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I mentioned this a few weeks ago...Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennCMC70
Drop HPDE entirely. There are plenty of organizations doing HPDE.
Instead, have one group of Racecraft students. Partner with other organizations to insure a steady supply of Racecraft students who've outgrown HPDE lapping sessions.
The fact is, NASA in a racing organization. I've never felt that HPDE really was a good fit, especially when Racecraft students are mixed in.
I did my second DE ever back in 2001 with NASA TX. I wasn't on the track with RaceCraft students. HPDE4 is the group for that. Once I stepped up and entered Racecraft (2 years later) out of all 20+ HPDE 4 students, only 3 of us were RaceCraft back then. Not one problem with it that I recall.
"The fact is"??? Yeah, right - according to who's book of facts???
i too did a few DE's w/ NASA. i dont think NASA should put alot of focus in DE's though. how much is "alot"? who knows. but the wheel-2-wheel part of NASA is what makes them different from other DE orgs. that difference is the ONLY reason NASA is here today. therefore, racing is what should be the focus of NASA.
i did 90% of my DE's from 1999 to 2004 w/ someone other than NASA. and there was a good reason. but when it came time to go racing, NASA had what i wanted. racing class's that kept spending in check.
This is getting WAY off topic ....
BUt I think that DE's should pay the bills. And there is no reason for it not too. There are LOTS of folks on the waiting list of TDE and they have 10-12 weekends a year.
The problem is ... time. No way to get 2 or 3 run groups of DEs and then the 15 race groups NASA-Tx tries to accommodate.
Solution?
Book 12 dates a year and offer DE run groups at each. But only designate 6 as AI/CMC/GPC/whatever and the other 6 as Miata/RX7/Open wheel/whatever.
We get more run time, NASA-Tx gets more revenue.
I should be president of this whole thing ...
I like 4 30's. Sounds like a fun.
Mitch: I've heard that the number of events were cut back as some of last year's were not profitable. I guess to make 12 profitable, other factors would have to change to improve car counts. And yeah, I was thinking of you for president just recently.
Boudy
Mitch is spot-on. "Warren for President!"Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
HPDE's "fill the pipe" and racers come out the other end.
The West Coast has nearly 12 events and over 300 cars at each event. The race groups only attend some of those events and the HPDE folks look on the "visiting" race groups like rock stars.
I started in HPDE and never-ever thought that I'd race.
(I'm a lover...not a racer.)
...and so it goes for many, many of the HPDE students.
Not everyone gets "distilled" into a racer, however, with a much bigger feeder pool, you're always ensured to have some racers coming out of the mix.
Relying on other HPDE organizations to bring in our Racecraft students to feed our racing groups is a "path frought with peril".
-=- T
If you scale back, you lose participants, especially if you begin chopping their track time.
Think about it .... why would I go to a DE with NASA at $285 and less track time (140 minutes and 20 minutes combined) when I could go to TDE for $275 with more track time (200 minutes ... 8 25 minute sessions)?
Also, limiting the number of visits to a track makes limits a DE student's ability to schedule. DE participants aren't dedicated racers ... they find a hole in their schedlue and look at what's available, instead of teh other way around.
So reducing the number of event weekends just drives away customers, not fill the coffers. Think about it ... why is that Schwallenberg can sell out 12 events a year and NASA-Tx can't make car count in 6?
Dealing with hours in a day is interesting... From my year of instructing with NASA, I have noticed that HPDE 1/2 (Group 1) and HPDE 3/4 (Group 2) are MUCH smaller on Sunday as they were on Saturday. Most HPDE 2 drivers are at the point where they don't necessarilly want an instructor so I would vote to move HPDE 1/2 and 3/4 together for at least two of the afternoon Sunday sessions. That would open up a total of 50 minutes of Sunday track time to lengthen other groups races. We could all run 2 30's on Sunday if NASA adopts this type of format.
Just my opinion, as an observer...
good points Marshall.
I just got off the phone with Shannon regarding my post. I sent it to her in an email prior to my call so she could see what we were discussing.
Here are the main points of our conversation:
1. HPDE 1/2 and 3/4 cannot be combined for the entire weekend due to a conflict with the national NASA philosophy of HPDE and RaceCraft. Also, insurance compliance can be an issue with mixing RaceCraft with beginner HPDE.
2. Shannon did say that we "may" be able to group them together for one session on Sunday afternoon. This would gain us approx 25 minutes for the organization.
3. NASA TX is getting a "coordinator" for the HPDE/Time Trials/RaceCraft groups to try and grow the "feeder" groups to eventually bring more racers to the race groups.
4. We discussed the issue with the amount of “hot track” during the racing day. I expressed “our” concern regarding having the track go hot so late in the morning and go cold relatively early in the evening.
Shannon said that she and Clifton were going to discuss this and try everything in their power to maximize the amount of track time everyone receives during a race weekend.
5. The NASA TX website is being revised to add profile sections and to add a “info” section for the different tracks we race at to give racers information regarding specifics about the way the tracks work.
a. What time to the gates close on Friday?
b. Can cars be dropped off Friday night? If so, is there a charge.
c. Are pets allowed on the premises?
d. What time is the track allowed to go hot? (Noise restrictions, emergency crew availability, etc.)
e. What time does the track go cold?
6. The website will “hopefully” also include a “bio” section to help introduce the racers to those watching from cyberspace. Putting names with faces with cars and with their outside of racing life will help grow our series when everyone sees that we are all normal people… except for Corey… :D
7. Problems/Concerns/Suggestions cannot be resolved unless they are brought to NASA’s attention. I know that our dispute resolution protocol is to go through our series director, but I personally think that if you have a suggestion for NASA directly, you can send an email directly to Shannon. She answered mine in 15 minutes and we were on the phone within 30 minutes of me sending the email. Pretty prompt service, IMHO.
If “we” bring criticism or concern, it is much more helpful to NASA TX to also bring a proposed solution, or at least a rough idea of how to solve the problem. Just bitching and saying “I don’t like ABC for 123 reason” doesn’t help solve the problem.
8. Shannon is trying to work out all the rough “improvements” for NASA TX 2007 before December 15th. She and Jay will be out of the country for a few weeks on vacation in Switzerland…. lucky…..
9. Shannon did say that both she and Jay were going to try very hard to make our banquet. Current obligations have them in Austin Saturday morning, but they hope to be able to drive up for the banquet that evening.
It was a very productive conversation. I just expressed my ideas, concerns, and suggestions on behalf of our group. I mainly just talked about how to maximize our track time since we are the “premiere” group for NASA TX now that Spec Bumble Bee isn’t as strong as it used to be.
Hopefully what I discussed didn’t ruffle anyone’s feathers. I didn’t mean to if it did. If it did, take some valium or something and calm down…
See you guys at the banquet… hopefully 4 30’s are in our future!!!