Out of class racing

Something I'm not quite clear on yet is exactly what constitutes out of class racing....I know it's frowned upon and understand why but where is the line drawn? Here are some theoretical scenarios I either have been or expect to be involved in at some point: (betchya can't guess which are which :lol: )

Scenario A - an AI car goes off, has a bad start, or for some other reason ends up behind a pack of let's say 4 CMC2 cars and wants to catch an AI car in front of that pack. If the AI car tries to make his way through the CMC2 pack is that a problem? If the CMC2 cars protect the inside line preventing a pass, is that a problem?

Scenario B - The reverse of that would be let's say two AI cars battling it out and a CMC2 car passes one of them and gets in the middle. Any issue there?

Scenario C - Two backmarkers in different classes and nobody else in sight. Seems silly to say they can't try to pass each other but wouldn't that technically be "out of class racing"?

I know it's a gray area but some sort of guideline would really help guide my decisions on track.

I would think it applies not so much to the faster car (whether an AI car behind CMC or Michael Mosty behind us :lol: ) trying to make the pass but the car or cars in front trying to "race" the car behind them, i.e. blocking, stealing a line through turns, etc.

In R4, I was trying to catch Frank going down the front straight when James Proctor caught up to me. I moved to the side and braked early so he could get by on the inside. Just then, Frank spun in the turn. I may or may not have had a good chance to pass if I held my line on front of James, but I figured he had a better shot at catching Michael if I let him by.

Sometimes I'll hold my line if it's through a tricky section, but I'll let the person by at the first opportunity I can, and these guys usually extend the courtesy of waiting for the chance to pass rather than stuffing it in on me somewhere to get by quicker.

The first question to ask is, "Are my actions going to negatively affect the outcome of this race?"
There is no clear cut answer. It is a judgement call at best for racers and officials. It will have to be a grossly obvious example for us to act on it.
It is also a bigger deal to affect for say the top 3 in a class than the bottom 3.
Oh, and do to others as you would have them do to you. It works both ways. I've seen guys who had zero respect in this area recieve zero respect in return x 10.

We haven't had many if any isues over the past couple years, but w/ more classes being dumped on track w/ us in the future, it will happen.
Me and Jeff Burch have a great story to tell. Ask me one day face to face.

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Originally Posted by Casey_SS

Something I'm not quite clear on yet is exactly what constitutes out of class racing....I know it's frowned upon and understand why but where is the line drawn? Here are some theoretical scenarios I either have been or expect to be involved in at some point: (betchya can't guess which are which :lol: )

Scenario A - an AI car goes off, has a bad start, or for some other reason ends up behind a pack of let's say 4 CMC2 cars and wants to catch an AI car in front of that pack. If the AI car tries to make his way through the CMC2 pack is that a problem? If the CMC2 cars protect the inside line preventing a pass, is that a problem?

Scenario B - The reverse of that would be let's say two AI cars battling it out and a CMC2 car passes one of them and gets in the middle. Any issue there?

Scenario C - Two backmarkers in different classes and nobody else in sight. Seems silly to say they can't try to pass each other but wouldn't that technically be "out of class racing"?

I know it's a gray area but some sort of guideline would really help guide my decisions on track.

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IMHO:
It all depends how far you are away from your next closest competitor. It also greatly depends on how fast you are in relation to the AI car in front of you and the CMC2 cars in front of you. That is why it is crucial to know your competitors!!! Know the lap times of every single person on the track regardless of class.

A. If the lead AI car is in front of the 4 CMC2 cars by 30 seconds and you are essentially 30 seconds back then I would say stay out of it. The only difference would be if you were 5 seconds / lap faster than the lead AI car and you knew (under most circumstances) you would be able to make it through all CMC2 competitors in a clean manner quickly with a logical chance of catching the lead AI car.
It would be bad if the lead AI car was 10 seconds in the lead, the race was 1/2 over, and you knew you were the same speed as him and needed him to make a mistake.

B. If the CMC2 car had another CMC2 competitor right in front of the two AI cars battling it out then all is fair game. If the CMC2 competitor is leading the race and doesn't have anyone behind him for a while then he needs to hold off. If the CMC2 competitor is leading his race but has another CMC2 competitor up his ass then he is going to do everything he can to put one of the two AI cars b/w his CMC2 competitor.
*example: R3, I was leading the race with 1 lap to go and Dave passed me on the front straight. Marshall was right behind me and Corey was right behind him. I tried everything I could to not let Marshall by b/c Corey was right behind him. Marshall got by me going into diamonds edge and set off for Dave. I had a "safe" 1-2 second gap from Corey so I held my position and didn't try to overtake Marshall again. He ended up getting very close to Dave but got 2nd. Had I let him by a little sooner in the lap he would have had a better chance to potentially pass Dave but then I would have had a better chance of getting passed by Corey. I'm not going to take that risk, I'm racing for me, not my bro. 8)

C. I would think the two back markers would want to race and have as much fun as possible. The only difference would be if a third car joined the mix that changed it to an in-class race for two of them.

Out of class racing is sometimes a tough call.

My thought is always that if I am in a close battle racing with another car in my class...that is my priority and I don't worry about other cars from other classes. They can pass me as they find room. I don't attempt to block, but I don't necessarily pull over and let them pass.

If I am NOT right on the tail of my competitor, then I will always let a faster out of class car by with zero fight.

The primary thought in my mind is that you are not purposely blocking an out of class car from passing, otherwise it is just racing.

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Originally Posted by michaelmosty

Had I let him by a little sooner in the lap he would have had a better chance to potentially pass Dave but then I would have had a better chance of getting passed by Corey. I'm not going to take that risk, I'm racing for me, not my bro. 8)

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Honestly Michael, I couldn't have passed you any sooner in the race... you guys were hooked up. Trying to get past Corey "Tokyo Drift" Reuth was a tall order!! Fun regardless!

So, you are an out of class racer following a group of 5 or more racers in the same class, that are racing nose to tail for the most part, on the first lap of the race. You are the only car in your class on the track.
Do you engage?

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Originally Posted by rleng1

So, you are an out of class racer following a group of 5 or more racers in the same class, that are racing nose to tail for the most part, on the first lap of the race. You are the only car in your class on the track.
Do you engage?

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Only if a car within your class gets to your tail.

There is no reason for the 6 cars ahead of you to expect you to throw your own race so that they can have theirs.

If you are by yourself, then position your car to get some good footage for the YE video.

Last year at Hallett, I wasn't in the points chase. The 18, the 22 and the 11 car came up behind me.

I moved over and let those guys go, even though they were in class. had it only been one of the three, I'd probably raced them a lot harder.

But I knew that Jeremiah and Micheal were nose to tail on track and in points. I didn't want to mess with that.

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Originally Posted by rleng1

So, you are an out of class racer following a group of 5 or more racers in the same class, that are racing nose to tail for the most part, on the first lap of the race. You are the only car in your class on the track.
Do you engage?

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No, and he was talked to about this. He did show up late in the day and missed the Group meeting. He was not excused for his actions since he was not in attendance.
He was not the only one talked to from our group about this.

Thanks, just trying to understand the rules of the road, and what would be the appropriate behavior.
Casey and I evidently lost touch with the pack, and we begin to have our own lead/follow exercise, which benefited both of us, and was tremendous fun. No harm, no foul.

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Originally Posted by rleng1

Thanks, just trying to understand the rules of the road, and what would be the appropriate behavior.
Casey and I evidently lost touch with the pack, and we begin to have our own lead/follow exercise, which benefited both of us, and was tremendous fun. No harm, no foul.

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And is highly encouraged as long as no contact takes place.

Moral of the weekend, because everyone ran off to the duece, it would be smarter to run 2 since I'm faster than a decent portion of 2 as is....run from #3 and it'll hunt you down. :lol:

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Originally Posted by JasonLiiR

Moral of the weekend, because everyone ran off to the duece, it would be smarter to run 2...

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Perfect idea!

The duece has been the plan for the last 4 years, come on over and enjoy the fun!!

Soon the duece will be dropped and it will just be CMC.

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Originally Posted by michaelmosty

The duece has been the plan for the last 4 years, come on over and enjoy the fun!!

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Yep.. the more the merrier.

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Originally Posted by GlennCMC70

Soon the duece will be dropped and it will just be CMC.

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Puts a new meaning to the term "dropping a duece".

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Originally Posted by JasonLiiR

since I'm faster than a decent portion of 2 as is....run from #3 and it'll hunt you down. :lol:

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Unless you run the duece, you will never know.
Just wait until I get my cane fixed.

Let me know when you need some help fixing that cane English.