2009 Schedule

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Originally Posted by AI#97

What I find more interesting is that 24 hours of Lemons will have TWO events in Texas this year and a 3rd at No Problem and has people coming in from both coasts and even Chicago... Overall they are having 10 events this year!!! How can that be? :oops:

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Look at the cost: $1000/per car with a 5 driver team... with a car count of 75, that equals $75,000... At a NASATX event we are lucky to have 150 cars at @$300 each equals $45,000... for an extra $30,000 per event, as a promoter, I would do 2 per month... CHA CHING

and as far as a team goes $3000 for a car, including all the safty stuff, it is really an inexpensive way to go door to door racing with lots of cars for working traffic, plus it is a heck of a lot of fun...

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Originally Posted by AI#97

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Originally Posted by mitchntx

A 20 minute race at Houston or TWS is about 5 laps.

I would prefer to combine our practice and qual with other groups in order to get four 30s ...

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combined qual groups always end up in shitty qual times for AI...especially with Group 7 who tries to race us during Qual and don't understand getting the F out of the way.

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It goes both ways, Matt. Some of the guys in GTS are running faster than AI and if they grid late they gotta deal with it. Frankly, we have the hp advantage down the straights over most of that group. It should be easier for us to get by 90% of Group 7 than it would be for them to complete a pass on us.

At Hallett on Sunday, Group 7 had 4(?) cars. They thought it was stupid to waste track time on that many cars, so they spoke to SM about running with them. I think Group 7 lapped SM at least twice. Both groups had a good time and there were no problems or complaints. If those two disparate groups can work together....

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Originally Posted by David Love AI27

and as far as a team goes $3000 for a car, including all the safty stuff, it is really an inexpensive way to go door to door racing with lots of cars for working traffic, plus it is a heck of a lot of fun...

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$3000.00 car? You mean $500.00 car.


JJ

When a group gets sent out is entirely in the hands of race control, and it is normal in other places to release the next group before the previous group is entirely off track. Good feedback for NASA.

Clifton, what is the car count like in the HPDE groups, and why is time trial sepparate from group 4? Just out of curiosity.

Ok...guess we can agree that more track time is good. However, still havent seen a lot of comments on the one thing we can adjust without asking for permission: our preference for 4 20s over 2 20s and one 40.

You know, another thing that might float? Shorten qual sessions for group 3 to ten minutes and add that time to the non-invert race. That would be two 20s and two 25s.

i think we all seem to agree that if our 20's were really 20's we would be OK w/ that.

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Originally Posted by rpoz27

It goes both ways, Matt. Some of the guys in GTS are running faster than AI and if they grid late they gotta deal with it. Frankly, we have the hp advantage down the straights over most of that group. It should be easier for us to get by 90% of Group 7 than it would be for them to complete a pass on us.

At Hallett on Sunday, Group 7 had 4(?) cars. They thought it was stupid to waste track time on that many cars, so they spoke to SM about running with them. I think Group 7 lapped SM at least twice. Both groups had a good time and there were no problems or complaints. If those two disparate groups can work together....

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Misty I agree, yes we have probably held up a few of group 7 in the past, however, my point is SEVERAL of those cars should be able to pass us at will, others need to learn to watch their mirrors. 400hp GTA cars that can't pass a CMC car cleanly just hose things up. I realize not everyone is perfect like me... :roll: ....but courtesy in group 7 in the past hasn't been the greatest during qualifying. Just my input on the idea.


Al the shorter qual session sounds like a plan. I usually only do 3 or 4 laps. If I don't have that lap by then, it ain't going to happen anyway.

Al, to answer your initial question:
I like running 40's every once in a while. If I could make the schedule I would do 2 20's and a 40 at Houston. I would do 4 20's at Cresson (since we get about 10 laps / 20 minute race). I would do 2 20's and a 40 at TWS (most likely have the 40 on Sat. b/c of the enduro). Do 4 20's for the rest of the events.
I don't know what that would do for the points but it would be 2 40's for the year. I guess 22 races and still keep 4 drops.

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Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

You know, another thing that might float? Shorten qual sessions for group 3 to ten minutes and add that time to the non-invert race. That would be two 20s and two 25s.

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I have no issue with shortening qual session. And if that happens, then MFWs issue of lapping the field is moot.

Shorten and combine.

My way of thinking is qualifying NOW is extremely imprtant because we only get 5 or 6 laps of racing. So being up front is a distinct advantage. It also breeds bone head moves because opportunities are very limited.

Race results should be played out during a race and not so much on a qual session.

MHO.

So, a 10 minute (of track time) qual session, gridded by class and a staggered start.

That would be a lot easier to pull off because a qual session is green flag as soon as you enter the track. There is no yellow flag warm up lap. Of course, RC would have to ensure that the first group out didn't run into the tail end of the previous group on cool down.

So send AI/AIX, 15 seconds later send GT/ST and 15 seconds later send CMC/CMC2.

Bottom line ... I don't mind 4 races per weekend. I do mind short duration races, though.

We try to over lap the groups on track. However, all too often we have a checkered flag runner, or a tow, or debris on track, or a T&S glitch, or cars that haven't shown up on grid. We are not inclined to leave cars running on grid for longer than we already do.

Lemons cars can run in PT. I am seriously considering having a Lemons class for the Enduro (EL). We can make a class for them in Group 6 (PTL - as in Praise the Lord they finished the race). But, then we may have more issues with time between groups when they break down. Some of the themes, however, will not be allowed. I have the final decision, period.

Entries were good in 2006, down in 2007, and way up in 2008 despite the numbers being down in Group 3.

We have strict requirements for guest groups and have none planned for 2009.

Combining groups is a possibility. That isn't what AI/CMC wanted a few years ago, that is why you have your own group. Also, I would need approval from the group you want to combine with. Please remember that TWS is long and Hallett/MSRC are short.

Car count in HPDE could be better. Some tracks draw better than others. We need to keep 1/2 & 3/4 separated because of the skill level of the drivers and to help evaluate drivers that are looking to get signed off for a racing license. We have been sending out currently licensed drivers to "play" with newbies to see how they react when a little heat is applied. I can't do that when my open track street car people are on track.

Time Trials participation is growing and have done what is necessary to earn their own run group.

Please don't confuse a 20 min. race with a 20 min. session. One thing I have really worked on is getting a full 20 min. session when it is a race. However, cars break down and I have always said that if we need to tow a car the time comes out of that racer's group.

The reason I suggested a lap race instead of a timed race is simple. Pick a number, 10 for this discussion. This makes the length of each race specific to the track, but, changes the length of the race from event to event. i.e. MSRC 17 mile race, TWS 29 mile race. Also, it guarantees track time for the group. The down side is if there is a reason to clear the track after the race. We could shorten the race, leave the car at a safe place until lunch or the end of the day and bring in the driver only, or shorten qualifying.

This is a good discussion even though we've had most of it before. I don't know what 2009 holds. A little flexibility may be required for the first couple of events. The April event will have a very strict schedule and you will only get 3 sprint races, so I don't want to hear any complaining because it is different.

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Originally Posted by AI#97

400hp GTA cars that can't pass a CMC car cleanly just hose things up.

Al the shorter qual session sounds like a plan. I usually only do 3 or 4 laps. If I don't have that lap by then, it ain't going to happen anyway.

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I agree with you on both those points. AI/CMC is not the only group to have had issues with certain GTA drivers. There are 3 of them that I can think of who belong in a race group.

Shorter qual would work for me. I tried to convince Jay to do 3 lap sprint races, so I could start and finish a race before my car breaks. :lol: