Rule of the Day - Confidentiality

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03-24-2009, 09:29 PM
mitchntx

Rule of the Day - Confidentiality

Quote:

17.4 Confidentiality

A competitor has a right to protect information about legal modifications and setup pertaining to their vehicles from other competitors. If a competitor feels that inspection by the Tech Inspector (i.e. if the Inspector is another competitor) will result in loss of information to another team, he/she may lodge such an objection with the Inspector.
Once an objection has been lodged, the Tech Inspector will remain in impound while the competitor locates the Race Director. The Race Director will then make the determination of legality. The tech inspector may watch the vehicle or assign someone to watch it, but shall not conduct any inspections, other than those agreed upon between
himself/herself and the driver.

How is forcing us to turn over our dyno sheets and making them publicly available not violate 17.4?
03-24-2009, 09:34 PM
Todd Covini

Series rules supercede CCR.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...olio1_7144.gif
03-24-2009, 09:38 PM
mitchntx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Todd Covini

Series rules supercede CCR.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...olio1_7144.gif

Quote:

3.9 Dynamometer Certification

All participants who wish to compile season points must submit a certified dynamometer report prior to the start of the race or make arrangements to have a dyno test performed immediately after the race. The dynamometer inspection will consist of two parts, a completed CMC Dyno Spec Sheet and Dyno Sheet Readout Graphs. All pages must be signed and dated by the dynamometer operator performing the tests. These forms must be kept with the vehicle's logbook and be ready to present to any official. The CMC Dyno Spec Sheet includes instructions for performing the official dynamometer inspection, which must be followed in order for the dyno inspection to be valid. The Dyno Spec Sheet is available on the CMC website or from the CMC Chief Director, see section 10.

I don't see making 2 copies and turning one in for public consumption anywhere in there.

So are you making these RotDs up as you go?
03-25-2009, 10:33 AM
Wirtz

I know I have talked about this stuff last year.

Why is it so hard for there to be a folder on this site that is login protected to put this collected data?
03-25-2009, 11:04 AM
mitchntx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wirtz

I know I have talked about this stuff last year.

Why is it so hard for there to be a folder on this site that is login protected to put this collected data?

Not sure I understand, Jeff. How would that maintain 17.4 as it's written in the CCR?
03-25-2009, 11:05 AM
evarner

The CMC Dyno Spec Sheet should not be mandatory public information (not sure if it now or not). If I had a complaint or opposition (which I don't, but bringing it up for discussion) it would be that no other competitor (including directors) should be allowed to see the CMC Dyno Spec Sheet.

Even the dyno graph is in question and all that should be presented is pass/fail.

Legal competitive advantages should be made public?

Again, this is for discussion and does not necessarily present my point of view on the matter.
03-25-2009, 12:21 PM
Adam Ginsberg

These RotD have proven highly informative, as well as perspective-changing.

IMO, turning a dyno sheet copy over to a Series Director isn't exactly making it available for public consumption.

I'd honor a competitor's request to keep his/her dyno sheet private WRT other competitors viewing. However, the flip side of making a request like that could raise the eyebrows of their competitors.

Just another point of view.
03-25-2009, 01:39 PM
mitchntx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Ginsberg

These RotD have proven highly informative, as well as perspective-changing.

IMO, turning a dyno sheet copy over to a Series Director isn't exactly making it available for public consumption.

I'd honor a competitor's request to keep his/her dyno sheet private WRT other competitors viewing. However, the flip side of making a request like that could raise the eyebrows of their competitors.

Just another point of view.

Good point.

But if you read 3.9 of the 2009 CMC rules, it doesn't say we have to turn one in. It says:

Quote:

These forms must be kept with the vehicle's logbook and be ready to present to any official.

"be ready to present" says "make available if asked" and not "turn it in before you go on track at your first event" like we've been led to believe.

As far as raising eyebrows ... raise'em. File the protest paperwork. But be careful if you do ... 17.6 can bite you in the butt.

I agree ... these RotDs are eye openers ... Makes you RE-re-read with different thought process.
03-25-2009, 07:00 PM
Nick

Quote:

Originally Posted by evarner

The CMC Dyno Spec Sheet should not be mandatory public information (not sure if it now or not). If I had a complaint or opposition (which I don't, but bringing it up for discussion) it would be that no other competitor (including directors) should be allowed to see the CMC Dyno Spec Sheet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Ginsberg

IMO, turning a dyno sheet copy over to a Series Director isn't exactly making it available for public consumption.

When a dyno sheet copy given to the directors became a "rule", I was told that at any time we could see any competitor's dyno sheet.

Is the director/coordinator having a copy of the dyno sheet a possible advantage (especially if "regular" competitor's can't see it)?
03-25-2009, 08:22 PM
GlennCMC70

everything i collect is available to anyone who wants to see it. so there is no advantage to those who collect this info.
if we are going to police our own series, it will have to be done by those who race w/in it. its just the cards we were delt.
03-25-2009, 08:25 PM
mitchntx

No one is denying that.

But according to 3.9, it's not required to give the series a copy of the dyno sheet.
03-25-2009, 08:30 PM
GlennCMC70

i was only answering Nick.
03-25-2009, 08:30 PM
mitchntx

What flavor Kool-aid?
03-25-2009, 09:01 PM
Todd Covini

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchntx

No one is denying that.

But according to 3.9, it's not required to give the series a copy of the dyno sheet.

Aren't we slicing the balony too thin?
What's the difference between "be ready to present" and "bring it to first race" or "have it after qualifying" or "show me in tech" or ....or...or

In every instance, you're "ready to present" and following the rules.

Submiting and filing dyno sheets was an efficiency so folks didn't have to worry about "being ready to present" every event because too often "the dog ate it" or "I can't find it" or "Which one do you want...I've got so many". Those deficiencies can result in a DQ, which nobody wants.

By filing it with the directors, you no longer have to be ready....we've got it on file. No need to be ready any more, if it changes let us know. (We got this from Nationals.)

Everyone's got funner things to do on a race weekends than having to verify dyno sheets IMO.
03-25-2009, 09:07 PM
mitchntx

Fair enough, Todd. By turning it in it's a convenience for the directors and the racers. I can buy that.

But by what you just posted, it still means it's voluntary and not mandatory.
03-25-2009, 09:17 PM
Todd Covini

If you're required to "be ready to present" and the director asks you to present it on the first weekend, then it's mandatory. No?

The fact that someone kept a copy of it saves the big ugly marine and the loud laughing spaniard from pestering you every weekend for it.

That's worth the one time hassle IMO and reduces the risk of you not "being ready to present" every weekend.
03-25-2009, 09:39 PM
mitchntx

Understand ... my call ... like running without fans or with half a load of fuel.

Thanks for clearing that up. 8)

Shouldn't you post a new RotD ...

Pregnant drivers ... :roll:
03-25-2009, 10:23 PM
jeffburch

Big difference in "ready to present" and confinscate or forfiet.

Look with your eyes, not your hands.
I paid my $75.
Seal me for you own copy, again.
:arrow: :P

jb
03-26-2009, 08:43 AM
Al Fernandez

I'd be happy to submit a change for 2010 to make this mandatory if that will make you happy :lol: :wink:
03-26-2009, 08:53 AM
mitchntx

One step forward ....

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitchntx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

should slow to pace speed (2nd gear, 3000rpm) immediately and stay at that speed. Everyone else should drive at a reduced but fast pace, observing the caution area and reducing speed significantly through that area, maintaining 100% control a tall times until they catch the guy in front. Absolutely no passing unless passing emergency vehicles or a pace car with a point by.

Some real world data that can be used by a driver while on track. There is hope for you yet, Fernandez.

I can live with 3K in second for DYs

Two steps back ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

I'd be happy to submit a change for 2010 to make this mandatory if that will make you happy :lol: :wink:

:roll:
03-26-2009, 10:02 AM
Al Fernandez

:lol:
03-26-2009, 10:23 AM
BlueFirePony

Ahh...the NASA Texas AI/CMC two step.