Printable View
I have been talking with Adrian for a couple of years about running an enduro in the Texas area. I would like to gauge interest in this type of event with this group.
There are a few basic items to iron out:
1. Season of year - Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall - pick one
2. Track - pick one
3. Length - 4, 6, 8, 12 - pick one
4. Time of day - morning, afternoon, day into night - pick one
Lets keep it simple for now. There are many other details but these are the basics.
Sounds interesting.
I'd vote for cooler temps just for the driver's sake so October - Feb is my suggestion on timeframe.
For track I'd pick TWS.
Length I'd pick 4 or 6 hour just because I've never done an enduro and have no clue.
Morning probably is cooler, no night time as I'm not sure how many headlights work on my CMC car.
I agree with mike for the most part.
I think track choice would need to factor in length/space in pit road if there were to be multiple drive swaps etc (where do they refuel?).
nope, no headlights here.
I'M IN!!! No particular preferences. I'll let the veterans decide.
Boudy
I'd be interested as well. Mike's comments are all good - on this subject anyway. :D
TWS any length
Under 90F.
All Daylite.
I will accept the 1st invite to team up (as driver).
Beggers can't be choosy.
jb
Definitely TWS just because of the safety afforded while pitting. Long spacious pits and pit lanes would keep folks from being too crowded.
Between Thanksgiving and Christmas for the time frame. It would allow "teams" to take their tired old cars from the previous season and not jeopardize a car's ability to make the season's first race.
6 hours ... 9am to 3pm. No daylight or darkness issues.
This would be fantastic!
I think Mitch has a very good idea. Since I'm planning on rebuilding the motor and tranny between 07 and 08, I'd be intested in blowing up #67 during an enduro... 8)
I've always wanted to do the 25 hour, but since I've never done any race longer than 40 minutes, I didn't know how to start.
Mark me down as interested... regardless of track. I'd prefer daylight. I no longer have provisions for stock headlights.
I agree with Boudy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boudy
i'm in.
TWS
6hr. we've never done one, so start small and get the logistics worked out. make it a 12 the next time.
i vote one of the months NASA does not have a race weekend. but a few weeks after the season ends is good. but w/ a 2 month off season, thats not much time.
Love to see one locally!
For season, has to be fall near or after the end of season - this way it gives drivers time to rebuild broken cars before the next regular season.
Track - I'd like to see something different like Texas MOTOR Speedway - although it does have pros and cons - pros are excellent lighting, pit facilites and safe entry/exit - cons are that it is relatively butal on tires and brake pads? Safety is fine if a chicane is used towards the end of the front straight. Yes I've driven that configuraton both day, night and twilight - it's very doable - right Mitch?
Alternatively, find a small TX city that would welcome an endurance race on a street circuit, and is prepared to foot the bill to configure the circuit in return for the money it will attract to the city each year. Now that would be SWEET!
Length - I don't think you can start small and lengthen it - we would need to pick a length and run with it - I think it needs to be at least 6 and up to 12 - perhaps so something different from the norm and go with 9 hours?
Time of day - definately day into night. To me, this is one of the biggest appeals of endurance racing.
Spring or Fall. Summer's too hot, and late fall,-winter-early spring can be wet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waco Racer
Hallet! :wink:Quote:
2. Track - pick one
Seriously -- I'd like it to be Hallett, since its my favorite track, but since it's been removed from the schedule, I don't see that as being a serious contender.
Perhaps the one in Slidel?
Start with 4 hours and work your way up. If 4 goes well, do 6 the next year, and then 8, 12, 24, then 26.Quote:
3. Length - 4, 6, 8, 12 - pick one
[quote]Keep it simple at first -- an afternoon race. That gives race organizers and teams all morning to prepare, and maybe there can be a small support race ot two in the morning.Quote:
4. Time of day - morning, afternoon, day into night - pick one
As the race gets longer, move the start time and finish time farther apart: 1-5, 11-7...
Keeping in in the daylight hours as long as possible means we can run at a track without lights, and the cars don't need headlights (many of us don't have 'em...)
Spring - Cooler weather for sure, the SCCA runs it's 6 hour in November. I think they also are trying to get a 3 hour established in the early part of the year but don't know for sure. You would want the events to be far enough apart that teams could try to run both events to keep car counts high.
TWS or TMS - I know TMS is $$$ but man I would love to see NASA get to run that track too. The 6 hour used to be at TWS and had ~ 60 car fields. This year they moved it to MSR-H and they had 25 cars. The track matters. I'd bet SCCA moves back to TWS, so NASA should go for the throat and make an event at TMS the place to be every year ;) Nice wide pit lane if nothing else.
6 hours or greater. Maybe ease into it a bit by having a 3 or 4 hour race the first year or two?
Keep it all daylight no matter. Too many cars no longer have headlights. Do practice and qual on Sat and then just make Sunday the race only.
Just from NASA TX's point of view, with a 60 car field with 2 and 3 driver entries for the majority of the teams, it seems like an enduro weekend could be a good money maker for the club.
Jeff
I thought pretty much everyone agreed -- TMS's infield track stunk. That, plus track rental is hidiously expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirtz
Does ANYONE know of any club or grassroots racing at TMS?
Run a daytime-only race at any other track than TMS.
If each driver put some money on the table for spares and the “freshening” of the car as well as some to pool for expendables during the race, it could work easily.
$1000 motor rebuild
$250 tranny
$200 rear end
$350 pads (on full set)
$500 fuel
$1600 tires (2 sets)
$3900 divided by eight drivers
$500 approx per driver
We could take a conglomeration of spare parts, so those technically would be free, unless they needed to be replenished after the race. I would recommend that whatever car is chosen be fitted with ABS. It’s not that it would be used as a crutch since I’ve heard that enduro races are often run at only 70-75% race pace, but just as an insurance policy to preserve the tires in the case of an emergency.
Basically take a CMC car, put ABS and 17” wheels/tires and we’d be set to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshall_mosty
You guys are funny! You are all gang banging one car with 8 drivers! So if you take the 32 cars in the AI/CMC ranks, that leaves 4 cars on the track to compete! I like the idea but start thinking of a 6 hour race with 2 drivers per car and 1.5 hour stints.....NO WAY IN HELL you will get a car count to make a profit or even begin to pay for the track rental. Not to mention I don't know anyone in this group that could drive for 1.5 hours straight...most of us are out of shape to the point where that would be out of the question so figure 6 months getting the driver healty too!!!!
I will gladly sit in the stands though and take video! :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI#97
i think Marshall was refering to the 25hr race.
Matt, NASA licensed driver are not the only one who could drive in it. there are some SCCA guys we could bring in. plus, an enduro would be a differnet classing matrix. so there would be fewer types of class's to pick from putting many different type cars in each class.
IIRC the entry fee per driver for the 25Hours is over $1K.
Lube up.
jb
Oooopps!!! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffburch
The 2006 race was $1095 for the first four drivers and $150 for each additional driver.
http://www.nasa25hour.com/25_Hour_Entry_Info.pdf
8 drivers split would be $211 each... not too bad.
I've always thought a 3-4 hour enduro at MSRFW would be fun. Call it "A day at the ranch." The rental rate for the place would make it possible to run it with 20-30 cars at a very reasonable price to the entrants.
I'm thinking this is more expensive than a full-service night at the Mustang Ranch. Are there usually any mandatory driver swaps? Marshall is suggesting 8 drivers but if all the other teams do it with 4 drivers then they save mucho time in driver swaps (or is that not an issue due to refuelling time required?).
I'm more clueless now than yesterday. No way I'm popping for a grand in entry fees, too rich for my blood. If the fee is 1100 for 4 drivers, that's more like it IMHO. But if the enduro is short, say 4 hours, is it better to do it with only 2 drivers? Much to learn grasshopper, much to learn.
I just threw out 8 drivers for a basic number... I have no clue how many drivers are "typical".
I'd love to do the 25 hour some day, but would like to cut my teeth a little closer to home with guys I race with normally.
Oh really? And your knowledge of this is ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell
This thread is worthless without pics ...
Ahh, memories of a misspent youth. However, I neglected to take any photographs of the activities and as a result have to rely on my spotty recollections to "fill in the blanks". :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchntx
You wouldn't run an event on the infield track - it would have to be the Roval with a chicane on the entry into Nascar turn 1 to keep it safe on the banking.Quote:
Originally Posted by gt40
SCCA races at TMS.
And a daytime only enduro would be boring - just put some headlights in your AI car!
Yep! And mine even still work! Guess it's still a street car with a working ignition key and headlights right?! :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by oz98cobra
I missed this somehow...Quote:
Originally Posted by gt40
I would not go so far as to say it stinks. It is no Walkins Glen or Laguna Seca, but it is a track to race on with super nice pits and paddock. The front straight is faster than TWS if you are into the speed thing. I think the real problem would be the hairpin into the infield, over an enduro length that would chew up brakes big time.
They also have track lighting, but as you said the costs of the track are high and I'm sure turning on the lights does nothing to help that.
My point was to try to find a good track to make it happen. MSR-H didn't draw anyone in. I would think MSR-C would have the same problem. TWS might be taken by SCCA (but if it is not, that would be the best place). Not sure about Hallet or Eagles Ranch.
Jeff
I ran the TMS Roval in my Cobra with the DriversEdge event there in September. This was an invitation only DE that started in daylight and ended at midnight. In 3 x 20 minute sessions, I chewed through half a set of race pads, just over a full tank of gas, and corded a tire.
Having said all that, those 2 sessions were run as fast as I could pedal the old Cobra and I beat the living daylights out of the brakes (had to make sure I got that photo of the rotors glowing orange! ;) ) - so more like a sprint race than an endurance race pace. In a long race, you would use endurance grade pads that would go 3 to 5 hours on that track instead of 1 1/2 to 2, and drive it smooth and consistently as is the norm in endurance racing, not balls to the wall like I was at the DE.
As for tire wear, I'm guestimating ing that a set of shaved toyos on an AI or CMC car would likely last about 3 to 4 hours with proper rotation - which means at least some wheel changes at every major pit stop/driver change - and that would need to be somewhere between every 50 mins to an hour in most AI/CMC cars?
There are 3 hard braking points - into the chicane at turn 1 on the front straight was by far the most brutal - in a CMC car, you'd be braking from around 130ish down to 60, and in an AI car from around 150ish to 60. The other two places were entering the infield, and into the right hander at the end of the straight in the infield. The remaining 2 or 3 braking points are minor in comparison.
Driving that track is an absolute blast with the combo of the banked oval and the infield to break it up - it would be like our own mini daytona 24hr! It is quite safe provided that a chicane is used into Turn 1 to keep the speeds around that banking to sane levels - in that configuration, you are accelerating all the way through both the banked sections of the oval. It is also quite safe at sunset - the sun never presents a visiblily hazard like it can at TWS because the track is all contained inside the stadium, the walls of which shield the sun before it ever gets down to eye level. At nearly 3 miles, it is plenty long enough to handle a large field of cars without becoming too congested. The facilites are of course second to none in this state, and their is ample space for spectators in both the infield and the grandstands - which TWS can no longer provide.
I think a 6 to 9 hour endurance race there with NASA would be an excellent addition to the growing road racing scene here in Texas, and there is no reason why it shouldn't grow into the premier club racing event in the region and if it was timed right, attract a good number of pro race teams to make it all the more interesting for us little guys to enter something like that? Hope it happens soon!
Daron, that was because you were in a Mustang ... :P
I was looking at the schedules for NASA and SCCA for '07. Looks like SCCA is going to run the 6 hour back at MSR-H, at least that is what it said for now.
Interesting option for NASA if they chose to run an enduro event at TWS...
Jeff
I have been contacted by promoter of Houston GP about a "fun" race at the GP in 2007... found out these things take lots of advance planning...Quote:
Originally Posted by oz98cobra
David, what is involved? Is this a "support race" type event for the big race? If so, what are they needing/wanting? Sounds like an opportunity to get AI/CMC some exposure unless I'm missing something obvious?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Love AI27
Under what sanction would this race be run?Quote:
Originally Posted by David Love AI27