MSR-H Turn 17

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Originally Posted by Racebrat

Hey Guys-

I have been reading this thread and have been having some of the same thoughts as y'all. The next SCCA event there is the Double National Feb 16-18. I'll try to get down there and report back on this particular topic after the weekend but if I don't make it I will definately give some drivers a call that I know will be there and get their views.

Don't forget that in addition to all the melee in turn 17 this past weekend, a SM flipped there after hitting that tire wall at our race in October.

I'm on board and agree with y'all 100% and will do whatever I can to help find a solution.

A

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so what is the input from the other racing class's? HPDE?

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Originally Posted by MCain

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Originally Posted by CMC17

From Al Mitchell:

... All tracks have corners that have limited room on exit i.e. TWS, TMS, Mid-Ohio, etc, fortunately we just have one. ...

Sincerely,

Al Mitchell"[/i]

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I can only think of two at TWS that are remotely limited, T9 and T15. Wall impacts after T15 are pretty uncommon, and supposedly the tire wall at the exit of T9 is going to be moved back because ...da da dum... people were hitting it.

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And he, quite literally, means people. Coupla motorcycle guys separated from their rides during a race, slid under the airbag wall, and contacted tires and metal feet first. Lots of broken bones.

TWS is taking it seriously and has made plans to move the wall back with CMRA and other bike organizations input. At the last MSC, the guys that are going to do the work were out assessing the area.

A track layout change, like what was done with Turn 17, shouldn't be made solely to increase the comfort of a customer in the pits. A change that significant should be made only in the interest of increased safety to all concerned and with all aspects of increased safety addressed. Telling people to slow down through 17 is good advice and all, but crap happens. I know there was debris all through that corner during the GPC, etc. race. We had a gap about 3/4 of a car width and a foot or so off the apex that was relatively debris free and you had to keep it tight coming out of 16 for entry ,as well, because the entire outside of the track covered with chunks.

Yep, T9 scares the hell outta me.
My fault for walking the track back in '85.

jb

Trash on the track nearly ALL the time, problem, track design problem, I don't really think so.

If MSR-H had had turns 16 & 17 set up this way since they first opened the track would there be all this? I think it is the fact that it changed.

Don't get me wrong, dirt and water on the track are a big hazard in 16 & 17 and should be fixed.

For everyone that went to Mid Ohio, remember turn 11, if you are running 10/10ths, don't pinch the corner, and run the CORRECT line you have 6 feet at track out from the concrete wall, put 2 off at track out and you are into a concrete barrier. But, that was how it was set up when we got there, and we just dealt with it. And just for the record, some 11 cars got into that wall in the week we were there and suffered some major damage.

Don't blast me, just my opinion.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Waco Racer

There was a Spec Miata that flipped in the tire wall at the October event, as well as, other people that hit it in the other events. The driver of the SM is a very experienced driver, so it happens to the best of us(?). I track out right next to the wall and never had a problem until the surface condition changed. Only once did it get too close for comfort. The wall was moved to allow for more pit spaces at the SCCA enduro last year. Track surface condition is the real problem with that part of the track. If you happened to notice, the tire bundles on grid had slits and water in them. I would rather have the wall extended around to help separate pit lane than have the wall moved back. However, both would be nice.

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All tracks have their problem areas, it is up to us a drivers to be aware and adapt... remember the video posted just last year where the BMW got airbourn do to the new access road at Mid Ohio??? as to the cuts in the tires, Cooper did that to prevent the tires from being stolen and used on MY pickup... opps did I say that... Really tho the tires were purchased by or donated to Champcar... I went to the track yesterday and testing has already begun

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Originally Posted by oz98cobra

And what about DE orgs? That track isn't going to be very popular with any of them if folks in street cars start smacking that wall on a regular basis! :shock:

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Jason and Cousin Todd ran the Neon for a total of 13 sessions and had no problems... HOWEVER they were not racing for position or "racing" at all for that matter... I, on the other hand, went out for two sessions first one was spent in the mud after sliding all the way to the tire wall, the second almost resulted in contact with the infamous wall @ 17 when I attempted to beat Jason's fast lap for the weekend... He won :evil:

Opinions from those that weren't racing last weekend hold little to no merit IMHO. Ten cars were damaged within minutes/hours at that same location and it's still not perfectly clear there is a problem? Unless you experienced it last weekend in a racing environment, then you guys have no idea what it was like.


Round of "I told you so" will be in order next time out from the stands. Have fun out there...but not me, it's too dangerous for those that are actually racing.

I've been on that track several times, no, I wasn't there last weekend, but this track is not new to me.

Rookie driver in a Miata got in to the wall at 17, he was driving one of MY cars, his words "I tried to drive the same line as in October and it didn't work".

You don't have to be there in your "racing environment" to know what happened "IMHO" as you put it.

Just trying to lengthen the post;

1st, I can not attend the SCCA Double National because the SCCA has rendered my Corvette unraceable without thousands of dollars spent to make it slower and heavier. B Prepared was supposed to be "Club WCGT" but they had to through in some "Extras."

Just a note, many of the legandary older tracks that have "Death Walls" are removing them and changing the tracks to make them safer.

Yup, Road Atlanta is one.
Seems as though the AMA Superbikes have some considerable influence these days.

jb