Any World Challenge info?

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04-05-2009, 09:15 PM
BlueFirePony

Any World Challenge info?

Anyone see how the WC cars did in March? I did not hear any issues with tire fall-off but anyone happen to save the live-scoring so we can see laptimes?

Can't compare last years race to this year 'cause it rained last year, but qualifying look very comparable with 2:10 and change as fastest qualifying last year and this year.

“It is the first race of the season and there are a lot of question marks that are soon going to be answered when it goes green tomorrow,” said Pobst. “I think that with my K-PAX Porsche I can run it hard and it will be consistent throughout the race. I think that the new Toyo R-888 might not last as long as the old RA-1 and we have been working on setting up for that so it may work to our advantage in the long run."

We're not the only ones learning....
04-06-2009, 09:11 AM
michaelmosty

We are not learning, just bitching alot!!! :lol:
04-06-2009, 09:19 AM
AJ@PST

Brian- remember that in WC many teams and engineers optimize the vehicle's geometry for the tire and ride heights. Adjustments that are not legal in CMC classes and may be too expensive for most of the AI field... Just look at the ACS mustangs or the Caddys next to the factory built car that we can all purchase...

Lastly, you will not find a series that has more politics than WC and the tough job of equalizing all of the different makes and combinations...
04-06-2009, 09:28 AM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ@PST

Brian- remember that in WC many teams and engineers optimize the vehicle's geometry for the tire and ride heights. Adjustments that are not legal in CMC classes and may be too expensive for most of the AI field... Just look at the ACS mustangs or the Caddys next to the factory built car that we can all purchase...

Lastly, you will not find a series that has more politics than WC and the tough job of equalizing all of the different makes and combinations...

AJ, is there a way to get ahold of WC laptimes from their events? Are they on Mylaps like the rest of us?

Thanks.
04-06-2009, 09:39 AM
AJ@PST

Quote:

Originally Posted by AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ@PST

Brian- remember that in WC many teams and engineers optimize the vehicle's geometry for the tire and ride heights. Adjustments that are not legal in CMC classes and may be too expensive for most of the AI field... Just look at the ACS mustangs or the Caddys next to the factory built car that we can all purchase...

Lastly, you will not find a series that has more politics than WC and the tough job of equalizing all of the different makes and combinations...

AJ, is there a way to get ahold of WC laptimes from their events? Are they on Mylaps like the rest of us?

Thanks.

look at the results on their website. That is the only easy way I know of.
04-06-2009, 01:25 PM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ@PST

look at the results on their website. That is the only easy way I know of.

MFW Wins! So I have all the competitors time cards for most of 2008 for GT and TC and working on getting 2007's as well... Who would have thought to send an email to the SCCA pro staff and have the info less than two hours later?! Badass!!!
04-06-2009, 01:44 PM
michaelmosty

Quote:

Originally Posted by AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJ@PST

look at the results on their website. That is the only easy way I know of.

MFW Wins! So I have all the competitors time cards for most of 2008 for GT and TC and working on getting 2007's as well... Who would have thought to send an email to the SCCA pro staff and have the info less than two hours later?! Badass!!!

MFW Rules, but Glenn is still Da Man!! 8)
04-06-2009, 01:51 PM
AI#97

I will say this much...the TC guys are some consistant and FAST MF'ers!!! TC times at MO were in the 1:34's....AI is in the 36's and 37's...!!! :shock:
04-06-2009, 03:15 PM
AI#97

so uh...looking at Mr. Pobst times from 07', his best was a 1:27.5 at MO...in 08' his best was a 29.0 with a lot of 30's and 31's....I remember him being in a good race in 7th or so....

However, Archer in the viper was going faster on the 888's but I think the viper got a weight brake in 08 and he was also saddled with a LOT of rewards weight from 07' success...

VERY interesting the DATA is....
04-06-2009, 03:52 PM
AI#97

I should be bored as hell in the hotel this week while traveling. I am going to try and build a spreadsheet with all the times from 07 and 08 for each driver/track to see if the WC teams can figure this stuff out with their money and engineers. So far, it's been 50/50 with a 1 minute glance at the numbers.... I also need to determine what the weather was like at the events so hopefully I can get backdated info on that too...

I also have Sebring 09....to compare if they figured out anything new.

I think I am going to focus on Pobst, Archer, Pilgrim, Curran, Davis and Crescintini. Maybe look at another vette or two as well.

anyone got any other drivers to recommend?
04-06-2009, 07:00 PM
BlueFirePony

AJ - I hear you. I am just hoping to take the debate into a different direction - frankly away from my fellow racers debating each other and NASA and toward some form of constructive learning using the $ and time that the pro series have to commit to this new tire.

MFW - thanks for stepping up on this...I would have never thought to contact the SCCA staff directly...you got my vote for Prez!
04-07-2009, 07:54 AM
GlennCMC70

http://www.maddogmotorsports.ca/down...mendations.zip

very good info.
04-07-2009, 05:11 PM
AI#97

I did some entry this am for M.O in 07 to 08. So far for Archer, Pobst and Pilgrim. The two production based cars were having issues maintaining fast laps, but ultimately got pretty close to the RA1 times. The Caddy however is a FREAK!!!! Pilgrim is a VERY, VERY consistant driver with some laps less than .1 apart for 3 or more laps in a row!!! The Trick caddy pretty well matched it's times which tells me purpose built cars with trick chassis and engineers work well on the 888. I may try to compare a couple of the lesser funded drivers to see what they did....they might be more like your typical AI/CMC racer who gets in the car and drives it without 3 engineers backing them up!
04-07-2009, 05:34 PM
jeremiahkellam

Quote:

Originally Posted by AI#97

I may try to compare a couple of the lesser funded drivers to see what they did....they might be more like your typical AI/CMC racer who gets in the car and drives it without 3 engineers backing them up!

That's what I was wanting to see, the smaller teams...
04-07-2009, 07:13 PM
michaelmosty

The economy is hurting a little. I had to cut back my team from $2 mill. / year to around $500k. I knew there was a reason why I have been drinking Keystone Light. :lol:
04-07-2009, 07:43 PM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremiahkellam

That's what I was wanting to see, the smaller teams...

Pick one that comes to mind and I will input it first....I was thinking about Tony Gaples next...
04-07-2009, 09:04 PM
jeremiahkellam

Gaples would be perfect. I'm sure not much development had been done with the corvette over the last 2 seasons.
04-07-2009, 11:08 PM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

http://www.maddogmotorsports.ca/downloads/r888toyotiresrecommendations.zip

very good info.

Well, I took the time to read most of that and here is my take away...

Toyo tells us we need to run 42-45lbs hot...yet all their data on the first sheet is labeled as "IP=32", I am guessing inflated pressure? Nice!

Data clearly shows increased temp on the R888, and once again, it was on a 205/50/15! :roll:

Other item I would like to point out about the "larger tread section" is that it may be wider unloaded...however, if it doesn't touch the ground, it is worthless to have more tread/weight. for example, most all the R888's I have seen mounted on the rear of the car have a section of tread about 1.25" to 1.5" wide that has yet to touch the ground, even going out at 21lbs of cold inflation!

Frankly, I don't trust ANY info coming from Toyo... :?
04-08-2009, 06:47 AM
GlennCMC70

so are you saying 21lbs of cold inflation is alot?
for the R888?
04-08-2009, 09:17 AM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

so are you saying 21lbs of cold inflation is alot?
for the R888?

No. I think that is a sweet spot to get up to about 30-31 hot. Now if you meant to type 31lbs cold, yes...too much.

Same descrepancy on pressures from Toyo as the RA1 really.
04-08-2009, 01:44 PM
Al Fernandez

Quote:

Toyo tells us we need to run 42-45lbs hot...yet all their data on the first sheet is labeled as "IP=32", I am guessing inflated pressure? Nice!

Not really...that is only the first page, that looks to do nothing more than show section width. The next two pages show IP of 25, 35, and 45 on a 235-17. The different lines would presumably be vertical force ?(converted...985, 1182, 1313, and 1751lbs) showing the higher the vertical force on the tire the higher the cornering grip...but not linearly.
04-08-2009, 04:56 PM
AI#97

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Quote:

Toyo tells us we need to run 42-45lbs hot...yet all their data on the first sheet is labeled as "IP=32", I am guessing inflated pressure? Nice!

Not really...that is only the first page, that looks to do nothing more than show section width. The next two pages show IP of 25, 35, and 45 on a 235-17. The different lines would presumably be vertical force ?(converted...985, 1182, 1313, and 1751lbs) showing the higher the vertical force on the tire the higher the cornering grip...but not linearly.

True, but higher pressures "should" create less contact patch as the tread bulges and the side wall doesn't deflect....especially with the stiffer sidewall. I know the tires are much stiffer than an RA1 but to ALSO run the tire at 42 to 45 lbs, would be like driving on concrete...so yeah, soften the setup. the problem, is there isn't a lot of softening AI cars can do without hosing all the geometry. It's almost to a point I think we need the triple adjustable shocks to adjust jounce/rebound and high speed jounce to control the wheel/tire with less control by the spring. WC guys already have these $5k shocks to play with at will....I really don't want to have to buy them to make this tire work....I already have to account for a larger tire bill as it is. but we will see how this goes I guess.