NASA CCR's and section 27.12

Jerry really said it well about knowing the mindset of who we are running with. This is just another area of things that I am learning about which wasn't covered in DE/Racecraft.

Mitch-I don't think you have done me any disservice by starting behind CMC. I can honestly tell you that I wasn't ready to start a race at the front of the field. I still would have asked to be at the back as I didn't feel I had enough experience after 4 races and only 4 weekends experience prior to racing. I do agree that it can be an invaluable lesson in learning to deal with traffic though I do wonder how often contact is made during an invert versus a normal field based on qualifying?

I agree with JB that it is tons of fun. Though I do find it interesting that JB doesn't remember a race without contact. Nice video JB-nice clean passes on the cobra's and the guy behind you didn't risk a move that might take both of you out. You say that is how it is suppossed to be but it seems that isn't how it usually happens.

It does seem that everyone has accepted that contact is going to happen to them and contact will happen in every race and is just something everyone has to deal with in their own terms. Whether its because I tried a low percentage move, my tire went flat, I can't control my car, the other guy cut me off, I was just mad and punted someone, etc. really doesn't seem to matter as it is just a mistake and a part of racing.
It seems to really come down to how many or how bad the mistakes are? One could look at the Spec Miata's from the Houston race in which 7 cars were damaged and 3 had to be on flatbeds and say that is acceptable as that is racing. While others may feel any contact is unacceptable. Its just where is the line in the sand drawn?

I am just learning how the "system" operates and what the repercussions are. Which leads me to money. In the event of contact does anyone ever have to pay to fix another persons car? Does anyone make a riskier move on a person because their car or the car they are passing already has damage and it won't matter as much compared to a car that is spotless?

Mitch-I understand your last post but humor me. Since there are some drivers that you aren't comfortable running side by side with. Is it safe to assume that you may let certain drivers by as you are afraid they may hit you? If so I think that driver has a definite unfair advantage?? This is somewhat along the lines of what Al stated. I am curious if the person who makes a low percentage move on someone who doesn't want contact really is the subject of IRB's. Or do they slide by because someone doesn't want to risk being hit or that if contact does occur it is chalked up to a racing incident and par for the course? I had never thought of this until some of these posts and remembering that I did a point by at TWS as I wasn't sure about the person behind me.

Bryan

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

So where is the currect spreadsheet (showing points that have been given out for contact)?

JJ

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I was just curious where I stood if we were counting and posted the results. There is nothing official as far as I know.

And then Chris wanted to start counting things like door dings ...


And I'm glad you brought up Club vs Pro racing.

I'm as guilty as the anyone for jumping on either of those band-wagons, typically when it's to my benefit. Consequently, I think we lose focus.

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Originally Posted by BryanL

Mitch-I understand your last post but humor me. Since there are some drivers that you aren't comfortable running side by side with. Is it safe to assume that you may let certain drivers by as you are afraid they may hit you? If so I think that driver has a definite unfair advantage?? This is somewhat along the lines of what Al stated. I am curious if the person who makes a low percentage move on someone who doesn't want contact really is the subject of IRB's. Or do they slide by because someone doesn't want to risk being hit or that if contact does occur it is chalked up to a racing incident and par for the course? I had never thought of this until some of these posts and remembering that I did a point by at TWS as I wasn't sure about the person behind me.

Bryan

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Bingo!

It might be because of experience, being zealous, previous encounters or something as simple as closing speed.

I find myself in a "non-comfort zone" when the AI cars catch me.

Typically, they are in heated battles and I don't want to screw up their race, if it doesn't screw up mine.

I hope that I've had enough on-track time with them that I have become predictable and they know that I know they are there. I admit, I get surprised sometimes and have been lucky so far.

Now, being predictable has it's down side, too. Ask SchuVarner about NPR ... :x 8) I learned a valuable lesson that day.

Bryan, in the deleted post, I said ALL contact is avoidable. I believe that and I won't be swayed from it.

I also believe that in a racing environment, both drivers involved in a contact incident have culpability. While the CCR may point blame, all drivers involved have a responsibility to those around them.

Remember, we aren't driving to sunday school.

And by "involved" I mean ...

Car A and Car B are nose to tail with car B trailing car A. Car C has a nose just inside the rear bumper of Car B.

Car A brakes hard at a point car B is not expecting and swerves into car C.

A initiated the event, but had no contact
B cut C off and knocked C off track
C didn't have position And therefore had no right to a piece of the track

Technically, A is free and clear as no contact was made. But wouldn't car A have some responsibility in the incident, regardless?

And during the IRB, A's on track behavior was factored in, it would probably be deemed a "racing incident" and no blame assigned. Does that make B and C feel better?

That's why I said a driver's actions cause reactions to occur to those behind him and it's important for a driver to factor those reactions in as he is deciding what he/she is gonna do.

Guys, seat time, on track, with this group is going to be the only thing that is going to fix your fears about racing. Take if from someone who was in your position saying the same things just 3 years ago when I started racing with this group. Give it time, relax and get to know your fellow drivers on and off the track. Don't listen to anyone else or let them put pre-determined negativity into your heads. This is your investment in effort and time and trust me, you ARE going to have fun with this group...especially once you get up to speed and start racing as close as the rest of us. You will start seeing the reward is MUCH more than "$.50" medals. Getting out of the car after a race completely jacked up because you just spent 20 minutes 4" from another car, high fivin' in the pits is what this is all about.

Over time, you are going to get more comfortable behind the wheel doing the things we do. It's a HUGE difference from HPDE because you are closer, passing in corners and looking for an opening to make a pass. You will only get comfortable with that over time just the same way you did going from the street to HPDE's...

Be patient, prep your cars, prep the driver, drive smart and trust your fellow competitors in this group and we are going to have one hell of a good time! 8)

Matt, you're awesome dude.
Your second calling is motivational speaker.
Were you a cheerleader at TAMU?
Please use "in a van down by the river" in your next post :)

jb

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Originally Posted by jeffburch

Matt, you're awesome dude.
Your second calling is motivational speaker.
Were you a cheerleader at TAMU?
Please use "in a van down by the river" in your next post :)

jb

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It's Yell Leader...and no. :D

With all the shit I have been through over the last two years having nearly been left "living in a VA-AN, DOWN by the river...or Cerca De el Rio!", I have matured and come to the realization to not sweat the small stuff...and that everything is small stuff. I see these guys having the same frustrations I did and don't want them to make the same mistakes I ALMOST made and leave the group or alienate yourself to the "outside".

All this is worth it guys, trust us, or we wouldn't still be doing it!!!!

OK ... who has hacked Matt's account. Covini? That you?

:P

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Originally Posted by jeffburch

Matt, you're awesome dude.
Were you a cheerleader at TAMU?

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Welcome to Baskin Robbins, our ice cream scooping experts are here to help you!! Would you like a single or double scoop? :lol:

Mitch-Great explanation about being aware of your actions causing different reactions. Those are the kinds of things that I am glad I am attempting to learn now rather than after an on track incident.

Matt-I appreciate the pep talk but I am not thinking of leaving the group. I am simply trying to learn and understand things that aren't in the CCR and you don't learn in an HPDE session. It just happens that this lesson in understanding concerns contact. Like Jerry said there is no right or wrong answer concerning contact, but simply having the understanding of what to expect and what is expected in "club" racing. I certainly don't want contact but now have a better understanding of how commonplace and somewhat acceptable it is.

I have tried to absorb as much information as possible while at the track, on the computer at home or anytime I am around or on the phone with someone in the group. I have even been reading a book on racing and I could probably count on my left hand the amount of books I have read since college.