How different (if at all) will CMC 17 drive with the welded in cage? If it's different I would not have a clue what to change to get it back. I am going to need a little help with what to change to effect different problems. I hope it just makes it better. Lord knows I need it. I'm no EV! I got my ass handed to me by all of you at TWS back in August.
JJ
work the issue. if its loose, make it less loose. if it pushes, make it more loose.
Jerry, sorting a car means you have to gather data.
Create a baseline and write it down.
Run a set number of laps and gather some data like tire temps and pressures.
Compare the delta between the baseline and the hot temps.
Make a single change. I personally like to make a dramatic change in order to "book-end" the car's handling.
Go run another set of laps, remembering to reduce the variables as much as possible (driver aggressiveness, ambient temps, track temps, humidity, fuel load, traffic, etc.) Remember, you don't have to run at 100%, just be consistent.
And gather more data.
With a single DE weekend, you can gather data from 10-12 lap sets, if you have a helper. If you come to MSR-C to test, call me and I'll take temps and pressures for you.
www.colemanracing.com and www.pitstopusa.com have year end specials on inventory reduction. A set of springs, in a rate and free height you desire, can be had for $60. Also, lightweight aluminum control arms can be had for under $20 and 3/4" shank rod ends can be had for under $20 each.
Just examples of cubic dollars :roll:
To answer your question directly, yes ... chassis flex should be reduced. So, be prepared for a sway bar change to get the car to rotate.
Softer front rate will give the front more bite and help turn in. Stiffer rear rate will help loosen the car on corner exit.
Any sway bar that came on that genre Mustang, whether it be a GT, SVO or six cylinder is legal. Got to find the right combo. I find sway bars on local forums where "kids" buy "cookie cutter" suspension packages and almost give away stock parts ... especially if mom wants the stuff out of the garage.
Make sure your sway bar bushings are in good shape and the end links are so very important. O'Reilly's sells Moog polyurethane end links for under $20. They are the same as the more expensive Energy Suspension jobs. They MUST be equal length and tightened to the same spec each time to give you a consistent preload on the sway bar.
THANKS MITCH!
That is what I was looking for.
JJ
Conversely,
at our legal minimum ride heights, there isn't alot of suspension travel (at least in my platform).
I am of the belief that chassis flex as a whole isn't a bad thing.
Your results may vary.
jb
Jeff,
Have you noted the flex as consistent? I won't disagree that using the body flex as one big sway bar (or tosion bar) is a good thing.
Jerry, it's just a way of using the tools given you in your platform of choice to your advantage.
Irony ....
http://www.camaromustangchallenge.co...ers/varner.htm
See Varner's quote?
You can never stop moving forward. If you do, it's your choice and everyone passes you by.
Dude I don't know you yet.
Listen to what these guys say, memorize it, learn it, live it.
They are really smart and very helpful.
I personally cannot thank them enough.
Do you sell a translation booklet because the only thing I got from that is that I haven't done ANYTHING to tune the handling of my car yet!!!! Wonder what will happen if I ever do!!! :shock: :wink:Originally Posted by mitchntx
Jerry, sorting a car means you have to gather data.
Create a baseline and write it down.
Run a set number of laps and gather some data like tire temps and pressures.
Compare the delta between the baseline and the hot temps.
Make a single change. I personally like to make a dramatic change in order to "book-end" the car's handling.
Go run another set of laps, remembering to reduce the variables as much as possible (driver aggressiveness, ambient temps, track temps, humidity, fuel load, traffic, etc.) Remember, you don't have to run at 100%, just be consistent.
And gather more data.
With a single DE weekend, you can gather data from 10-12 lap sets, if you have a helper. If you come to MSR-C to test, call me and I'll take temps and pressures for you.
www.colemanracing.com and www.pitstopusa.com have year end specials on inventory reduction. A set of springs, in a rate and free height you desire, can be had for $60. Also, lightweight aluminum control arms can be had for under $20 and 3/4" shank rod ends can be had for under $20 each.
Just examples of cubic dollars :roll:
To answer your question directly, yes ... chassis flex should be reduced. So, be prepared for a sway bar change to get the car to rotate.
Softer front rate will give the front more bite and help turn in. Stiffer rear rate will help loosen the car on corner exit.
Any sway bar that came on that genre Mustang, whether it be a GT, SVO or six cylinder is legal. Got to find the right combo. I find sway bars on local forums where "kids" buy "cookie cutter" suspension packages and almost give away stock parts ... especially if mom wants the stuff out of the garage.
Make sure your sway bar bushings are in good shape and the end links are so very important. O'Reilly's sells Moog polyurethane end links for under $20. They are the same as the more expensive Energy Suspension jobs. They MUST be equal length and tightened to the same spec each time to give you a consistent preload on the sway bar.
Ah, fugg it.
Their methodology is good and their heart is certainly in the right place but they don’t have a clue about the specifics of a Mustang (which is understandable).
For front springs from Coleman, the 5” OD x 12” Front Springs will work on the front of the car. Rates from 700 to 1400 are available in 100 lb/in increments. You might have to chop them to get the ride height you want, especially in the higher rates.
For rear springs, neither Coleman Pit Stop have any 5” OD pigtail springs in the correct length. If you convert to conventional or coil-over springs in the stock location (I’ve done both), then they have some selection but it isn’t clear whether or not that’s CMC legal per 8.36.4? You would be looking for a spring in the 8" length range.
There are no CMC Mustang legal control arms available from Coleman so don’t waste brain cycles looking.
For Fox Mustang front sway bars, there are two (V8 and 4 cyl). There is enough difference between the two that they really aren’t useful for tuning. You either set the car up with one or the other. The 4 cylinder bar seems to be the most popular.
There are of course several different front sway bars available for the ’94 to ’04 Mustangs in an excellent variety of stepped rates. The sway bars themselves are even legal for Fox Mustangs but since the attachment of these sway bars to a Fox Mustang would require modifications to the frame you can’t really legally attach them to a Fox. That makes them only useful as strange looking ballast (technically their shape actually violates the ballast rules so you can’t use them for that either). There has been a request to get clarification on the legal attachment of these but nothing has come of it.
For rear sway bars, any of the ’79 to ’04 bars bolt right up. I can tell the difference between running with and without a rear bar but I haven’t been able to realistically tell the difference between the bars. The only real difference is that many of the later bars will break when you run them hard. There are of course no sway bar bushings or end links associated with a Mustang rear sway bar.
Realistically, given the inherent bind of the Mustang rear suspension, voluntarily adding more bind in the form of a sway bar is a bad idea. I’d try to make the car work without it. Try picking a higher rate spring from the excellent variety of rear springs available…
And, to answer your original question, I’ll put $5 on pretty good oversteer with the new cage. Whatever it does, we'll help you get it right. Well, as right as you can get a Mustang... :-)
Richard P.
Yeah...That's what I was going to say, Richard. :wink:
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