Rear spring rates for Fox body

Daron is right about that camber, too much and you give up alot of braking. i'm slowly dialing out camber and dialing in caster, all the while increasing front grip in the corner and under braking. i'll also be announcing a custom bushing to aid in this.

so, lots of camber to make up for soft rates that gives body roll in turn gives camber loss. and lots of camber causes less stopping ability.
sounds like a dog chasing his tail to me. something needs to give. control body roll. how? buy upping spring rates and or sway bars. if there is not enough sway bar available from the factory offerings, make it up in spring rates.

interesting info Daron, thanks.

It's easy to explain how to get to mars. Getting there is another story.

Someone needs to step up and apply the theory.

Anyone? Hello??

This thing on? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Originally Posted by SmackDaddy

It's easy to explain how to get to mars. Getting there is another story.

Camber and lack of braking? Hmmm... good thing 17 has lots of camber so it can outbrake everyone. Whew! Glad we got that cleared up. :D Yes, even #70 doesn't stand a chance...especially T16 in Houston. 8) 8)

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so what is it, ford = better or gm = better, i'm not following your mood swings.
and as for T16, well part of getting into it, is being sure you can get out of it. sorry, you left that door open.

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

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Originally Posted by SmackDaddy

It's easy to explain how to get to mars. Getting there is another story.

Camber and lack of braking? Hmmm... good thing 17 has lots of camber so it can outbrake everyone. Whew! Glad we got that cleared up. :D Yes, even #70 doesn't stand a chance...especially T16 in Houston. 8) 8)

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so what is it, ford = better or gm = better, i'm not following your mood swings.
and as for T16, well part of getting into it, is being sure you can get out of it. sorry, you left that door open.

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They make medication that can help you with those mood swings. :D

GM's suck at braking, but that's about it. You guys get all out of control and not sure if it's the car or driver. lol

You collective - attached at the hip types need to get together and build a Mustang. Sounds like you guys have it all figured out on paper. Good luck to ya. <snickers>

yep, your the man. i'll send the media your way.

They've been all over trying to find that "Verner" guy. No luck thus far.

Yep.. I didn't need T-shirts to tell me that either. roflol <I kiiiiid!!>

Mars! Lets go to Mars!! Who's the captain? :lol: :lol:

Ok girls break it up....back on topic.

Daron...you're correct, that setup is definately "old school". I've played with the setup you've explained...lowered it...stiffened up...played with roll center...had a torque arm (they were legal for a season or two way back when)...spring rates....panhard bar....locker rear...worked camber from 2.5 degrees out to 4 degrees and back again....blah...blah...blah.

In the end, the fastest setup (FOR ME) was what I have.
It's the lowest maintenance...universal setup for every track I go to.
Sure...I know I'm leaving something on the table by not tuning to each track I go to. But (FOR ME), not having to work on the car and having consistent top 5s is more important than a few wins...and a few 10ths.

I commend all of the Texas CMC drivers for working so hard on their setups. This is what has made this group so fast and stand out to the rest of the country! Keep it up! But for me....I'll stick to the tried & true...tweak a bit as the car hopefully comes back together....and continue to give any top 3 cars a run for their money, whenever I come back!!!

-=- Todd

PS- Watch NASCAR at Sears Point (Infineon) some day. Those guys have figured out how to make pigs of cars roll & bite on a road course. It ain't pretty...but it sure is fast.

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Someone needs to step up and apply the theory.

Anyone? Hello??

This thing on? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Just hold on a minute. If these cars have been developed to full potential, as I'm being told, then someone here has test data to support or refute Daron's suggestion.

Anyone? Hello???

This thing on?

Sorry but sarcasm and "I tried but it didn't work for me" just doesn't make cars faster. Give data, proof, or even simple logic to support your statements for dirt's sake. Those of us left behind don't really want to waste money testing when test data is out there. I respect your opinion but damn, give something that supports it. If rule changes are truely needed then fine but we can't storm the gate claiming, "Cause we say so."

Boudy

Boudy,
I think the "magic number" is actually a range. Everyone could easily conclude that a Mustang with super soft or ultra stiff hooptie suspension won't work well for W2W racing. That narrows down the tuning a bit. You can return the hydraulics I know you were keeping your eye on.

A given platform will work well with a range of "fine" settings once you get the "rough" setting correct.

The rough setting would be something like:
1. Get car down to 3150 (for a Mustang)

2. Try and push as much weight to the center of the car... and low (within ballast constraints, etc.)

3. Stiffen the car to the hilt (good subframe connectors, well built welded-in cage)

4. Buy a proven suspension setup for the rear (Griggs or MM)

5. Get the track width as wide as possible (SN95 front arms with 96+ spindles in the front and SN95 axles in the rear)

6. Get the front track as far forward as possible using offset delrin bushings.

7. Get a good set of struts/shocks (probably either Koni DA's or Bilstein Race Valve)

8. Bump steer the car

9. Corner weight with as much adjustment as you can (rubber or polyurethane spring insulators as "legal" spacers for both front and rear springs)

10. **my opinion** run a small front bar (4 cyl) and a stiffer spring up front.

11. Run a good set of rear lower control arms with a spherical bearing at one end (MM has a set). This will reduce some of the bind in the stock 4-link rear suspension.

12. Have the car aligned properly to maximize tire contact patch in the front during braking (as Glenn said, try and dial out as much negative camber as the car will let you. This will help braking but hurt corner speeds... fine line)

13. Run a "legal" front splitter or air dam (Ranger air dam works very well for a $25 piece of plastic)

14. Box the radiator so you can limit the air flowing around the radiator. This will maximize cooling and allow you to close down the open area in the front of the car, reducing drag (think NASCAR qualifying with all the tape over their radiators to decrease aero drag)

15. Within the rules, try and get the front fenders as far out as you can to divert the air around the front tire instead of having the air hit it head-on.

16. Choose a brake pad that suits your driving style (initial bite and release characteristics are key)

17. Adjust your brake proportioning valve to keep the car balanced when trail braking.



I didn't mention anything about actual spring rates. That's a black art that Glenn and Mitch have worked out nicely for their cars. Finding the right spring rate for a given platform (including driver) is just a go to the track and drive... change springs and drive again... repeat.... affair.

If I were to suggest a starting point for springs (outside the CMC box and coming from an AI guy) I'd say that the H&R "super race" front springs with a "sport" rear spring would be a good starting point given the amount of weight removed from a factory trunk area is larger than the amount from the engine bay (by percentage)... however, this is just my opinion.

Fine tuning would be :

1. Tire pressures
2. Sway bar end link preload
3. Rear end differential choice
4. Rear end gear ratio choice
5. Sneaky Pete NOS system
6. Driving style

I can't think of anything else on the car at this point unless you want to make the car super slippery with umpteen coats of Zaino... wait... that's Glenn's secret to sucess!!!

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