It could be that TWS will be gone as a race track soon. Developers want to put in 1500 homes and if everything is approved they want to start construction in 2015-2016. My brother just read the whole article to me. Very sad.
JJ
Printable View
It could be that TWS will be gone as a race track soon. Developers want to put in 1500 homes and if everything is approved they want to start construction in 2015-2016. My brother just read the whole article to me. Very sad.
JJ
link:
http://wtaw.com/2014/03/13/plans-to-...ned-community/
Lots of hoops for the developers to jump through, it's not over yet.
Very true but it will happen sooner or later.Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrewmr2
The first time I went to TWS was in 1972 or 1973 for the Texas Twin 250 (250 miles of NASCAR then 250 miles of Indy cars back to back) and it was way out in the boonies.
JJ
I would say the outcome can't be good for TWS. I bet there is a lot more money in those homes than in a racetrack. :(
Sucks to lose an awesome track just for some more houses that could go somewhere else.
I thought it was an EPA Brownfield site and would take an ungodly amount of money to cleanup?
Maybe the new will be worn off of COTA by then and it can fill in for the TWS dates.
If that somehow happened it would be great for me. I'm not holding my breath.Quote:
Originally Posted by mach1
JJ
city is excited about this...however, the developer is working a position to limit his losses. They are proposing this so that the developer is guaranteed reimbursement from the city for infrastructure improvements REGARDLESS if it is finished out. build out is proposed over 15 years. Phase 1 would be to bulldoze the site and put in streets, water, sewer. At that point the developer could walk away with their money in hand and the city has all the necessary work done to expand into that area. Win for both....bad for tax payers and racers.
While I don't want to see this happen, it will some day. Time to pool our resources of racers in the state and build a new track. Call it TWS 2.0 with fresh surface and clean facilities. Same layout, same corners....just new and fresh.
<---considering setting up fund for donations to start this up! I'd love to own me a racetrack.
Save TWS petition.
http://soonerbillz.com/SaveTWS/
hopefully some of the city council isn't big on knocking out the only real non-university related reason to ever visit the city.
Café Capri, The "Dirty Sock" and the George Bush Presidential Library are at least three other reasons. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrewmr2
I can come up with a longer list for a lame place like Tomball, TX....
(full disclosure - Tomball HS Class of 2000 here)
You, just like everyone else, just don't get what it means to be an Aggie.
That being said after having graduated from A&M I only go back for TWS and Caffe Capri. Never was a sports fan and outgrew most of what I used to do in that town a long time ago.
So true... if not for TWS... and Cafe Capri as result of the banquet... I would never visit College Station.Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrewmr2
From the TWS FB page:
The real problem here is all of this federal money being pumped into university programs and this notion that everyone has to go to college to succeed in life. Cut federal money, teach universities how to price their tuition against an open market with less bloat, and funnel everyone going for less than an engineering/science/hard degree into trade schools. Less people will go to A&M and drive up demand for housing and tuition.Quote:
Tap the brakes on the rumor mill!
A recent news report shows a redevelopment plan for the property on which TWS sits. Rumors are flying fast and furious, and there are even "Save TWS" petitions roaming the interwebs.
First, let it be known that the management at TWS loves this track as much or more than anyone. No one spends this much time and effort, often 7 days a week, on something they don't care about. That said, the property was purchased several years ago and the owners made no misrepresentations about their intentions. They are real estate investors, not motorsports facility operators. There was an ongoing attempt to sell the property, and an IPO to clubs and racers, and no one in the motorsports world seemed to be interested.
Now the owners have filed a redevelopment plan for the property so that, at some point in the future, the property can be repurposed for residential and other uses. Keep three things in mind:
1. That is the eventual fate of TWS, regardless of who owns it. College Station is a high growth area and is moving South. At some point in the future, TWS will be no more.
2. This is an eventuality that most of us understood, but none of us knew, or know the exact timeframe of.
3. It's only a plan that shows the owners intentions. As some of you know, there are a number of hoops to jump through between the first plan and breaking ground.
So what does this mean for the racing community? Right now, not much. We know what we've always known - TWS could be sold or redeveloped at any time. So nothing really changes for the ongoing operation of the track. All contracts will be honored, and unless track management is instructed otherwise, we will start writing 2015 contracts in the Fall. Improvements will continue.
The owners will let us know months in advance of anything that will impact speedway operations, so no one will be surprised or left holding the bag, whether it's 18 months or 5 years down the road.
Until then, it's business as usual here.
In the end the sprawl that will eventually consume TWS will be stopped and in 30+ years from now whatever kids I pop out can actually afford to go to college; at this rate I'm sure a 4 year ride would cost a few hundred grand...
wonder if they'll still want to ding every vehicle that comes in $5 for the capital improvement fund
Have Dave SUPER BOLD AND HIGHLIGHT the "do not harass gateworker about $5 fee" note on the welcome letter.
Poor guys up front are just there to make some side cash, they don't need anymore shit from us and what we read on the internet.
Also leave your dogs at home and don't complain about the restrooms.
I'd happily continue to pay it if I knew it was going to improve the facility instead of lining the ownership group's pockets. If teardown starts 1/1/2015, what do you think that $5 you give them this coming April will go to?
That's just me though...
Be sure to bring it up to track mgmt in person, after you pay the $5 fee to get in to talk to them.
Looking on Loop this morning, I found no less than 60 development properties in the Bryan/CS area that are unfinished or available right now. The grand total of those properties in value and space exceed the TWS property totals. Most don't even need improvements as they are already there. I just wish the city would take into account the track record of this developer and the failures it has had in the past. I'd hate to see the 2nd largest draw for people to CS turn into a bridge to nowhere....which is exactly what would be needed to exit the "eastern" back side of the property....you know. That place out behind turn 6 that constantly has calls for gunfire and a huge drill rig in the way!
The city is so blinded by dollar signs right now, the "developer" will get permission as listed above. The nice thing is, I don't think the developer has the money to do a quarter of the work they say they want to do so they will need investors. Hopefully, the same smart investors that walked out half way through the last presentation given by these guys to "improve" and privatize the track.
However, the track will eventually go away if just into bankruptcy and stop operations. Someone should just start working the system and find some land, say 300 acres. Find some investors with about $5 million in the fund, and build a new track in Texas. I have been finding land up in Normangee and Calvert (both 30 minutes from Bryan/CS or less) with 300-500 acres for around $1M dollars. That leaves $4 Million or so to do some grading, grubbing, garage, paddock and track paving. Put the investors/bank on a 30 year payout and make a go at it. There are 9 organizations renting TWS practically every weekend of the year and those folks are going to be fighting for available days at the remaining tracks. Weekend rentals are about to go up, so you can build that into your business model...I have one BTW, to run the track. As long as you don't completely screw up the track layout and have enough paddock space and clean restrooms with a track that is fun and doesn't eat cars, it's a no brainer that you will have people standing in line to rent the place. Build it out in the boonies with low taxes and rock on!
all we need is the money men to back us!
You just nominated yourself as our rep. at the city council meeting. Think you are right that the best odds are being able to get the funding from investors who care about making a profit. Governments don't work off the need to make a profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by AI#97
Though it helps to be near enough in the boonies but close enough to a major city. Cresson is a great example-lot of recurring revenue from the garages and members. Interesting to compare it's model to something like TWS which just rents it out. Wait till F1 pulls out of COTA and the new wears off and hopefully we can run there.
Is there any way to get old/new demensional drawings on TWS? Track width, corner radii, etc. Does FIA publish things like runoff room, containment areas, etc.?
I think it's a long putt, but you would need the dimensions to look for property.
BL just reduced his racing budget... he can probably just write a check. Or we'll start the Texas AI/CMC MegaMillions/Powerball fund... each time the jackpot is over $350mm we'll buy in.
martin cain has GPS data from both inside and outside edge of the track in his traqmate. I am sure we could get it again pretty easy. To duplicate the exact dimensions of the 2.9 road course, you need a plot of land approximately 3800' x 3500' IIRC. that is around 330 acres. Most of the land around here is long and thin and would not work....but I am looking.
Keep in mind, they need money to make this happen and the partners rarely use their own money...it's a developer thing. Risk other people's money on their hair-brained idea. The biggest issue is that the property value will go up the minute the city says "yes". they will then try to leverage that to raise capital. The environmental hoops to jump through will give them data on what the cost is to "clean the site" and prepare it for homes. Then they can start looking for capital and any smart investor won't drop a dime until that cost is known, so capital raising will likely be delayed until later this year unless something unexpected happens along the way and they find money to kickstart the utilities work. Biggest worry at this point is the CS council setting up to annex the site which would double or triple the property taxes.
While we have known this was the plan since 2007, it is far from actually closing down. The city council approval to move forward is merely the first step in a series of steps that spends a LOT of money....I personally don't think the current owners have the cash unless they have already started securing funding through other means....but I doubt it as raising $20 Million in capital right now to get started would be DAMN difficult. I'm not all doom and gloom on this but we as a racing community should have a plan B in the event the planets align and the track gets leveled.
Who setup the NOLA track? Seems like a solid model. Onsite track, dragstrip, autocross pad, rallyX site.
Surprised more tracks don't take this approach...
going to be tough to recreate the track in all 3 dimensions - that z-axis is what makes the track more fun (to me anyway)
"far from shutting down" means what Matt? Just curious. Still race there in... 2015? '16? '17? '20? '50?
if they can actually raise money for phase 1 (utilities, level the site and start building roads), I'd say Mid 2015' depending how much they try to bite off. If they can't raise enough money, they can possibly develop the commercial sites along the highway, sell those to fund the demolition of the track and move deeper into the development site. It will also depend on what the city will allow them to do at each phase. Keep in mind, the city doesn't want unfinished areas they then have to spend money on to finish. Now, those lots out front have been for sale since 2007 at a discount as they have no utilities. Installing utilities will raise the value, but if they haven't sold at X, they aren't going to sell at 2X. Again, hard to find capital to fund this endeavor.Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrewmr2
Realistically, we could be racing there for another 4 to 5 years if funding can't be found. on the other hand, we might only get to race there till the end of this year if a pot of gold is found....or the worst case scenario happens. No funding and city raises taxes.
Going off of the response pasted in here about taking 2015 deposits to secure 2015 dates, my $10 bet is the developer is just running this plan up the flag pole to gauge interest and to begin defining what the clean up of the site will cost. You have to start from somewhere right? Then, and only then, once that cost is known, they can put together an investor package to start circulating and advertising to potential investors. If the state comes back and says you must do X, Y and Z, but you must make sure A Thru W are done to the letter of the EPA, this project will be a very tough sell to investors to keep the lot prices down. In theory, the owner could be screwing themselves by creating this MUD. If the city finds a way to say the property, with required improvements, changes in value from $5.4 Million, to say $15M, they are going to annex it in a new York second so they can tax it as being in the city limits. Instantly causes property taxes to go from about $120k/yr, to something like $375k/yr, and it costs the city practically nothing to do so. Combine this increased tax cost and a failure to raise funds and the Owner has 2 choices. Pay off the note with cash and sit on the property till they can get the cash, or file bankruptcy and hand the keys to the bank. Assuming 48 rented weekends at $18k per weekend is only $864,000 in gross revenue. Take out salaries, insurance, maintenance and Debt costs and they are already losing a ton of money every month....although I think the loan has been drastically restructured if you look at public documents in the last few years.
They don't because it is MAJORLY expensive. Costs of Asphalt have doubled in the last 5 years if not more. costs are comparable to concrete these days. Only reason NOLA was built was because the Owner had the cash to build it. I could be wrong but there was ZERO outside financing on that project so the sky was only limited by his wallet. I heard a rumor that the Owner of NOLA didn't need anyone to rent it ever again and he was happy to spend the money....maybe just interwebz rumerz???!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranav
Cost to replicate TWS on a reasonable budget would be somewhere in the $5 to $7 million dollar range....IF, you get the right parcel of land, for the right price and don't have to do a lot of dirtwork. It might not have covered garages on day 1 but it would be tight. However, with the pool of enthusiasts in this racing/HPDE community, we have the ability to piece that plan together if it is needed.
Sadly, we all need to be coming to grips that one day or the next, TWS will be gone. Enjoy it while we can. Only way it will be saved is if someone can write a $10-12 million dollar check and not shed a tear while writing the next one for about $600,000 to rehab the track, and then write the payroll checks each month while watching your bank account go into the red....forever. Does anyone have a Sugar Daddy?!
I'm worried about where we will race. My brother does M/C tract days and races and they put way more of them on track than they do us. At some point there is not going to be a large enough supply of tracks to run on. For me I would rather run at COTA twice per year but not at anywhere near what they want to charge. I really hope they lose Moto GP and F1 (after the way the grass roots racer has been treated) then they will welcome our money.
JJ
That's the thing about COTA though....they already made back there $3-400 million from the two F1 races and other events there so I guarantee you they can be as picky as they want as their investors are happy and making money now.m
I really hope we can race there again, it really is an amazing track with nice facilities.
Considering how much ol' Bernie charges to have F1 show up I'd be surprised to see them money ahead yet. Revenue =/= profit. Got a financial report or something you can link us to?
Matt - appreciate the insight. Thanks!
I agree. If you can make your money back that fast ol' Bernie would have people putting half a billion dollars in his hand just to get a race weekend. If you could make it back in four or five years. I doubt they have paid all the debts in two years but maybe so. I damn sure don't know anything about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrewmr2
JJ
City Council meeting tonight at 7pm - hope some of y'all that are a bit more local can make it and put some good $0.02 worth in....
So I'm sure everyone knows that they voted to level our favorite track. It's a sad day for Motorsports in Texas. Will and Dave said they will post their thoughts later, interested to see what they have to say. Change is not always bad but this sucks!
No-I didn't know this. So the City approved something I guess. But what has to happen before demolition starts? Any hurdles that have to be cleared?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rsmith350
Not sure of the details but the city council gave it the green light so it's demise is inevitable. The time frame I have no idea. I'm sure Matt will chime in here shortly with more details
There's bound to be a lot of lead in the soil from leaded fuel being used over the years.
A sad day.
JJ
They want to go racing but destroy our track
http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/a....html?mode=jqm
And yes I know A&M had nothing to do with the track tear down