Toyo the official tire through 2015!!

This morning NASA announded Toyo will be the official tire for NASA classes with a spec tire (including CMC and AI) through 2015. Full details here: http://www.nasaproracing.com/2011/12...nue-as-th.html

I am psyched to see the payout schedule has been changed to recognize classes with more entries, rewarding fewer bigger classes. For classes with 19+ cars (very realistic for CMC, particularly here in TX!) the winner gets $300 and drivers through 14th place get something! In classes with 9-18 cars the winner gets $200 and drivers through 14th still get something! Awesome stuff.

WOW! Man, chalk one up for Toyo!

Merry Christmas to all you AI guys running 18s...

Guess I need to knock the dust off of the ol AI #27 and help you guys with car count...

If I register and park at grid does that count as being an "entry"?

I saw the thread and thought... yawn... man am I surprised... good job HQ!

1. Marshall Mosty
2. Frank Robertson
3. Eddie Rock
4. Brian Calder
5. Dave Neary
6. Jim Dulaney

7. Mike Patterson
8. David Donovan
9. David Love

...that's 9, guys. That's what next year's AI roster should look like! :D

Looks like mid pack slackers got sumpin' to fight for.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/conting...lCont_2012.pdf
Is that a typo or am I reading this right...

10th-14th get $25 or $50 (depending on # of starters)
yet
6th-9th get nada?

1. Marshall Mosty
2. Frank Robertson
3. Eddie Rock
4. Brian Calder
5. Dave Neary
6. Jim Dulaney

7. Casey Holdway... uh, 29 white...?

Heh.
Mindy

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Originally Posted by rleng1

Looks like mid pack slackers got sumpin' to fight for.

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You might not need to paint that car this winter. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MPHoldway

1. Marshall Mosty
2. Frank Robertson
3. Eddie Rock
4. Brian Calder
5. Dave Neary
6. Jim Dulaney

7. Casey Holdway... uh, 29 white...?

Heh.
Mindy

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Oops. Thought I missed one.

So...10. Hehe. :)

That's awesome that they stepped up the contingency that much!

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Originally Posted by Alien

http://www.nasaproracing.com/conting...lCont_2012.pdf
Is that a typo or am I reading this right...

10th-14th get $25 or $50 (depending on # of starters)
yet
6th-9th get nada?

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Its seems that is the case. I would rather them just pay straight 6th-10th. Its a little odd that they are splitting it like that. But hey, at least they are putting out some real dollars now.

All,
I've already brought up the issue with 6-9th place... must be an oversight. Hopefully we will have a revised contingency soon, as the current program doesn't make much sense.

Not an oversight...the payout really does skip 6th-9th.

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Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Not an oversight...the payout really does skip 6th-9th.

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So I checked the date, nope that's not it. Seriously? What's the NASA penalty for having to tow my hooptie off the track while I sit at the finish line waiting for somebody to pass me? Seriously?

I guess Obama runs Toyo since apparently the top of the mid-pack is sufficiently compensated by NOT being a winner or a loser.

Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Fbody383

So I checked the date, nope that's not it. Seriously? What's the NASA penalty for having to tow my hooptie off the track while I sit at the finish line waiting for somebody to pass me? Seriously?

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That's dangerous and you shouldn't do that. I've got a switch on the dashboard to turn the transponder off. That's much safer.

"Oh look, the results say I finished a lap down. Give me my money..."


Richard P.

But Jerry can't do that. He's got one hand always on the shifter, and now your telling him to flip a switch on an off with his other hand?? That's not safe either.

May be easier to just bribe Darcie with $50 to adjust your position in the tower.

This is the Toyo 888 and New Coke deal for 2012.


JJ

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

This is the Toyo 888 and New Coke deal for 2012.


JJ

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I don't agree with that. The new contingency numbers are a better thing overall. It's just the specific implementation of the payouts that has everyone scratching thier heads and will lead to people screwing around with their finishing position.


Richard P.

Your right Richard. The extra money is great but the implementation is all wrong. I still say it's a bad idea (skipping 6th through 9th) just like the other two were.

JJ

I gotta agree with everybody else that it would be better and easier to police if the payout was just straight 1-10 instead of skipping as it does.

I don't like the skipping of 6th through 9th. I would ask that each of you email NASA HQ and let them know your position on this in a very profesional manner. I will see what I can get done as well as if CMC has any way of modifying the payouts through the CMC rules.

This 10th-14th payout while skipping 6th-9th reminds me of the lifetime welfare "life style".
"I'm better off if I just slack off and not try."

Perhaps we can adjust the points structure to be a bit more motivating to finish better and not worry about the $$. Just an idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichardP

That's dangerous and you shouldn't do that.

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And probably nobody will... I did take Al up and drop Jeremy a note. But if I'm solidly in 8th... why stay there?

Al/Glenn/Marshall ~ go ahead and add an AI/CMC rule that the Toyo stickers must be a contrasting color, otherwise I'll need some orange and blue ones. Those white ones show up too well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toyo Tire Contengency Form

1. To be eligible for this program, competitors must be using the Toyo Proxes RA1 or R888 competition tire.Use of a different Toyo tire product does not qualify for this program.2. Decals Requirement: YES3. # of Decals: 4

4.

Location: One decal must be placed on each side of the vehicle as well as on the front and rear. Noexceptions will be made for this rule.

5. Decal availability: Toyo Tire decals are available at any NASA event from driver’s information.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Glenn

Perhaps we can adjust the points structure to be a bit more motivating to finish better and not worry about the $$. Just an idea.

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Would motivate the top of the points... if history repeats, I'm more missed races than drops and might rather have the $.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

I would ask that each of you email NASA HQ and let them know your position on this in a very profesional manner.

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Already done.

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Originally Posted by Alien

Already done.

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+1

Team motto for Love in it Racing:

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

"I'm better off if I just slack off and not try."

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdlingle

+1

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I sent this. I hope it does some good.


Mr. Croiset,

I want to thank you for the hard work you have done in getting us more money in Toyo bucks. I'm sure this was not an easy task. That said, the racers in Texas are very worried about the new plan. Skipping people is not right and it is not the American way to reward those that finish behind others that get nothing. In Texas we have the best group of guys you could imagine. We really all like each other. We all pit together and we are really close. I can see this deal causing all kinds of issues and maybe getting feelings hurt (if not tearing up a few race cars trying to make sure you "get back" to where the money is). If we are bound and determined to help those that never finish at the front (and my team of my son and I have never won a race in four years) then lets put the car numbers in a hat that did not finish in the money and draw at random for the remaining spots. This would be a much better deal and would keep us from possibly screwing up the good deal we have in CMC in Texas.

Thanks for your time and efforts in this matter.

Jerry Jordan
Team Jordan
CMC 55


JJ

I just received a response from Jeremy at NASA. They think we are stupid and don't understand what they are trying to do. Everyone KNOWS what they are trying to do. I got the impression that they think if we just understood what they are trying to do, just understood their thought process, then we would agree with them. I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I can follow a liberal progressive idea without issue. Lets help the guys that just started that run at the rear of the field and the guys that have been around for years at the front of the pack. Lets just leave out the front of the mid pack slackers.......the almost beauty queens.

Back to work on my radiator box/bumper support. I'm out.


JJ

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

They think we are stupid.

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That is why I sat out last year and why I won't be back...

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

I just received a response from Jeremy at NASA. They think we are stupid and don't understand what they are trying to do.

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Wow...just wow. Well JJ, I for one don't think the stupid arrow is pointing at you on this one

Let me see if I understand this...ignoring the hurdle in AI to get 19+ cars, but in a CMC class, this might be interesting:
If a semi-talented driver called Driver X is doing OK, running hard for 5th in a Toyo race but for what ever reason just can't make the pass, there is now an added incentive to pull the parachute (save the car, tires, etc.), come in 14th and get $50 and start in 6th in the next race.
Scheming Socialist Sandbagger Scenario = 83pts in R1 and 91-100 pts in R2 (Assuming I,...er I mean Driver X... holds starting spot or better) + $50 = 174 - 183pts + $50
Honorable Texas Republic Scenario = 91 pts in R1 and starting R2 in 14th on the invert, figure I, ...er I mean Driver X, do great and run up 8 spots for a repeat of 6th place for another 91 pts in R2 = 182 + $0.
Play this game all season, spend the inverts racing hard to the front for a fun factor, drop several of the sandbag races as an added benefit and finish up $600 and possibly finish with around 1400 pts or better, somewhere around 8-10th overall - heck, with the great starting position in some of the inverts, maybe I get to 1500 pts.
Or, have a solid season, race for 6th place all year long, finish with a high of 1600 pts, never crack the top 5 'cause I am ...I mean Driver X is... just not good enough and wind up around 4-8 overall and $0.
From a socialist perspective, the system is prime to be worked.

JJ-
He copied and pasted the same response to me that he sent to you.

Same here (which is understandable), but hopefully if they receive enough feedback, they may reconsider.

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Originally Posted by Alien

Same here (which is understandable), but hopefully if they receive enough feedback, they may reconsider.

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That is the idea. If enough folks feedback that they feel NASA HQ made the wrong call, they may reconsider their position.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alien

Same here (which is understandable), but hopefully if they receive enough feedback, they may reconsider.

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I have not gotten a response yet, would you guys mind posting what you received back?

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Originally Posted by Fbody383

I have not gotten a response yet, would you guys mind posting what you received back?

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From Jeremy Croiset:

"Hi there,

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to send me your thoughts. They are greatly appreciated.
I wanted to explain the thought process used in putting together the new contingency program for Toyo next season. It is something new that hasn't ever been tried in the industry and will be exclusive to NASA racing in 2012.

The idea behind the program was to come up with an award program that would provide something that the top 9 can fight for while the 10-20 positions can fight for something else. Typically, it's always been the top 5 getting the rewards, but the idea with this program was never to "skip" anyone. Quite the contrary, it was to provide a reward for someone finishing deeper in the field that doesn't have a shot at a top 5 finish getting something. I think you'd agree that if you typically finish in the 10-20th spot, the chances of you getting a top 5 finish and collecting some Toyo bucks are fairly slim. But, if you finish in the 6th-9th position, getting a top 5 finish and collecting some Toyo bucks isn't out of the realm of possibility.
The main philosophy behind the new program was providing racers that don't typically finish in the top 5 the opportunity to still collect some Toyo rewards because after all, they are showing up, racing, having a great time, and spending money on Toyo tires! So why shouldn't they benefit as well.

I hope this does a better job of explaining the new program for you and our ideas behind the new program details and why we did what we did with the new program.
If I can answer any additional questions for you, please don't hesitate to ask.
Thanks again for taking the time to send me your thoughts.

Best regards,

Jeremy Croiset
Sponsorship Manager
www.drivenasa.com
T 510-221-4010
F 661-825-9009"

That thinking is so misguided systemically a Canadian bureaucrat must have thought it up!

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Originally Posted by jdlingle

The main philosophy behind the new program was providing racers that don't typically finish in the top 5 the opportunity to still collect some Toyo rewards because after all, they are showing up, racing, having a great time, and spending money on Toyo tires! So why shouldn't they benefit as well.

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Given that philosophy, drivers 6-9 are showing up, racing, having a great time, and spending money on Toyo tires - AND PROBABLY HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS! So why shouldn't they benefit as well?
Any thoughts on WHY this is an industry first?

Another flaw at the center of the philosophy

Quote:

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typically finish in the 10-20th spot, the chances of you getting a top 5 finish and collecting some Toyo bucks are fairly slim

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So have 6-9 payout...then 10-20 are fighting for 6-9, 6-9 are fighting for 1-5 and everyone is looking forward.
'nuff said

Thanks, John.

It still aggravates me... I guess it's just time to cinch it up and run up front.

Even with all the drama I still don't know where I would find a better race group.

Lets look at this from a $$ standpoint for Toyo:

If 9-18 starters pays $25 for 10th - 14th look at all the extra money they pay out if there are 9 starters.........ZERO!!!!!!
If there are 9 starters and they payout through 9th, that is an extra $100 Toyo would have to put up.
If 10 starters, Toyo would pay $25 for 10th but still would save $100.
If 11 starters, Toyo would pay $50 for 10 + 11 and would save $75.
If 12 starters, Toyo would pay $75 for 10-12 and would save $50.
If 13 starters, Toyo would pay $100 for 10-13 and would save $25.
If 14 starters, Toyo pays out the same.

It is the corporate way, spin it so it sounds good. I guarantee Toyo thought of this and "spun" it to NASA in a way that would benefit themselves.
Gotta love it!!!

they forgot to place a value/cost on looking stupid by offering a hairbrained contingency program I guess, heh.

"I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer but I can follow a liberal progressive idea without issue"

Man this thread has some great one liners! :)