Rule proposal: change for format for Manufacturers points

The manufacturers points needs to be changed to more accurately track the success of each platform.

Example:
Scenario) A race has 5 total cars and 4 are Ford and 1 is GM. If any of the 4 Fords win they get 5 points. If the 1 GM car wins then he gets 5 points. This skews the data heavily towards the platform with more participation.

New format:
Base the manufacturers points on the percentage of specific platforms in each field.
(Scenario) A race has 5 total cars and 4 are Ford and 1 is GM. If the 1 GM car wins the race he should get more manufacturer points than if any of the 4 Fords had won.

I know there is a mathmatical way of calculating the % of all platform entries but my brain can't think like that now.
Any ideas, suggestions, or criticisms will be appreciated. 8)

OK...this is a valid point and could use some work.
I came up with the Manufacturers points many years ago after watching an F1 race. I thought it was interesting that only the top X cars rec'd points and all others had to pound sand.

At the time, it was more trivial and for fun. Today, since people seem to stake their investments, their livelihood and their sanity in manufacturer's points...it may be worth taking a second look at this (instead of a Sunday Morning Swag!)

-=- Todd

PS- Al...you takin' notes??? 8)

No, I hate taking notes almost as much as I hate spreadsheets and formulas. 8)

Give points to the top finisher for each mfg. Base points on car count... for example 20 cars would give first place 20 pts, 2nd 19 and so on...

Rob takes 1st and earns 20 pts for ford
Glenn gets 3rd (top finishing gm) and earns 18 pts for gm

if you wanna weigh it more towards the winner give extra 1 or 2 points for the win...

It may not be perfect but I think is is better than the current system...

try it on this years results and see how each system compares..

my 2 cents...

While supposed to be fun, it's turned into something much less than that.

Kill it altogether.

Mitch,
I agree. The driver's points end in something solid for the winners... toyo bucks and a $15 plastic trophy. 8)

What does Henry Ford or the General get for winning the mfg championship? A bunch of people bitching about the formulas. :?


If it doesn't serve any real purpose... get rid of it. Think of it as downsizing and streamlining for CMC. :)

I agree with Marshall... I really coudn't care less about the manfacturer's championship.....unless Chevy and Ford want to pony up some money for the recoginition then who really cares about it.

but, as long as there is at least 2.5 GM's and 2.5 Fords, then there is enough of each to cover the top 5.
Michaels case was valid back in 2004 and some of 2005.

the top 5 is not picked by some roll of the dice. its not a game of chance.
so the difference in car count should not play a role (UP TO A POINT). i think this is the first year GM has lead it at any point. i also seem to recall this is the closest it has been since i have been involved.

what formatt does the World Challenge SCCA guys use? those manufactures are heavily vested in that series and place a high importance on the results. could we use thier formatt?

the point is if only 1 GM shows up, its going to be hard for GM to win the points chase no matter how the format works.

From the 2007 SCCA Pro Racing Rulebook

ARTICLE 2.2: MANUFACTURERS’ CHAMPIONSHIP POINTS
2.2.1: SCCA Pro will award Championship points and maintain the point standings to
determine a Vehicle Manufacturer Champion in each vehicle class. Only those
manufacturers who are SCCA Pro Racing corporate members shall be eligible to receive
points toward the Manufacturers’ Championships. Points will be awarded as follows:
1 - 9 points 2 - 7 points 3 - 5 points 4 - 3 points 5 - 2 points 6 - 1 point
2.2.2: The highest finishing car of each eligible make will earn Manufacturer points for its
finishing position.
2.2.3: One (1) manufacturer point will be awarded to the manufacturer of the car qualifying
for pole position in each class.
2.2.4: Ties in the final point standings in any of the Championships will be decided based
upon the number of first place finishes in class; then, if necessary, the number of second
place finishes, etc.

Nothing earth-shattering here. I believe that this is designed for more than 2 manufacturers, though. I would try to find out how NASCAR does it, or how they did it before Dodge came back, to see if it is any different than now.

so it works alot like what we have, just a different award amount.
thanks Clifton.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

but, as long as there is at least 2.5 GM's and 2.5 Fords, then there is enough of each to cover the top 5.
Michaels case was valid back in 2004 and some of 2005.

the top 5 is not picked by some roll of the dice. its not a game of chance.
so the difference in car count should not play a role (UP TO A POINT). i think this is the first year GM has lead it at any point. i also seem to recall this is the closest it has been since i have been involved.

what formatt does the World Challenge SCCA guys use? those manufactures are heavily vested in that series and place a high importance on the results. could we use thier formatt?

the point is if only 1 GM shows up, its going to be hard for GM to win the points chase no matter how the format works.

---

I am honestly not trying to start something, just trying to better explain my thoughts.

Ex.
Every race of the year there are 5 drivers. 1 GM and 4 Fords. If the GM wins every race of the year it will still look like Ford dominated the manufacturers points.
The reason I bring this up (and maybe I was misinformed) is b/c I was told a few years ago that the points in the manufacturers championship were factored into possible rules changes for each platform. The Fox cars were changed from 3125 to 3150 lbs. from 2004 - 2005. I was told this was b/c Ford dominated the manufacturers points. When there are 3 times as many Fords racing than GM of course they will dominate the point race.
The manufacturer that has the majority of entrants throughout the year has an advantage in the manufacturers championship. If the final standings of amnufacturer points are factored into the rules changes then I feel this is inaccurate.

Manufacturer's points are not the basis for rules changes for all the reasons you mentioned. It can be an indicator...but not the sole basis.

I think 1 manufacturer point for a win is all we need.

If a Camaro won every race in Texas the score would be 26-0.
Still not a basis to change the entire National rules based on this information, but it's an indication.

(All other factors still need to be accounted for. YMMV.)

-=- Todd