What Class for 2010 - Do over.

Gary's request is the reason this is so hard. the best option is one that involves the 305TPI set-up. if its just not possible, then the other options are a possible solution. i dont think we are there yet. i think it would be ok to go ahead and make that option legal for those who are willing to go that route, but we should still be working towards a solution that involes the use of the 305TPI in the mean time.

right now i would like to see some dyno info from a 5 speed car w/ a 305 and LT1 intake modified to fit a rear mounted distributor. same w/ a 3rd gen 350. results w/ aftermarket cams are OK since its likely the 305 will need it to get there. i spent hours on ThirdGen.org yesterday. lots of threads w/ how to modify the LT1 intake, but no dyno resuts.

I would really be interested in seeing dyno graphs for:

CMC 302

CMC 305

CMC 2 302

CMC 2 350


I have no clue if this information has been presented before, but would be nice to see the curves for each listed above.

To me, there in-lies the real issue.

A decision was made to include later model packages with little regard or forethought about the ramifications.

Now it requires the racer/owner to invest in R&D to find a "fix". The money invested might or might not be the answer. And if its not, I'm hundreds or thousands in and at square 1.

Those odds suck especially when they have been dumped in someones lap.

I'll offer up the dyno data I have for my 305. I have the actual Dynojet files, so using their free viewer it is easy to compare different runs.

Question to Al and Glenn; can you guys get test mule dynos for anyone using the tweaked 305 and the info generated from Shotz on the L98 TPI?

Anyone in this region willing to share their LT1 data?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

To me, there in-lies the real issue.

A decision was made to include later model packages with little regard or forethought about the ramifications.

Now it requires the racer/owner to invest in R&D to find a "fix". The money invested might or might not be the answer. And if its not, I'm hundreds or thousands in and at square 1.

Those odds suck especially when they have been dumped in someones lap.

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in the past there were a number of folks who were willing to do just that to help resolve the problem. the directors were well on thier way to seeing results from the folks who volunteered. then National stepped in and changed the rules. we now have only a couple folks doing the tests. on eis a 350 TPI and is like not going to be allowed. the otheris a 305 TPI and is close to the number, but not where i would call a done deal.
it made 235/302 w/ a bad injector and will be dynoe at Nats w/ and expected 245/305. those are not perfect numbers, but the 4th gen doesnt always make perfect numbers. i've seen them come up 15 short on the HP or TQ side more often that i care to count. those cars did just fine like that and no sympathy was ever given to them because of it.
anyways. moving on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

A decision was made to include later model packages with little regard or forethought about the ramifications.

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herein lies the problem... this is not the only issue caused by the lack of forethought... the tire deal is another example

I thought this CMC2 deal was to let the 4th gen and sn95 guys uncork the motors and use more of the car's potential. Had I know it was more in line with weeding out the "old" cars then I wouldn't have TWO donor cars that are basically worthless, now... I came into this series because CMC was a low budget entry level series. NOW I have to add and extra 20% to my initial build to put a new motor and tranny in a 3rd gen just because to people running the show are either idiots or have no concern for the people they hurt.

some of you are wondering why do I care, I'm running AI. I didn't intend to run AI, I just couldn't pass on a complete race car with trailer for $7K

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wirtz

I'll offer up the dyno data I have for my 305. I have the actual Dynojet files, so using their free viewer it is easy to compare different runs.

Question to Al and Glenn; can you guys get test mule dynos for anyone using the tweaked 305 and the info generated from Shotz on the L98 TPI?

Anyone in this region willing to share their LT1 data?

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Jeff - i have many dyno jet files for my motor. shoot me a email at Glenn_Landrum at msn dot com.
i'll see if i can get the same data from the 3rd gen testers. Mike Plum is the tester for the 305 and Dave Shotz is the 350 guy. both are TPI set-ups.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by David Love AI27

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

A decision was made to include later model packages with little regard or forethought about the ramifications.

---

herein lies the problem... this is not the only issue caused by the lack of forethought... the tire deal is another example

I thought this CMC2 deal was to let the 4th gen and sn95 guys uncork the motors and use more of the car's potential. Had I know it was more in line with weeding out the "old" cars then I wouldn't have TWO donor cars that are basically worthless, now... I came into this series because CMC was a low budget entry level series. NOW I have to add and extra 20% to my initial build to put a new motor and tranny in a 3rd gen just because to people running the show are either idiots or have no concern for the people they hurt.

some of you are wondering why do I care, I'm running AI. I didn't intend to run AI, I just couldn't pass on a complete race car with trailer for $7K

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you still have CMC as a place to race. its not gone. and i think a easy low cost solution for the 3rd gen is close. 20% is a bit much.
and if you want to blame anyone, blame JWL. this is his mandate to have all these cars in one class. understand that the people who YOU think is running the show, are not accually in control of it. just as you have to answer to the directors, the directors have to answer to Tony, and Tony answers to JWL/RF. 90% of the problems over the last 3-4 years has not been generated by Tony. but he was expected to "make it work". also, thank Tony and all your other directors (before my time) - at one point in time there was no "one class by X date". the original plan was to allow all the LS1 and '05 Fords in the class and spend the season (2007) to slow them down. Tony stood his ground as did others and offered to create a new class for them to run in and give us time to slow them down w/out affecting CMC.

I don't think finger pointing in any direction will help.... many people had their hands in, or partially in creating this mess. Key to me now if finding a solution to fix it.

Maybe the answer really is to keep the CMC and CMC2... I dono at this point. But at least for me at this point, I'm willing to spend some time trying to find a fix for the 3G cars.

Thanks for trying to dig up some of the data Glenn. I think that is an important first step from my point of view.

accually Dave Shotz and Mike Plum are doing alot w/ thier own personal cars right now. they deserve the most credit. my push is due to this taking too long. we need an answer now to give time towards the 2011 season.
i tried to attach the file of the dyno from my car here, but this site will not allow that type file to be attached.

while on the topic. i encourage everyone to download the Dyno Jet software from the Dyno Jet site (free). then save your files from the pulls. at the least you will be able to re-print a dyno sheet if needed. it will also help you look at yur pulls and overlay one to another in case your making adjustments and want to see what works and what doesnt.