?Knocked the Toe out of One Side-what moved?

When I spun at ECR last year the drivers side tire hit or hooked the curbing pretty hard. It knocked the tire quite a bit toed out. Didn't see anything obvious at the track so just brought the toe in with a tie rod adjustment. Car seemed okay on Sunday. So this week I'm trying to check it out closer but I can't find anything? I can't remember if it bent the swaybar endlink bolt or not right now but I think it did. The control arm bolts didn't move in their alignment slots. Doesn't appear to be a bent control arm or upright. I have spares to compare. I'll pull them off this weekend and may replace the upright just in case. I can replace the upper and lower ball joints. I'll check the control arm bolts and spherical bearings to see if they are bent as well.
The tie rod looks straight and the end feels fine.
There has been a comment that maybe the steering jumped a gear or something. I checked at the steering wheel and it's the same revolutions from left or right. I'm my mind if it jumped on the rail gear it would have been off on both sides? Or is it possible that one side jumped? I thought it all turned off of one rail gear so if it moved then both tires would be turned the same direction?
What else could I check or what might be wrong?

I'll need some help to try and make it in the top 10.

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Originally Posted by BryanL

The control arm bolts didn't move in their alignment slots.

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Are you sure? After the contact I had at TWS I had one loose enough to let it move but hard to see any evidence, including having it on an alignment rack before ECR. Have you put a wrench on all the bolts?

Now he's one deal off.

My bet is on bent or moved lower control arm. Is the rack and tie rods in front of wheel centerline or behind?

Haven't put a wrench on anything other than the tie rod. Control arms are still moved all the way out in the slot to max camber-no evidence of them moving. I'll be taking them off anyway. Curious if one of the bolts or the bearings could be bent. No evidence that the k member has moved any in the bolt holes.

The rack and tie rods are in front of the wheel centerline.

Remember the control arms have two alignment slots, so check the rear vertical slot as well. Does your car have slotted uppers? I've seen plenty of bent uprights that you couldnt see as bent other than by the alignment numbers and relative lower control arm location in their slots.

How easy is it to bend a spindle/knuckle/upright on these cars?

In my driving history I have bent one in a Honda Accord and a Toyota 4runner due to wheel-to-car/curb contact. Points were assessed in each case.

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Originally Posted by Pranav

How easy is it to bend a spindle/knuckle/upright on these cars?

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It's pretty easy...requires absolutely no skill at all.

One sure-fire way of checking for a bent spindle, is after confirming both LCA points are set equal on both sides (max them out temporarily), measure how much space you have between the spindle and the shock. With the long shape our spindles have it can bend inwards and take up that space.

Honestly think it's hard to bend a spindle on curb contact without first having the LCA bolts shove in all the way on the slots first, which you said they didn't?

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Originally Posted by BlueFirePony

It's pretty easy...requires absolutely no skill at all.

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One of the best comments ever!!!

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Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

Now he's one deal off.

My bet is on bent or moved lower control arm. Is the rack and tie rods in front of wheel centerline or behind?

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This would be my guess also. Either the lower control arm moved, the subframe shifted, or the knuckle bent.

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Originally Posted by Al Fernandez

Remember the control arms have two alignment slots, so check the rear vertical slot as well. Does your car have slotted uppers? I've seen plenty of bent uprights that you couldnt see as bent other than by the alignment numbers and relative lower control arm location in their slots.

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Yep.. I have had them bend in my favor to where I could get more camber on one side than the other. These knuckles bend pretty easily.

Pulled the spindle and control arm. All the bolts were tight-nothing has moved or shows evidence of moving. On my garage floor the camber settings were still pretty exact what they were before. Maybe a few decimals off but that could be due to the floor. Still don't see anything that would have caused the drivers side wheel to be toed out an inch or two.
-The upppers don't appear to be slotted any and no evidence that they have moved.
-Spindle and control arm don't show any noticeable difference from the spares I have compared side by side. The spindle does look like it has a slight bend where the tie rod end goes through but nothing that would cause an inch or more of toe out. I stood the spindles upside down and measured the height from the floor to the top of the tie rod hole-there was a difference of 2 mm. So possibly slightly bent or just difference in build tolerances.
-Does anyone know if it's possible for the steering rack to jump over on the gear but would only affect one side? I have never seen the inside of our racks but I don't think this is possible.
-Maybe there is something else bigger that bent and I'm just totally missing it. At this point I'm going to replace the ball joint on the control arm, swap the spindle, then put it all back together. I may slot the k member a little more to see about getting a hair more camber but they are already enlarged.
-I'll max out the camber on the slots as normal to get as much as I can-around -2.0. Set the toe and run it. I'll have my suspension department doing an inspecting at the track.

[QUOTE=BryanL;70837] The spindle does look like it has a slight bend where the tie rod end goes through but nothing that would cause an inch or more of toe out. /QUOTE]

Think of the geometry. You measure toe as the difference in track width between the front and rear of the tires. Large tires - way out away from the spindle. Any small change near the spindle/centerline of the tire is essentially magnified the farther away from the centerline. So a .25 inch movement of the tie rod mount can become an inch of toe change. Other bends of the spindle can cause toe changes as well. Make sure you put a non-damaged spindle back on.

You sure are hard on equipment.

They bend fairly easily. I've bent two and broken one. The last one got bent at Atlanta from contact, which left me with 35* negative camber. Note: new ones from GM have gone way up in price. I paid like $360 for the replacement. They used to be around $180. And Rob is spot on regarding the geometry assessment.

If you guys make Leinart any faster I'll have to buy a Mustang.

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Originally Posted by Fbody383

If you guys make Leinart any faster I'll have to buy a Mustang.

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His car may be faster, but.....

Maybe he just needs a co-driver.

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Originally Posted by Rob Liebbe

His car may be faster, but.....

Maybe he just needs a co-driver.

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I already have a co-driver (and one who weighs about the same). That's why I have you as my Suspension Dynamics Consultant (fancy name but all you get is quality Bud Light).

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Originally Posted by BryanL

I already have a co-driver (and one who weighs about the same). That's why I have you as my Suspension Dynamics Consultant (fancy name but all you get is quality Bud Light).

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I just became unavailable next Saturday.

If you have ruled out, "Being one deal off", then you may want to check the spot welds on the steering rack itself. They can bust easily, especially if you are airborne.

One deal off turned out to be a lower control arm that moved.

I thought you had to be "One deal off" to race CMC in Texas.


JJ

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Originally Posted by ShadowBolt

I thought you had to be "One deal off" to race CMC in Texas.


JJ

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That's why you fit in so well.

Yep