I need help with my 5.0

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01-25-2009, 06:14 PM
ShadowBolt

I need help with my 5.0

I installed the shorty headers and e-cam on a new short block and went for my dyno. It is so pig rich it sucks. The numbers are okay at 4500 or higher but from 2200 to 3800 it under the 10:1 line! When I got the car from Eric he has just installed the 93 Cobra cam, rockers, maf, and computer. The car has felt weak to everyone that has driven it. I was told the MAF was wrong so I purchased one from the local auto parts and installed it. Now I have some popping back through the intake, it does not want to idle, and I still have the strong smell when I run it. In just a few minutes it stinks the whole place up. It gets on your clothes and you have to change it's so bad. I have read on the different Mustang sites that the MAF has to be calibrated to the injectors and then I have read it's the computer that must match the injectors not the MAF. I have checked and I do have the correct computer. I'm giving up a bunch of power under the peak. It made 260 but only 285 tq. I have no idea what to do next. I wish I could just get it tuned and cure the whole thing but we all know that is not going to be okay. HELP!

JJ
01-25-2009, 07:36 PM
mitchntx

My car runs stupid rich too. I've just learned to live with it.
01-25-2009, 07:40 PM
AllZWay

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchntx

My car runs stupid rich too. I've just learned to live with it.

Mine too... the rear of the car is black after a race weekend.
01-25-2009, 08:14 PM
marshall_mosty

Jerry,

1. What's your fuel pressure with the vacuum line disconnected and engine running?

2. What is the TPS set to? Should be 0.98V with the throttle blade closed.

3. Did you pull codes and make sure all the sensors are doing okay?

4. Timing somewhere between 10 and 16 degrees with the SPOUT disconnected.

5. Computer should be one of the following (at least I know these should work)... A9L, A9M, A9P.

6. What color are the tops or your injectors? Orange are 19lb and baby blue are 24lb.

The full throttle acceleration strategy that the EEC-IV will utilize looks at RPM versus load as well as temperature (engine and air) versus RPM. The engine load versus RPM table wants to keep the A/F ratio at 13.0:1 through the entire RPM band.
01-25-2009, 09:46 PM
RichardP

Re: I need help with my 5.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

93 Cobra cam, rockers, maf, and computer. I was told the MAF was wrong so I purchased one from the local auto parts and installed it

Did you purchase a Cobra MAF??? If you did, are you sure that's actually what you got? I'd go back to the old MAF or maybe go with a stock computer and 19 lb injectors.

Richard P.
01-26-2009, 08:13 AM
ShadowBolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall_mosty

Jerry,

1. What's your fuel pressure with the vacuum line disconnected and engine running?

2. What is the TPS set to? Should be 0.98V with the throttle blade closed.

3. Did you pull codes and make sure all the sensors are doing okay?

4. Timing somewhere between 10 and 16 degrees with the SPOUT disconnected.

5. Computer should be one of the following (at least I know these should work)... A9L, A9M, A9P.

6. What color are the tops or your injectors? Orange are 19lb and baby blue are 24lb.

The full throttle acceleration strategy that the EEC-IV will utilize looks at RPM versus load as well as temperature (engine and air) versus RPM. The engine load versus RPM table wants to keep the A/F ratio at 13.0:1 through the entire RPM band.

Marshall,

Fuel pressure is 38 to 40 vacuum line disconnected.

I have not checked the TPS....never done it but I will.

I have not pulled codes but I did replace both o2's but nothing changed. I will pull the codes.....another thing I have not ever done on this old style system

Timing is set to 10 with spout disconnected.

Computer is correct Cobra X3Z

I will double check the injectors but I know they are not orange.

JJ
01-26-2009, 08:19 AM
ShadowBolt

Re: I need help with my 5.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardP

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

93 Cobra cam, rockers, maf, and computer. I was told the MAF was wrong so I purchased one from the local auto parts and installed it

Did you purchase a Cobra MAF??? If you did, are you sure that's actually what you got? I'd go back to the old MAF or maybe go with a stock computer and 19 lb injectors.

Richard P.

Richard,

I'm returning the Oreilly's MAF. The number they sold me says it's the one that replaces the one Rob has on his Cobra but it runs like crap and does not have the Ford electronics on it so I can't check the part number.

JJ
01-26-2009, 08:19 AM
ShadowBolt

Re: I need help with my 5.0

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardP

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

93 Cobra cam, rockers, maf, and computer. I was told the MAF was wrong so I purchased one from the local auto parts and installed it

Did you purchase a Cobra MAF??? If you did, are you sure that's actually what you got? I'd go back to the old MAF or maybe go with a stock computer and 19 lb injectors.

Richard P.

Richard,

I'm returning the Oreilly's MAF. The number they sold me says it's the one that replaces the one Rob has on his Cobra but it runs like crap and does not have the Ford electronics on it so I can't check the part number.

JJ
01-26-2009, 08:39 AM
evarner

Jerry,

If nothing else, get it to the track and we can swarm on it to get it running 100%. I can bring my voltmeter and other various parts to getcha out there.
01-26-2009, 08:54 AM
Rob Liebbe

Jerry,

I will ptich in at the track as well. Let me know and I can bring my Cobra MAF.
01-26-2009, 08:57 AM
ShadowBolt

You guys are the BEST.

Rob,

Please bring the MAF.

Eric,

I forgot I owe you a measurement off CMC17. Do you still need it? I can get it for you this afternoon.

JJ
01-26-2009, 09:03 AM
evarner

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

You guys are the BEST.

Rob,

Please bring the MAF.

Eric,

I forgot I owe you a measurement off CMC17. Do you still need it? I can get it for you this afternoon.

JJ

I was so busy I forgot to give you a call on Saturday. Let me take some pics of what I need measured and send 'em your way. Thank you for any help/assistance you may provide.
01-26-2009, 09:33 AM
Rob Liebbe

Jerry,

I just remembered that my boss had similar troupbles with a Lincoln Town Car - popping, no power, run like shit. Turned out to be a bad MAF. Couldn't hurt to try another O'Reily part. What happened to the Ford parts you found?
01-26-2009, 10:03 AM
AI#97

sounds like blue/24lbers with a 19lb MAF....or dirty MAF...

get a tune/chip to fix it...err...nevermind! :lol:
01-26-2009, 10:11 AM
evarner

I've also seen this type problem when the airflow is reversed through the MAF (180* rotation).
01-26-2009, 10:52 AM
ShadowBolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

Jerry,

I just remembered that my boss had similar troupbles with a Lincoln Town Car - popping, no power, run like shit. Turned out to be a bad MAF. Couldn't hurt to try another O'Reily part. What happened to the Ford parts you found?

The Ford parts I found were Autolite rebuilt units and they were 55 mm not 70 (after I opened the box). I guess the guy looked up the wrong part? I found a place that has NOS Ford 93 Cobra MAF's but they want $299.00 for them. If I KNEW that would fix it I would buy one in a minute but right now I don't know what to do. I guess check the codes and the TPS first.

JJ
01-26-2009, 11:05 AM
cobra132

I have a spare 80mm maf if that will help. FMR
01-26-2009, 11:13 AM
ShadowBolt

Thanks Frank but I think in CMC it must be a stock unit. If i'm wrong I'll order a C&L.

JJ
01-26-2009, 11:16 AM
RichardP

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

Thanks Frank but I think in CMC it must be a stock unit.

That's true but it doesn't have to be stock to do diagnostic work...

Richard P.
01-26-2009, 11:18 AM
ShadowBolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardP

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

Thanks Frank but I think in CMC it must be a stock unit.

That's true but it doesn't have to be stock to do diagnostic work...

Richard P.

True dat.

Brink it if you think about it Frank. Rob is going to bring one from his Cobra so that one should be the best one for a test.

JJ
01-26-2009, 11:45 AM
marshall_mosty

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardP

That's true but it doesn't have to be stock to do diagnostic work...

I can have Michael pull my 24lb MAF (Pro-M 75mm) and bring it as well. It's been pretty solid for me.
01-26-2009, 12:01 PM
ShadowBolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshall_mosty

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardP

That's true but it doesn't have to be stock to do diagnostic work...

I can have Michael pull my 24lb MAF (Pro-M 75mm) and bring it as well. It's been pretty solid for me.

Thanks Marshall.
01-26-2009, 12:17 PM
Rob Liebbe

Keep after it Jerry, don't wait until you show up Friday night.
01-26-2009, 12:31 PM
ShadowBolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

Keep after it Jerry, don't wait until you show up Friday night.

Yes sir!

It will run okay (just rich as hell) with the old MAF so it's not like I have to fix it to be able to run.

JJ
01-26-2009, 01:17 PM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

Keep after it Jerry, don't wait until you show up Friday night.

Yes sir!

It will run okay (just rich as hell) with the old MAF so it's not like I have to fix it to be able to run.

JJ

I wouldn't wash down the cylinder walls of that brand new motor running it that rich....

Also, I don't think Frank's will work...has a different plug. Marshall's would probably be the best test so you are matching 24lb injectors to a 24lb maf....and a cobra computer.

Good luck!
01-26-2009, 01:22 PM
RichardP

Quote:

Originally Posted by AI#97

Marshall's would probably be the best test so you are matching 24lb injectors to a 24lb maf....and a cobra computer.

Just remember that a 24lb maf generally assumes you are using 24lb injectors with a stock calibration computer (what I would recomend, if it was legal...). A cobra computer requires a "cobra" maf along with 24lb injectors. Mixing and matching doesn't work unless you go into the computer and just put in the transfer function. That's of course the best way but not in CMC...

Richard P.
01-26-2009, 01:48 PM
ShadowBolt

No, Rob's should be the best. It's a stock Cobra MAF for 24lb. injectors.

JJ
01-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Rob Liebbe

Jerry,

Keep reminding me. Evidently I have achieve a certain "vintage" according to at least one member of this forum and may need some help remembering.
01-26-2009, 07:45 PM
BryanL

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllZWay

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchntx

My car runs stupid rich too. I've just learned to live with it.

Mine too... the rear of the car is black after a race weekend.

Would that be from hitting the tires or from Glenns bumper?

Mitch-does your car still run rich without the restrictor.

Jerry-those numbers sound just like the restricted LS1's so I wouldn't worry too much. Though Mitch did put his car on a diet but I'm sure he offset that with chili, cookies, and ice cream over the winter. Good luck getting the car running better.
01-26-2009, 07:48 PM
mitchntx

For someone not going to make, you sure are talking a lot of trash ...

Yes, the car runs rich unrestricted, but, not as bad.
01-26-2009, 09:08 PM
cobra132

Its in the tool box. FMR
01-26-2009, 09:29 PM
marshall_mosty

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardP

Quote:

Originally Posted by AI#97

Marshall's would probably be the best test so you are matching 24lb injectors to a 24lb maf....and a cobra computer.

Just remember that a 24lb maf generally assumes you are using 24lb injectors with a stock calibration computer (what I would recomend, if it was legal...). A cobra computer requires a "cobra" maf along with 24lb injectors. Mixing and matching doesn't work unless you go into the computer and just put in the transfer function. That's of course the best way but not in CMC...

I will send my spare A9L as well... just so they are a matched pair. :D

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