenn's last post say Car A can dictate the line as long as he leaves Car B at least 3/4 car width, BUT Fig 12 says "A" is at fault for contact even if "B" comes in too hot or chooses a late turn-in... that sounds alot like "B" is dictating the line even though he hasn't completed the pass.

Is it just me or is Fig 12 inviting dive bombs. :?

http://i998.photobucket.com/albums/a...r/ccrfig12.jpg

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Originally Posted by evarner

Another pass on the orange car that could possibly be viewed as chopping his nose a bit.

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Wow - memory lane. That orange car was me. I think it was my second NASA weekend. Not to worry Eric - no nose-chopping: I was way slow, and basically staying out of folks' way. :)

-chris

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Originally Posted by Crumpacker

My interpretation of the 3/4 rule and Glenn's last post say Car A can dictate the line as long as he leaves Car B at least 3/4 car width, BUT Fig 12 says "A" is at fault for contact even if "B" comes in too hot or chooses a late turn-in... that sounds alot like "B" is dictating the line even though he hasn't completed the pass.

Is it just me or is Fig 12 inviting dive bombs. :?

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The difference that I see in that figure is car B is now ahead of car A. The upper hand has changed.

That's one thing I dislike about those diagrams, is too much changes from 2 to 3 etc. Much like tuning a car, only one change should occur to get the point across. I think this is key when Al/Todd/Glenn use the scale cars as examples. Start with the two cars going around the corner and no relative change in postion occurs, then build from there.

I think the "car talk" should occur during the party Saturday night.

Car talk... Dr. Frank stories... Car talk... Dr. Frank stories... Hmm... tough decision. 8)

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Originally Posted by Alien

The difference that I see in that figure is car B is now ahead of car A. The upper hand has changed.

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According to the rules, it's not about the "upper hand" but rather "Overtaking/Being Overtaken", and those roles don't change until a pass has been fully completed. See Glenn's post:

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

You are not the leading car until you complete the pass as in your rear bumper clears his front bumper... you cannot force claim to territiory you do not control at that time.

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Change the diagram to both cars side by side entering the corner with "Car A" mid track and "Car B" contacting "Car A" due to too much speed --- I still read Fig 12 as blaming "Car A" and I feel this is incorrect.

Now switch roles, and the pass is being made on the outside by Car B, Car A slides into B due to too much speed. My discussion with other drivers and directors netted with fault on the overtaken car "A" for not slowing enough to use the room left by overtaking car "B" (which was more than a car width, but less than he could have given). It was agreed both times that the low percentage pass by Car B was ill advised, but fault still lay with Car A. I've been in this situation twice now (once as A, and once as B) so I'm very curious to your interpretations.

Maybe I should just wait 'till Todd pulls out the toy chest... :wink:

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Originally Posted by Alien

Car talk... Dr. Frank stories... Car talk... Dr. Frank stories... Hmm... tough decision. 8)

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Dr. Frank stories for sure! "rules" car talk is for the interwebs.