I didnt delete it....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Tech is a necessary evil of our hobby because we all want to know we're going into a fair fight. That said, I am confident nobody except apparently you wants to spend 1.5hrs plus after each race in the tech shed either tech-ing other cars or disassembling their car for it to be inspected. If that doesnt meet your expectations of how rigorous tech should be, fine, duly noted, but until NASA HQ tells me to spend that kind of time and have that kind of vehicle disassembly, it isnt going to happen. Personally I am damn glad because I would much rather be in the paddock chatting about the race with my friends than in the tech area taking apart my car to prove it is legal.
?

---

Al, I think you are confusing my points....there aren't any "tear down" rules in our rule book. Thank God. I'm not asking you to go tear down a car post race. Come back in from left field...I too don't want the SCCA type of crap. BTW, in reference to your comment about the 1.5 hours in tech at Utah...a good 20 to 30 minutes of that was our teams going back to the paddock to get tools, another 30 minutes was me asking if they were done and if I could be released as no-one had been near the car or doing anything for that long....so could it REALLY have just been 30 minutes? Maybe?

LeMons is popular b/c people race cheap piles of crap. They can also race without having any experience or common sense in the world. This is why it is so appealing to Americans. :lol:
I love racing LeMons and plan to continue for a long time, but it isn't as cool as CMC Racing!!! 8)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by michaelmosty

LeMons is popular b/c people race cheap piles of crap. They can also race without having any experience or common sense in the world.

---

AND if there is CONTACT or OVERLY AGRESSIVE driving you are pulled off the track and must answer to a judge who will probably ask "WHY ARE YOU DRIVING LIKE AN IDIOT?"

NASATX answer: "If you pull (black flag) someone for contact they will finish last and mess up their points" SO WHAT?

Honestly, I can put up will everything else that is going on... The main reason I'm getting out is the amount of contact last year. Even my own son took out BL and that shouldn't have happened...

Lets talk transparency! Is there a record of ALL contact from 2009, 2008,2007? I would like to see them. A list should be published before EVERY event as to the driver's current status. I've been told that publishing this information would "leave the offending driver open to attack from other drivers"... REALLY!?!? What you are saying is that Rob is such an a$$hole that he would drive Glenn harder if he knew Glenn was on the verg of having his license pulled?? REALLY!?!? I kinda thought AICMC TEXAS was full of honorable drivers... Thats what brought ME here and thats why I stayed so long...

So Matt, I'm confused.....
Do you want NASA to be run like ALMS, F1, NASCAR, or like LeMons?

After all this back and forth, I really think we are not all that far from where we want the other to be.
And I'll give one to Matt for being correct on one thing, the poll seems to show you guys want more tech and rules enforcement than we are currently doing (last I looked). Duely noted. Since I've had no plans to bring my car to the first event of 2010 for a few months now, I had already planned on starting off the year w/ a "bang" w/ regards to tech inspections. I'll take this as a green light to step it up one more knotch.

I'm confused now. Lemons has shown explosive popularity using a model that is 100% focused on having fun and not being serious, agreed. So that is the reason why we should consider being more serious and less fun?

Matt I honestly do not know where you land on the tech issue because you keep bouncing back and forth with every other comment. At one point you said tech at nationals was the best thing you'd ever experienced. Then you said it was mediocre and left a lot to be desired. Now you're saying that 20-30 minutes should be all that is necessary excluding time to go get tools and actually do the work requested, which is what you're saying happened at nationals....but wasnt that only mediocre?

Which is it young feller, you want us to freeze or git down on the ground?

Oh, and by the way:
AI 8.2: NASA tech inspectors and AI Officials have the right to inspect anything in sight at any time the vehicle is at the track. NASA tech inspectors and AI Officials have the right to request disassembly or any other procedure required to verify vehicle compliance with these rules including a dynamometer re-certification or be required to run monitoring equipment.

Sounds like a disassembly rule to me.

You've already stated you dont trust me to decide what rule to enforce, yet you say the Lemons model is superior because they have no written rules and the drivers have to simply trust the officials to do the right thing with no basis of justification whatsoever. You dont trust me when I have two giant rule books to force my hand and you have a two level appeals process, but you implicitly trust the Lemons guys with no backup whatsoever? So, again, which is it? Feel free to say you'd prefer to have no written rules and anyone other than me making the decisions :lol:

And just so you know, I spend more time than you can possibly imagine talking about things with not just Texas drivers but with drivers from all over the country. My cell phone bill is obscene. My wife complains about it being a second job. The thing is you're confusing "agreeing with" with "listening to". I am ready and happy to listen to everything and anything you have to say. Glenn has tried to call you and you told him you dont want to talk to him. Its not that we're not willing to listen to you, its that you're not happy we arent agreeing with you. Personally I dont know what you want me to agree to because you keep bouncing around! Pick up the phone and call me and I'll listen till your voice is hoarse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Love AI27

AND if there is CONTACT or OVERLY AGRESSIVE driving you are pulled off the track and must answer to a judge who will probably ask "WHY ARE YOU DRIVING LIKE AN IDIOT?"
NASATX answer: "If you pull (black flag) someone for contact they will finish last and mess up their points" SO WHAT?

---

No! This was tried a while back and I was one of the victims. My driver’s suit has not left its equipment bag since that day.

Someone standing on the side of the track acting as judge, jury, and executioner without gathering all the relevant information from the people involved, the corner workers, video evidence, etc. is wrong.

I like Lemons and their model works for them. It only works for them because they are not racing equivalently prepared cars door to door for laps on end. The shenanigans that goes on there is great but does not apply to our racing.

I am 100% for penalizing contact or overly aggressive driving especially for repeat offenders but you have to have all the facts together before decisions are made.

Richard P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AI#97

Here is a GREAT scenario to validate my point. 2006, last event of the year. Marvel and I were fighting for the regional championship down to the last race. during qual, I passed chris under waving yellow in the rain. I admitted it...however, nothing was going to be done about it, my Pole position would have stood, and it would have come down to the results of the last two races to determine the champ. This forced Chris to file a protest, which REALLY pissed me off, but I suppose I would have done the same thing with what was on the line. It created a LOT of animosity toward Chris for a long time but I eventually got over it....but Wow, Regional champ in my rookie year was taken away by a protest that should have been enforced by a director...yes it was Clifton, not Todd but the point was it wasn't strictly enforced.

---

Your recollection, understanding, or math skills are a bit off. We won that race and finished 20 points ahead of you in the series. If you had not been penalized and had gone on to win that race (which you likely would have – Chris was specifically told not to race you since we didn’t need to finish ahead of you once we won the first race of the weekend) you would have gained 10 points and we would have lost 10 points. That would have tied us for the season and we would have won the championship based on the first tie breaker (cumulative points without drops). There were lots of reasons you lost the championship that year. Us protesting you was not one of them.

Even though your facts are wrong, I get your point and I totally agree with you. The specific reason we filed the protest was because we were passed under a double yellow at an earlier event and nothing was done about it by NASA TX. We did not want to protest our friends at the time and lost out on points because of it.

All of this is on NASA TX and not on the current directors, though. And I believe both have gotten better since then.

Richard P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Love AI27

AND if there is CONTACT or OVERLY AGRESSIVE driving you are pulled off the track and must answer to a judge who will probably ask "WHY ARE YOU DRIVING LIKE AN IDIOT?"
NASATX answer: "If you pull (black flag) someone for contact they will finish last and mess up their points" SO WHAT?

---

No! This was tried a while back and I was one of the victims. My driver’s suit has not left its equipment bag since that day.

Someone standing on the side of the track acting as judge, jury, and executioner without gathering all the relevant information from the people involved, the corner workers, video evidence, etc. is wrong.

I like Lemons and their model works for them. It only works for them because they are not racing equivalently prepared cars door to door for laps on end. The shenanigans that goes on there is great but does not apply to our racing.

I am 100% for penalizing contact or overly aggressive driving especially for repeat offenders but you have to have all the facts together before decisions are made.

Richard P.

---

As usuall, Richard is 100% correct. Our sprint race format does not allow the time to investigate an issue that most other sactioning bodies have. So, we must almost always conduct the investigation after the fact. there are exceptions to this rule, but my point should be clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RichardP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by David Love AI27

AND if there is CONTACT or OVERLY AGRESSIVE driving you are pulled off the track and must answer to a judge who will probably ask "WHY ARE YOU DRIVING LIKE AN IDIOT?"
NASATX answer: "If you pull (black flag) someone for contact they will finish last and mess up their points" SO WHAT?

---

No! This was tried a while back and I was one of the victims. My driver’s suit has not left its equipment bag since that day.

Someone standing on the side of the track acting as judge, jury, and executioner without gathering all the relevant information from the people involved, the corner workers, video evidence, etc. is wrong.

I like Lemons and their model works for them. It only works for them because they are not racing equivalently prepared cars door to door for laps on end. The shenanigans that goes on there is great but does not apply to our racing.

I am 100% for penalizing contact or overly aggressive driving especially for repeat offenders but you have to have all the facts together before decisions are made.

Richard P.

---

I totally agree Richard, BUT I'm working off of history here... It seems like the the ONLY way NASATX ever gets it right is to swing too far either way... it goes from "if you "rub" someones bumper you are out for the season" then it hits a happy medium because every one is scared and then its like "ok, you guys are doing better so we will loosen the rope around your testicles" and then its like a free for all...

THERE IS NO CONSISTANCY and NO TRANSPARENCY

At some tracks, NASCAR doesn't allow passing under the yellow line cuz it is dangerous. These guys are PROs with millions of dollars at stake. WE seem to think it is "cool " to see a "Cory" type pass in the grass, while the whole time the car in the grass in on the edge of "out-of-control"... it is only a matter of time we someone attempts this and comes across the track in front of 1/2 the pack. I guess we will all ACCEPT "Opps, my bad, I thought it would work"

Jason forced Wirtz off the track at Hallett. It was very close according to the blue scuff on our car. That was a very dangerous situation. Was Jason wrong becaused he got pushed over and Wirtz was 3/4 along side? Was Wirtz wrong because he was being agressive and didn't have a clear opening to make the pass? Jason contacted 3 cars that weekend, was he over his head? If I thought he was, I would not have allowed him to grid mid pack. He had done very well to that point. 3 contacts in one event?? If a director would have come to him and said "your out for one event" or "you will start at the back for one or two events", I believe he would have taken it like a man and took his licks. He is a smart driver and will not run in the rain because he is uncomfortable, I'm proud of that. But if he gets cocky and over his head, he needs a reality check.... and he is not the only one.

It took a long time for me to feel comfortable starting mid pack. I showed respect for all of you and started at the back MANY times. Even today if I don't "feel" right or my head is not in the game, I will grid at the back. Some might call me a pussy, I call it honor and respect for my fellow racers.

We laughed and cheered at Wirtz's pass in the grass and Al running over the cones. And the jokiing when Rob comments about being passed by someone with all 4 wheels locked up. What kind of example is that to the new guys?

This is VERY hard to admit:
I'm stepping back because after Glenn went past me with all 4 locked up at ECR and after watching the video at the banquet, My attitude was "next time someone does that to me I'm gonna turn in and take him out, I don't care what it does to my car". I even picked up paint and had a doner car ready for spare body panels. I've never felt like this before.

Do YOU want to race with someone who has this attitude???? I DON'T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

The accuser had no evidence that out plates were not of the legal size, but we got checked anyways.

---

Hey.....I know that feeling, too. :)